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Old April 17, 2008, 07:36 PM   #51
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I agree, though, that the expected result of most shooting is death; expected as it what the shooter invisions as opposed to the likelihood of actual death.
That may be the EXPECTED result, but if so, it is only because people are uninformed.

Regardless, the point is that the prognosis of the attacker should have no bearing on the strategy, only the cessation of the attack should be of interest since that is the legal goal.
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Old April 17, 2008, 09:33 PM   #52
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First, this presumes I have a fairly powerful handgun like my Glock 27 .40 with Winchester T series and not some hard to shoot mouse gun.

If I knew I had hit him real well ('calling the shot' as it's called) then maybe two or three times with a bit of pause after that. If, on the other hand, it happens so fast I can't be sure then I'd shoot till he drops.

Trouble is, it's real easy to shoot 5 or 6 shots a second and it might take you 2 to 3 seconds to even realize the guy is falling. And that's how you hear of cops firing 15 or 20 shots!

This is another reason to carry as powerful a sidearm as you can handle well.
“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides
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Old April 19, 2008, 01:49 AM   #53
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04-15-2008, 09:16 AM #28
JohnKSa wrote:

I think most here would agree "shoot until the threat is stopped" whether that's one or all of the rounds in your piece.
Which would be exactly the correct thing to do.

Here's the point I was trying to make with my earlier post. Booby traps are illegal because they apply deadly force without a human making the decision. The law requires that there be a reasonable human making reasonable decisions operating a deady force tool.

If we program ourselves to always respond exactly the same way to a threat (e.g. draw then fire X shots automatically) then once the engagement begins we become nothing more than a booby trap until our "programmed" shot sequence is over. Certainly we make the decision to draw, but at that point, it's all simply a matter of programming. I don't think that's wise.

Statistics show that over 80% of all self-defense gun uses are successfully resolved by merely showing the gun. What that says to me is if a person programs himself that when he presents his gun he automatically fires, over 80% of the time he will be firing at a person who would have given up without a single shot being fired.

Likewise, another 10% or so of successful self-defense gun uses end after a single shot has been fired whether or not a serious injury has been dealt. If a person automatically fires 2 or 3 shots then clearly at least some of the time they're doing so when they don't need to and therefore shouldn't have.

It's good to practice, it's good to have a plan, but we can't oversimplify to the point that our responses become so automatic that we're not assessing the threat as the situation progresses.

MORE to the point, it's probably not the best idea to publicly announce that if you're forced to use a gun you're automatically going to draw and shoot X shots aimed here and then X shots aimed there, etc. In the unlikely event that you ever do get involved in a deadly force scenario, a statement like that will not back up your assertions that you only used the minimum amount of deadly force required to insure your safety as the law typically requires...
John I usually agree with your posts. However in this situation, I do not want to be on the 20% side, the 10% side, or even 1% side of it being the wrong side of a lethal encounter.

As long as I'm thinking I'm in a lethal encounter I'm shooting (as long as I have rounds to shoot).

I figure the lawyers can figure all the other stuff out, I'm not able to do such an in depth analysis as you post about percentages. Until I'm insured of my safety, I figure it best to keep firing ... no particular pattern, but simply to continue to fire until I've insured myself the threat is no longer there.

Lawyers will do what ever they want, there is no stopping them. However I do not think it a wise use of mental resources to be thinking about that in a lethal situation.

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Old April 23, 2008, 03:14 AM   #54
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Double tap and re-access the situation. If threat is still there shoot again until threat is gone.
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Old April 23, 2008, 07:20 AM   #55
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Double tap and re-access the situation. If threat is still there shoot again until threat is gone.
That used to be the standard rule. It's been discarded because during the time you take the evaluate the threat, the threat (who may or may not have been shot or put out of action) is responding to you.
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