The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 4, 2008, 10:37 AM   #1
tannoa
Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2007
Posts: 26
.45 1911's - Springfield Loaded vs. Taurus PT1911

I've long wanted to get a model 1911, chiefly because I like the aesthetics of the design, the fact that it holds some historical significance in a way that polymer guns simply don't, and because I shot a friend's 1911 and really liked the feel of single action versus the double action only I've become accustomed to with my Kahr, Springfield XD and Glock handguns.

I really am not in a position to spend a ton of dough, but I would rather buy nothing than buy a piece of junk.

The Taurus PT1911 appeals to be because it seems to offer a lot of bang for the buck (pardon the pun). Roughly $600 in stainless.

On the other hand, I have heard very mixed things about Taurus' quality. I have also heard that the resale value of a Taurus may be an issue when I inevitably decide to upgrade to a nicer model down the road.

A friend of mine suggested a Springfield 1911 Loaded model. In stainless that seems to run about $825, or maybe a wee bit more. Features seem to be similar. I have an XD-9 that I love and have never had a problem with, so the Springfield name has some value to me. That being said, I'm not a "label snob," so unless there's some validity to the concerns I mentioned or others that I haven't thought of, the extra $225 might not be worth it.

Anybody have some insight they're willing to share with a 1911 newbie? I have not set a budget for this purchase, but I want to spend as little as I need to since I am not likely to be a good enough shot (yet) to appreciate the difference between a high-end model and something more affordable.

Thanks in advance.
tannoa is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 11:10 AM   #2
Cloudpeak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 2005
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 288
I don't have any experience with the Taurus but, from what I've read, if you have to send it back for repair, it takes awhile for them to return it. It seems their customer service ratings aren't as good as---Springfield Armory (or many other manufactures).

I have two Springfields, a SS 5" Loaded and a LW Champion, and I had to send my LW Champion back. Turn around was quick and they pay shipping both ways. Again, from what I've read on gun forums, Springfield Armory has one of the highest "customer service" ratings of any manufacturer.

Cloudpeak
Cloudpeak is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 11:15 AM   #3
tannoa
Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2007
Posts: 26
Thanks, Cloudpeak. The customer service factor is very important.

I had a problem with a Ruger .22 pistol I bought. I was very frustrated to have a problem right from the start, and disappointed that my gun shop was less than helpful in solving the problem. Ruger did a lot to earn back my confidence by fixing the gun faster than expected, and reimbursing my shipping costs.

Knowing that Springfield has been good to you is something good to know.
tannoa is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 11:32 AM   #4
sholling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 1999
Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California
Posts: 4,261
The Springfield 'Loaded' is a fine pistol and the company has an outstanding reputation for service. A step up in quality (fit, finish & trigger) is the Smith & Wesson SW1911. The good news is that you won't pay any more for the made in the USA S&W over the semi-imported Springer and the purely imported Taurus, and S&W has the best service in the industry.

http://www.gunblast.com/SW1911.htm
__________________
Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, and the Second Amendment Foundation.
Annual Member: Revolutionary War Veterans Association (Project Appleseed) and the Madison Society.
sholling is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 11:35 AM   #5
Technosavant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 4,040
I have both a Springfield Loaded and a Taurus PT1911 AR.

The Springer was my first very own gun purchase, and it had accuracy issues. I sent it back, and 2 months later it returned to me with a new barrel, shorter front sight, and a propensity to drive tacks. The Taurus is my most recent one, and while it was more accurate out of the box, it had light primer strike issues (to my knowledge, this is an extreme rarity; I've not heard somebody else with this issue), and the gun shop had a gunsmith fix it and clean up the trigger.

IMO, the features on the Taurus are better than the SA Loaded, but the SA has better fit and finish. Both are good shooters. As said, Springfield has better customer service, but honestly, if you have any major issues, you're looking at a 2-4 month turnaround from either of them.

They both use quality frame and slide forgings, which are the most important parts of a 1911 as far as reliability goes (IMO). The internals, if they don't work right, can be easily swapped out by a competent 'smith, if not the manufacturer. Really, for me, I'd sooner take my gun to a local gunsmith (he's quite good) and have the sear/hammer/etc. replaced than pay to ship it back to the maker, since I'd spend just a bit more and have a much faster turnaround. The only exception would be if there was a catastrophic failure of the frame or slide.

Both guns are good, and I don't know that I'd have a clear preference between them based on the guns alone. As for customer service, then yes, SA is better.
Technosavant is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 03:05 PM   #6
adk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2002
Location: Kern County mountains, Cal
Posts: 391
Springfield !!
adk is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 03:06 PM   #7
tannoa
Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2007
Posts: 26
Sholling, is your endorsement of the Smith & Wesson based on the fact that it's American-made, or that there are qualitative differences other that that which make it a better choice than either the Springfield or Taurus?

Incidentally, I shot a S&W 1911 a few weeks ago and loved it, but my research suggested that it was a fair amount more money for a gun with roughly the same features as the lesser-priced alternatives.

If the S&W has different and better features (which is a sure possibility), that's good since I know I like that particular model, but my concern is that it is a few hundred dollars more than the Taurus and somewhat pricier than the Springfield.
tannoa is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 03:07 PM   #8
YukonKid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: NW
Posts: 744
i would go springfield. It seems to be a better weapon.
__________________
This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill
Fifteen percent concentrated power of will
Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain
And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!
YukonKid is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 03:10 PM   #9
tannoa
Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2007
Posts: 26
Quote:
i would go springfield. It seems to be a better weapon.
But is it better by $200+ dollars?
tannoa is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 03:24 PM   #10
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
I would definitely go with the Springfield.

I own the Loaded Champion and it is awesome.
Range report on Loaded Champion

I have shot the Taurus and feel it is probably a good gun for the money but I question Taurus' long run quality and I know their customer service sucks. I have also heard multiple issues with light primer strikes, bulging cases, and trigger issues (not just from the net but from local dealers and owners).

I would definitely say the PT1911 is worth a shot but if you can afford the extra $200 go with the Springfield. It is not only a high quality item with a great list of features (including a ramped bull barrel, night sights, cocobolo grips, ambi-safety, full length guide rod, and more) but it is the best shooting and best looking 1911 I have ever had the honor of shooting.

Playboypenguin is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 03:37 PM   #11
tannoa
Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2007
Posts: 26
Quote:
...it is the best shooting and best looking 1911 I have ever had the honor of shooting.
I haven't shot one, but I'd have to agree about the great looks. The only issue for me is the extra cost.

The Champion is the 4" barrel, right? If so, why did you go for that versus the 5"? I don't plan to carry this one at all, so the extra size is not an issue for me.

Just curiuous. Thanks again
tannoa is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 03:42 PM   #12
Auto426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,323
I'm new here, but in the month or so I've been reading over these boards, I've picked up a lot.

From what I can gather from these boards, the Taurus PT1911 is a decent handgun. It seems to be one of the finest products Taurus is currently making.

I myself have been looking into getting a 1911, mostly for the same reasons you listed, and I think I have pretty much settled on a Springfield, since they seem to be quality pieces and are cheaper compared to most competitors.

May I suggest you look into the Mil-spec line of Springfields instead of the Loaded models:



They don't have as many features (no extended trigger, beavertail safety, novak/adjustable target sights, ambidextrous thumb safety, flat mainspring housing, full length guide rod), but the internals are the same with the beveled magazine well, polished feedramp, throated barrel, and lowered and flared ejection port, which should make for a very reliable pistol.

Since it's your first 1911, starting with a more basic 1911 and learning to handle it properly would be a good idea. There is always time in the future to upgrade to higher end models. The Mil-Specs can also be had for considerably less than the Loaded's: the parkerized version in the the $560-$600 range and the stainless version is in the $660-$680 range.
Auto426 is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 03:46 PM   #13
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Quote:
The Champion is the 4" barrel, right? If so, why did you go for that versus the 5"? I don't plan to carry this one at all, so the extra size is not an issue for me.
I do not plan to carry mine either. I have the 3" ParaOrd Slim Hawg for that.

I just felt the 4" version pointed better, was more perfectly balanced, and had a better overall feel and look to it.

I have a 5" Springfield also but the 4" is just better for me.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 04:10 PM   #14
tannoa
Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2007
Posts: 26
Quote:
I do not plan to carry mine either. I have the 3" ParaOrd Slim Hawg for that.

I just felt the 4" version pointed better, was more perfectly balanced, and had a better overall feel and look to it.

I have a 5" Springfield also but the 4" is just better for me.
Fair enough. Thanks again for the insight.
tannoa is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 04:13 PM   #15
shepherddogs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2007
Posts: 1,007
If Sholling is right and the S&W is anywhere close in price, I'd take it over Taurus or Springfield in a flash. There is no better customer service than S&W and their guns are superb.
shepherddogs is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 08:50 PM   #16
sholling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 1999
Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California
Posts: 4,261
Quote:
Sholling, is your endorsement of the Smith & Wesson based on the fact that it's American-made, or that there are qualitative differences other that that which make it a better choice than either the Springfield or Taurus?
Not at all. The made in USA is just a plus to me. The endorsement is based on my experience spending months shopping and comparing the S&W and the Springer. Each time that I handled them side by side I was impressed by the superior fit and finish of the Smith. I also prefer the Smith's undercut trigger guard which lets it sit a tiny bit lower in the hand.

The trigger is a more personal choice. I personally like a 3-4lb trigger on a target pistol and a 4.5-6lb trigger on a pistol intended primarily for self defense. Thats just me. Based solely on an educated finger I'd SWAG the triggers of the base model S&Ws that I fondled at around 3.5-4.5lbs and the Springer Loadeds at close to 6lbs. Both are fine pistols! The Smith is just a bit more refined. By the way I own both a Springer - just not the loaded, and a Smith - just not the base model.

We can't get the Taurus here. I based that part of my recommendation solely on service. You said that service was important to you. The S&W has a lifetime no bull warranty. S&W pays for shipping both ways and fix most issues in 1-2 weeks. I would personally consider the Taurus if and only if I approached the purchase assuming that it had NO warranty. That's because of Taurus' horrible reputation for service. You pay shipping to Taurus and according to the horror stories, wait 2-6+ months. Replacing the sight has historically been another issue. Once again this Taurus stuff is all second hand info. If you can accept the Taurus on those terms then it's not a bad deal.

Quote:
If the S&W has different and better features (which is a sure possibility), that's good since I know I like that particular model, but my concern is that it is a few hundred dollars more than the Taurus and somewhat pricier than the Springfield.
Riiiiinnnngggg - Price check on isle 3...

If you have a friendly local FFL to handle the transfer for you then check Bud's. Most charge $20-50. ***Note*** S&W no longer puts that HUGE SW1911 on the slides!
SW1911 blued w/combat sights $750 delivered
SW1911 stainless w/combat sights $750 delivered
SW1911 blued w/adjustable target sights $800 delivered
SW1911 stainless w/adjustable target sights $820 delivered
Bud's full list of SW1911s.
Bud's prices for Springers...

A second source would be Davidson's.
__________________
Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, and the Second Amendment Foundation.
Annual Member: Revolutionary War Veterans Association (Project Appleseed) and the Madison Society.
sholling is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 10:43 PM   #17
solz56
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Location: California
Posts: 503
You can not go wrong with a Springfield. My Trophy match in various dress and with my HK:











Fit and finish are fine and tight. It has never had a FTF. It is a sweet shooter.

I've never shot a S&W, but they look to be excellent from close inspection. I have never seen the Taurus up close.
__________________
H&K P2000SK 9mm
H&K P7M8 9mm
Springfield 1911 Loaded Trophy Match .45
Colt 1911 Gov't .45
solz56 is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 10:55 PM   #18
gopack
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 26, 2006
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 302
I've never fired the loaded Springfield, but have fired the Mil-Spec. It is a nice, well-made pistol. Shoots well. Trigger is a bit sloppy, but nothing serious. I own a Taurus PT1911. I've been very pleased with the pistol. The only thing I wanted to change was the grips. I think the Taurus ad listing the "upgrades" standard on the Taurus comes close to hitting the mark. As for the long-standing tradition of bad-mouthing Taurus quality, I frankly haven't seen any problems. The PT1911 is well worth considering.
gopack is offline  
Old February 4, 2008, 11:20 PM   #19
solz56
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Location: California
Posts: 503
Quote:
I've never fired the loaded Springfield, but have fired the Mil-Spec. It is a nice, well-made pistol. Shoots well. Trigger is a bit sloppy, but nothing serious
I'm no expert, but my Trophy Match feels the opposite of sloppy. It is tight and trigger pull is light and constant.
__________________
H&K P2000SK 9mm
H&K P7M8 9mm
Springfield 1911 Loaded Trophy Match .45
Colt 1911 Gov't .45
solz56 is offline  
Old February 5, 2008, 03:03 AM   #20
sholling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 1999
Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California
Posts: 4,261
solz56,
Quote:
I'm no expert, but my Trophy Match feels the opposite of sloppy.
Sweet Trophy Match my friend... but we were comparing $600-800 base models. The basic Smith and the basic Springer Loaded. Now you're dragging the upscale toys into the game. But just for fun let's see how they did in a shoot-off.

That's a beautiful Trophy Match my friend. Here be my little toy...
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/DSCF0522.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/PC1911NS.jpg
__________________
Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, and the Second Amendment Foundation.
Annual Member: Revolutionary War Veterans Association (Project Appleseed) and the Madison Society.
sholling is offline  
Old February 5, 2008, 03:17 AM   #21
Sturmgewehre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,212
You guys and your Brazilian finished guns... I much prefer the NM prefix on my Springers.





__________________
Visit my YouTube channel for reviews, tests and more.
Ex Mea Sententia
Sturmgewehre is offline  
Old February 5, 2008, 03:19 AM   #22
Father Time
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2007
Posts: 637
Havn't shot one yet but a friend of mine loves his Taurus 1911. After trading his glock .45 for it he says he's much happier.
Father Time is offline  
Old February 5, 2008, 03:21 AM   #23
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Quote:
I much prefer the NM prefix on my Springers.
Nertz to that. My Brazilian made ones are assembled by conscientious workers who pay great attention to detail for fear of having their homes burned to the ground and their wives raped if they displease their superiors.

Your American assembled ones are put together by fat, bugger eating teamsters who try to assemble guns quickly between trips to the break room to watch Dr. Phil.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old February 5, 2008, 07:08 AM   #24
ranburr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 17, 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 1,278
Good Brazilians make Springers. Bad Brazilians make that other gun.
__________________
ranburr
"There are no stupid questions, just stupid people asking questions".
ranburr is offline  
Old February 5, 2008, 02:25 PM   #25
tannoa
Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 2007
Posts: 26
Quote:
If Sholling is right and the S&W is anywhere close in price, I'd take it over Taurus or Springfield in a flash. There is no better customer service than S&W and their guns are superb.
Turns out Sholling is right, and it's even better:

S&W has a $100 rebate right now, so it looks like I can actually get the S&W 1911 in stainless for even less than the Springfield Loaded or Taurus PT1911.

This whole 1911 idea came to me after shooting a buddy's S&W 1911, but I thought they were out of reach pricewise. Turns out I was just plain wrong (though as far as my wife is concerned, I'm never wrong.)
tannoa is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2020 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10239 seconds with 7 queries