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Old April 16, 2007, 07:07 PM   #1
sar
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Vt Shooter a Chinese National on Student Visa?

Gunman kills 32 at Virginia Tech before being killed
(http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/...041607.article)

April 16, 2007

BY MICHAEL SNEED Sun-Times Columnist
Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.


The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.


Police believe three bomb threats on the campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus’ security response, the source said.


The exits to the buildings where the shootings occurred were chained by the shooter, the source said.


Students complained that there were no public address announcements or other warnings on campus after the first burst of gunfire. They said the first word they received from the university was an e-mail more than two hours into the rampage — around the time the gunman struck again.


Virginia Tech President Charles Steger said authorities believed the shooting at the dorm was a domestic dispute and mistakenly thought the gunman had fled the campus.


‘‘We had no reason to suspect any other incident was going to occur,’’ he said.

He defended the university’s handling of the tragedy: ‘‘We can only make decisions based on the information you had on the time. You don’t have hours to reflect on it.’’


Steger said the university decided to rely on e-mail and other electronic means of notifying members of the university, but with 11,000 people driving onto campus first thing in the morning, it was difficult to get the word out to everyone.


Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum would not say how many weapons the gunman carried. But a law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation was incomplete, said that the gunman had two pistols and multiple clips of ammunition.
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Old April 16, 2007, 07:48 PM   #2
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Michael Savage was wondering why the school administration said they knew the shooting was grounded in a dmoestic violence dispute, but could not (or would not) identify the shooter. If they had prints, they could identify the shooter in 5 mins. UNLESS (says Savage) the shooter is a foreign national...
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Old April 16, 2007, 07:52 PM   #3
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If he was in fact a foreign national, then that would mean that he got his pistols illegally, correct?
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Old April 16, 2007, 07:56 PM   #4
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If he was in fact a foreign national, then that would mean that he got his pistols illegally, correct?
Is it illegal for foreign nationals to own guns?

But from what I've heard now the serial numbers had been destroyed, so it's probably a safe bet they were illegal.
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Old April 16, 2007, 11:45 PM   #5
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Re the shooter being a fireign national here on a student visa, have those wonderful folks at the State Department blown it again?
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Old April 17, 2007, 01:39 AM   #6
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Re the shooter being a fireign national here on a student visa, have those wonderful folks at the State Department blown it again?
I don't think that's the case.

On a positive, I was listening to progressive radio, and the nationality was one of the topics that the host predicted would be discussed by the sheep MSM and that IT DIDN'T MATTER. Also included was a very basic discussion of what semi-automatic, automatic, machine gun, submachine gun, etc MEANT and how this event shouldn't be used to ban assault weapons etc, and that the "one thing you can point to the current administration and agree with was the lapse of the AWB."

Hey, it's a start.
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Old April 17, 2007, 03:10 AM   #7
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JuanCarlos wondered:
Quote:
Is it illegal for foreign nationals to own guns?
I am a foreign national, and the answer is (predictably): it depends.

Federal law prohibits the possession of firearms by foreign nationals on US soil on a non-immigrant visa. If the shooter was in the US on a student visa, he would not have been legally permitted to possess a firearm. Federal law is silent when it comes to foreign nationals who are applying for, or have, permanent resident status (like myself). Then it comes down to state law, which varies widely. In New York state, foreign nationals are forbidden from possessing any deadly weapon. In Washington state, foreign nationals are required to get an Alien Firearms License (I know, it sounds like a permit for a Klingon disruptor) but are not otherwise subject to any special restrictions. Oregon and (I think) Virginia do not place any restrictions on foreign nationals.

But frankly, I'm skeptical about this; the identity of the shooter is not yet public knowledge, the so-called source is completely unidentified, speculation is running rampant anyway, and it doesn't really make sense that a Chinese national, upon being given the chance to attend an American institute of higher learning, would throw it all away in a spree killing with a pair of illegally acquired handguns. Insofar as any Chinese national wants to hurt America, or Americans, they're more likely to seek to do it by economic growth.
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Old April 17, 2007, 03:20 AM   #8
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But frankly, I'm skeptical about this; the identity of the shooter is not yet public knowledge, the so-called source is completely unidentified, speculation is running rampant anyway, and it doesn't really make sense that a Chinese national, upon being given the chance to attend an American institute of higher learning, would throw it all away in a spree killing with a pair of illegally acquired handguns. Insofar as any Chinese national wants to hurt America, or Americans, they're more likely to seek to do it by economic growth.
Thanks for the info, by the way.

It makes sense if said Chinese national found himself in an emotionally unstable situation (for whatever reason) and decided that suicide was a viable option. It's just that at that point his status as a Chinese national has nothing whatsoever to do with the shootings; it could just as easily been a native-born citizen.

But yeah, considering the sketchy details still emerging and the unverified nature of the information I'd not be surprised to find out it's just complete BS anyway.
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Old April 17, 2007, 09:35 AM   #9
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It makes no difference. Most shooters before this have been citizens. So what causal inference or predictive value does this have?

None - however, it does bring some of the folks who like to talk about immigration or race to the fore. :barf:
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Old April 17, 2007, 10:23 AM   #10
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The fact that he is Chinese makes no difference. The fact (if it is so) that he was not legally allowed to possess firearms is huge. That means that a law which would have kept a firearm out of his hands was broken, and by extension, laws cannot protect against people who are nuts.

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Old April 17, 2007, 10:33 AM   #11
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He was a south korean here on a green card.
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Old April 17, 2007, 10:38 AM   #12
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He was a south korean here on a green card.
Affirmative.

MSNBC says that he came over with his parents, and has been in country for about 14 years. They also mentioned that one of the handguns was a legally purchased Glock 9mm, exact make unknown.

Also noted on the MSNBC website, other nations are now jumping on the criticism bandwagon.
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Old April 17, 2007, 10:56 AM   #13
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Ick, I posted this to the rosie thread by mistake.

According to sharpshooter at black-rifles.com (currently down, unknown why other than that someone yanked its dns entry) last night:

Perp is one Mr. Cho.
Shooter used a Walther P22 and Glock 19.
Glock 19 purchased at sharpshooter's shop in March (March 12 +- a day).
Receipt was found in Mr. Cho's pocket.
Serial number was filed off of the Glock 19.
During the ATF visit that (Monday) evening, all of Cho's paperwork (4473) was in order. He had proof of residency [comment: a VA DL I suppose], checkbook [secondary ID], and a green card.

(sharpshooter's profile said he lived in Roanoke, VA, had ~258 posts, and was a member since August 21, 2005)
The link, if it worked, would be http://www.black-rifles.com/forums/i...ic=19283&st=40

Further news articles indicate:

The earlier dorm shooting has been (tentatively?) ballistically linked to one of the guns found on (near?) Cho after the later rampage.
The receipt was actually in his backpack, not his pocket.
Cho Seung-Hui was 23, a native of South Korea, lived in campus, and was a senior majoring in English.
Cho was a permanent resident according to an anonymous state-department source.
The serial numbers on both guns were filed off.
Cho's fingerprints were found on both guns.
The two shootings were approximately 7:15AM and 9:15AM.
An email announcement about the first shooting went out at approximately 9:26AM.

http://news.bostonherald.com/nationa...ticleid=195231
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Old April 17, 2007, 10:59 AM   #14
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I asked this on a thread I started.

Can his status as resident alien allow him to legally purchase a handgun?

Sorry, I did not read enough. Some of the above answers address this question.
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Old April 17, 2007, 11:08 AM   #15
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I thought he was South Korean, 23 and been in the U.S. since 1992 or 93 when he was 8 years old not Chinese, 24 and arrived last year. FOX news has been reporting the former.

Quote:
They also mentioned that one of the handguns was a legally purchased Glock 9mm, exact make unknown.
They keep saying 9mm Glock on the news, but showing pictures of the handguns that were used in the shootings and they are a 9mm Sig Sauer P226 along with a .22 somethingorother. Which one is it a Glock or a Sig?
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Old April 17, 2007, 11:12 AM   #16
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The black rifles link does not seem to work, have they shut down the site because of this?
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Old April 17, 2007, 11:12 AM   #17
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madmag, yes.

Doug, this seems to be one of those cases where FOX news was fair, balanced, and wrong. (oops, scratch that, I misread). Another news site has a graphic with an HK USP. They don't seem to care, beyond having a graphic with a gun.
http://www.waow.com/News/index.php?ID=10811

Boone, on second thought black-rifles.com was _really_ slow last night. I suspect the forum might have been overloaded with traffic, and was voluntarily disabled due to that. Here's a copy of a page of the discussion, though: http://www.thefiringline.com/library...es-disc-p3.pdf
When the site goes back up, I'll remove the link.
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Old April 17, 2007, 11:20 AM   #18
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Wrong about it being a Glock or wrong about it being a Sig? Fox isn't showing a graphic, they are showing photographs and saying "these are the two guns used in the shootings" but IDing the 9mm as a Glock (wrong) And the perpetrator's full name was Cho Seung-Hui apparently the police found a note from him with a rants against "rich kids" and debauchery. Described as a loner on campus
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Old April 17, 2007, 11:25 AM   #19
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MSNBC says that he came over with his parents, and has been in country for about 14 years. They also mentioned that one of the handguns was a legally purchased Glock 9mm, exact make unknown.
A Glock but exact make unknown! I ASSUME they are mixing guns 1 and 2 since a Glock is probably a Glock.

But, make doesn't matter to those shot. Obviuosly, the guy was stressed out and unstable, but planned well. Two pistols, extra mags, chained doors, .... Maybe too much pressure to excel?

If this is true
Quote:
The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai
makess one wonder who he was in contact with elsewhere.

In any case, tehre will be a cry against all semi's. Not that revolvers would not have his choice if semi's unavailable.
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Old April 17, 2007, 11:36 AM   #20
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A rant about debauchery? Lovely.
I misread your FOX comments. fixed mine. By "the former" I thought you meant "what news reporters formerly said." Oops.

Where did news reporters initially get that the guy was Chinese and entered on a student visa in August? That was what everyone seemed to think yesterday afternoon/evening, as demonstrated by the first post.

William, it seems established at this point that the perp was from South Korea, and was a long-time permanent resident with a green card.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cho_Seung-hui
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Old April 17, 2007, 11:50 AM   #21
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Where did news reporters initially get that the guy was Chinese and entered on a student visa in August? That was what everyone seemed to think yesterday afternoon/evening.
They knew he was an oriental man yesterday, some people use Chinese and oriental or Asian interchangeably because an oriental man is most likely to be chinese because they have the largest country and population of east asia and, I think, have the highest percentage in the United States. Just like some people use Mexican and Hispanic interchangeably. I guess him being Chinese just got thrown around so much on the news and net that it temporarily stuck.

Guess when most people think 9mm, they think Glock since Glock is the most prominant 9mm handgun used today in the United States and that, by the same token, stuck. If those pictures shown by FOX are truly the pictures of THE guns used, then it WAS a Sig P226
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Old April 17, 2007, 02:41 PM   #22
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Actually, I have seen Glock, Sig, and Berettas shown on TV as examples of 9mm guns, but at this point, it was definitely a Glock, one was anyway, as the found the receipt and the fact that he purchased the gun a little over a month ago as a legal resident alien with no felonies...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/..._tech_shooting
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Old April 17, 2007, 07:56 PM   #23
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Well, I knew they found the receipt for the Glock, but the picture they show of the 9mm gun used was a Sig P226. I am wondering if he recently bought a Glock, already owned a Sig 226 and used it for the massacre leaving the glock at home.

The media, hearing they found a Glock receipt, assumed it was a Glock handgun and has been spreading that and posting pictures of the actual gun assuming it's a Glock out of ignorance (since the average leftist reporter probably knows next to nothing about guns)
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Old April 17, 2007, 10:51 PM   #24
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Seems as if the shooter was Korean, and had been in the U.S. since early 1990's, when he was age 8 or thereabouts.


Another point of interest. Some Television Network "news shows", Fox if I read correctly, described one handgun as 22 millimeter, rather than 22 caliber. Anyone at all familiar with the metric system would know that 22mm was very near to 1 inch in diameter, which would make for one hellish large handgun.

As I've mentioned in a post elsewhere, most media types do not know the breach end of a firearm from the muzzle end, and neither, it seems do the clowns that write the scripts for those talking heads.
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Old April 18, 2007, 08:19 AM   #25
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Quote:
Well, I knew they found the receipt for the Glock, but the picture they show of the 9mm gun used was a Sig P226. I am wondering if he recently bought a Glock, already owned a Sig 226 and used it for the massacre leaving the glock at home.

The media, hearing they found a Glock receipt, assumed it was a Glock handgun and has been spreading that and posting pictures of the actual gun assuming it's a Glock out of ignorance (since the average leftist reporter probably knows next to nothing about guns)
Doug, so you are reasoning that you think the guy has a Sig because you saw a Sig shown on TV by reporters, but think that the media is jumping to the conclusion that the gun used was a Glock because there was a Glock recept found and note that the average reporter knows next to nothing about guns. If you think the reporters know so little about guns, then why would you believe that the Sig shown on TV is the gun used in the crime and NOT the Glock? How is it you think that the reporters got the gun type correct in the picture shown of the Sig, but fouled up the information on the Glock? Why are you hung up on the Sig issue? Like I said, they also have showed a Beretta. Hell, I even saw one broadcast naming the guns as 9mm and .22 caliber and they showed a Glock and Sig.

Doug, neither the Sig or the Beretta shown on TV had anything to do with the shooting incident. Those were simply prop images used by the media. There was no Sig found with the shooter (at least not reported). The two guns reported are a Glock 19 and Walther P22, the Walther being purchased in the last week, at least 30 days AFTER the purchase of the Glock as per state law.
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