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Old March 13, 2008, 01:55 PM   #1
Join Date: February 18, 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 81
Need advice on suggesting training involving armed individuals

As a member of this forum I feel obligated to instill knowledge and suggest proper behavior when discussing firearms and related security concerns.

As an FIY I am a professor at the State University of NY. Recently the administration at my particular institution distributed suggestions on what to do in an emergency situation, referencing this was being distributed given the recent tragedy at Northern Illinois University.

Their suggestions included:
1. In case of emergency, call Security
2. In case of a fire alarm, evacuate the building immediately.
3. In case of a message through the public address system, follow the
instructions without exception.
4. Sign up for the Alert System.
5. Use the college web sight

You will note (as I did) that they did not in anyway address the tragedy, how to prevent it, or even more important what to do should anyone find themselves in a confrontation with an armed individual. I will not go into the reasons or speculate as to why this occurred.

I would like to suggest to the administration that they consider having training of some sort for security (first and foremost), faculty and administration staff on what they possibly could/should do if unfortunately find themselves in this situation.

I believe this should be in the areas of tactical awareness, incident avoidance, situation diffusion and so on. In a nut shell, most of these individuals who would receive this are not aware that I am a firm proponent of the 2nd amendment and do exercise my rights. Firearm training is not an option this being a state university & there are no firearms allowed. Of course I do follow the law and do not carry where it is not allowed.

Should you have any constructive suggestions regarding what I might suggest do feel free to “shoot” away (pun intended). Please keep this positive and not a rant on universities and their restrictions.

Any specific info on schools or individuals whom offer the training you are suggesting would be appreciated.
Gun control should = Using two hands

Last edited by PJW001; March 13, 2008 at 03:05 PM.
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Old March 13, 2008, 03:45 PM   #2
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Location: Texas
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Given your proximity to New Hampshire, I would put Mas Ayoob at the top of my list for quality, objective information regarding a plan of action/preparedness that you are seeking.

If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.

So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing.
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Old March 14, 2008, 08:30 AM   #3
Scattergun Bob
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My best to you and your problem

I believe you received the best answer first, Jeff not only gave a good answer to your question but a well thought out one. Massad was the first serious instructor that I am aware of to incorporated non-gun thinking into gunfighting techniques.

As a previous staff/faculity member of BSU during the 1980s, I often wondered what would happen if things "went to ****" on campus, RUN LIKE HELL use cover, conceal my intent, was all I ever came up with.

The problem is that anything short of returning fire MINIMIZES rule #1 for me.
"In a gunfight have a gun, within reasonable limits any gun will do."

I am sure that you will receive many other answeres to you request, I feel that Jeff has answered the question.

Best of luck
First, with the most, WINS!
Regards, Scattergun Bob
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Old March 14, 2008, 11:06 AM   #4
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Another thumbs-up for Jeff's post.
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Old March 14, 2008, 11:32 AM   #5
Capt. Charlie
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Jeff's suggestion is a good one, but let's take this one step further. Have you given consideration to a campus safety and awareness course for students? I mean a formal course worth X number of credit hours.

Said course should include techniques for spotting subtle but unusual or suspicious behavior, body language, spotting an armed individual, overall situational awareness, use of cover, escape tactics, etc.

This would fall in line with "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish...."
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Old March 14, 2008, 11:40 AM   #6
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The most important thing is to shake the notion that "it can never happen here." That train of thought more than anything else on the part of the victims, gets people killed. Those who refuse to accept the possibility of such situations leave themselves on autopilot when they occur, not bothering to think for themselves and adapt to the situation.

Ayoob is a good idea. Another is DeBecker.

His book The Gift of Fear is a good analysis of many different types of threats, with valuable space given to rampage killers (your main fear). While he has some definite anti leanings (not for his trained employees mind you...) he is worth taking in for what he can offer. Since even the idea of armed resistance is out of the question with SUNY he may be your best choice.
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Old March 20, 2008, 11:44 AM   #7
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With the rash of school violence, school shootings and murders of so many college students it is in the interest of the college to address the problems first. Alarm systems are great, police on campus is great, survelance cameras are good but they do not prevent incidents nor do they give instructions on what should be done. A mandatory student survival class should be given before anyone starts classes. This would include a written test on the subject.
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Old March 20, 2008, 11:49 AM   #8
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Mas Ayoob

Last I heard, Mr. Ayoob has moved to N Florida. I don't know if he maintains a residence in NH, too.
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Old March 20, 2008, 02:07 PM   #9
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You should propose this, officially I might add, to your Campus safety director. That way, in the future should something happen, it can be noted that at you made an attempt to protect your staff/students.

The responses to various threats are different, and the training should reflect this. Shelter in place, evacuate to a rally point, etc.

Do you have an EOC/COMCIT program?
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