Is "Zumbo'ed" now official pro-2a vernacular?

Haterade · March 2, 2007, 11:32 PM

I dunno if it's OK if I even post this.

I've seen it twice on this board and about half a dozen other times on other boards I frequent. I think I even used it once without thinking.

Zumbo'ed (Zum-bo-d) V. To put your foot in your mouth in regards to 2nd amendment issues. To split the issue into two separate groups, unknowingly or not.

I'm not too sure if this is a good trend. Should we single out one of our own as a synonym for "Fudds" when we have so many other people totally, and 100% against us? Why can't we "Clinton" it? Seems like our most recent catch-phrase looks worse when we say it about one of our (kind of) own.

I dunno.. I'm guilty of thinking/saying it myself. Seems to be taking off though. Not sure I like where it's heading...

rhgunguy · March 2, 2007, 11:42 PM

I was as po'ed as anyone when I read about his comments. Since then, i have read some things on Ted Nugent's board. The Nuge re-educated Zumbo, and even invited him on a hunt with ARs. Zumbo, accepted and has even become a member on the Nuge's board. He has issued a full appology and is asking for NO pity. He has stated that it is now his goal to educate the sportsmen among us that would not care if assault rifles got banned, much as the Nuge educated him.

Furthermore he and Nugent are going to appear at the NRA banquet where Zumbo will publicly appologize.

The guy has paid enough for what he said. He is making ammends. Props to him for standing up and doing the right thing after the fact and repairing the damage he did.

mvpel · March 2, 2007, 11:50 PM

That's very reassuring to hear.

His comments were extremely offensive, but I'm glad to hear he's seen the light. Ted Nugent deserves our congratulations and thanks.

rhgunguy · March 3, 2007, 12:03 AM

The Nuge deserves more than that. He needs some help from us true belivers. I just read on his site that DPMS is getting hammered by people that want them to end their relationship with Ted because of his stand on Zumbo. How people can see Ted's actions as a bad thing is beyond me, but there you have it.

I plan on calling them on the start of buisness Monday and tell them that I had planned on buying an AR-10 from them, but it could just as easily come from RRA if they drop the Nuge.

Monkeyleg · March 3, 2007, 12:24 AM

Horsehockey.

How many times have people been suckered in by lame apologies by politicians and celebrities?

I haven't waded into the Zumbo discussions on this or other forums because I thought what he said was obvious.

The guy has been around the block, knows guns, and must certainly know the difference between a Remington 7400 and an AR.

The fact that he got Ted Nugent to help him out suggests personal relationships, not ideology. I don't see much difference between this conversion, and former NOW president Patricia Ireland giving Bill Clinton a pass.

The gun community needs unity. Guys like Zumbo just feed on the anti's efforts to divide our community. Yes, I know that's been said 100,000 times in the last couple of weeks, but it's still the truth.

Does anyone for a single second think that--if Remington had not dropped his sponsorship, if Cabela's had not dropped his sponsorship, if Outdoor Life had not canned him--he would now feel differently about Evil Black Rifles?

I've come to know many Second Amendment fighters over the years. Some of them have slept in their cars overnight, after trying to talk to the Zumbo's at various gun clubs. They had no sponsors to put them up in nice hotels.

When Zumbo issues a real apology, I'll know it, just as I know art or pornography when I see it.

As for Ted Nugent, he's not exactly high on my list of Second Amendment supporters, either. We had a fund-raising banquet here in WI last July. I contacted Nugent's staff, and was told that he required $25,000 to $35,000 for a single speech.

Our goal was to raise money to help defeat anti-gun Governor Jim Doyle.

Massad Ayoob spoke to our banquet at no charge.

rhgunguy · March 3, 2007, 12:40 AM

So, you have never made a mistake before?

I am sure that losing sponsorship had a great deal to do with Zumbo re-evaluating his position, but Nugent invited Zumbo to talk.

Nugent does a ton for not only the firearms community, but also for other conservative values. I seriously doubt that the contribution was that high. Perhaps a tenth that, after all the guy has got to eat.

Monkeyleg · March 3, 2007, 05:02 AM

rhgunguy, I've made so many mistakes that I've lost count.

"I am sure that losing sponsorship had a great deal to do with Zumbo re-evaluating his position, but Nugent invited Zumbo to talk."

Yeah, having your career go down in flames, the only career you've known, pretty much the only source of income you have...that will cause you to re-evaluate your position.

Unless, of course, your position is so well-staked that you can't wriggle out of it.

"Nugent does a ton for not only the firearms community, but also for other conservative values. I seriously doubt that the contribution was that high. Perhaps a tenth that, after all the guy has got to eat."

What contribution, and how high? We were hosting a fund-raising banquet for our political action commitee, the WCCM. Any monkey with a keyboard could access our PAC's contribution records for the past 5+ years and see what we've been doing.

The banquet was to raise as much money as possible for gubernatorial candidate Mark Green, as well as senate and assembly candidates who were solidly behind the CCW bill.

I made several efforts to contact Ted Nugent, and to see if he would recognize the cause, and perhaps adjust his speaking fees accordingly.

I also suggested that we schedule our fund-raising banquet sometime around the NRA's national convention here in Milwaukee, so that his travel and hotel schedule wouldn't be inconvenienced.

I talked to his staff over and over. And got the same answer: $25,000 to $35,000.

I saw Nugent at the May NRA convention here. I wanted to go up and slap him.

Not because he's trying to make a few bucks. I never begrudge anyone for trying to make money.

I was ticked off because Ted Nugent claims to be some champion of Second Amendment rights. If he had been true to his claims, and had just appeared for one hour at our banquet (an hour's flight from his home), we could have raised ten times the money we did for pro-gun candidates.

Instead, we were told that he would require $25,000 to $35,000 for the speech, first-class airline seats, and a five-star hotel.

I'll trade you one Massad Ayoob for five Ted Nugents any day of the week.

At the very least, Massad knows better than to curse when interviewed.

And I very much doubt that Massad would have ever written, much less sang, a song such as "Cat Scratch Fever."

**Mike Irwin** · March 3, 2007, 11:45 AM

Words are cheap. So far all we have from Mr. Zumbo are words, words that don't really convince me of the level or nature of his "contritition."

Until I see actual, measurable actions from him, and NOT just in the "hey, these guns are hunting guns" but in the "this is a Second Amendment rights issue, the same as with ALL firearms," then I'm going to be a lot more forgiving.

So far, though, everything I've seen leads me to believe that Mr. Zumbo is as ignorant of the Second Amendment and its protections today as he was 6 weeks ago.

Sarge · March 3, 2007, 12:34 PM

Amen, Mike. Zumbo isn't some naive little school kid who pulled a boner in front of the microphone, at the Christmas Cantata. He understood his audience and he knew how to play to them. He knew, through decades in the game, the sphere of influence he commanded- and he used that influence in a blatant attempt to divide us on the second amendment.

Zumbo didn't "make a mistake"- he stabbed us in the back.

Does anyone here think for a minute that he would have retracted & reversed his position, if the outcry from the masses had been in favor of his ‘sporting purpose’ litmus test for hunting implements- instead of against it? I think not. Like Clinton’s “blue dress”, Jim Zumbo’s blog of February 16 was the irrefutable evidence of where this man’s priorities lie. In Zumbo’s case- they lie with the enemy.

No quarter for treason.

http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/

Number 6 · March 3, 2007, 06:31 PM

If "Zumbo'd" means "self-destructed," the term is apt.

His column was an act of self-immolation and the ensuing consequences were neither unforeseeable nor undeserved.

The issue now is whether he has truly "gotten it" or remains a mere Fudd - albeit a severely chastened one.

Bogie · March 3, 2007, 11:06 PM

The real question at hand is how we can use the situation to our advantage. Zumbo was a symptom of a greater disease - the rifts that exist within the gun culture. Deer hunters don't care about duck hunters don't care about turkey hunters don't care about quail hunters don't care about target plinkers don't care about practical pistol shooters don't care about defense shooters don't care about gun collectors don't care about machinegunners don't care about silhouette shooters don't care about benchrest shooters don't care about IDPA shooters don't care about smallbore silhouette shooters don't care about bullseye shooters don't care about skeet shooters don't care about trap shooters don't care about sporting clays shooters don't care about tactical match shooters don't care about granny who has a hogleg next to the bedstand, and she don't like anything, because she saw on TV that they're all crooks.

Any ideas on how to fix this?

March 2, 2007, 11:32 PM	#1
Haterade Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2006 Posts: 191	Is "Zumbo'ed" now official pro-2a vernacular? I dunno if it's OK if I even post this. I've seen it twice on this board and about half a dozen other times on other boards I frequent. I think I even used it once without thinking. Zumbo'ed (Zum-bo-d) V. To put your foot in your mouth in regards to 2nd amendment issues. To split the issue into two separate groups, unknowingly or not. I'm not too sure if this is a good trend. Should we single out one of our own as a synonym for "Fudds" when we have so many other people totally, and 100% against us? Why can't we "Clinton" it? Seems like our most recent catch-phrase looks worse when we say it about one of our (kind of) own. I dunno.. I'm guilty of thinking/saying it myself. Seems to be taking off though. Not sure I like where it's heading...

March 2, 2007, 11:50 PM	#3
mvpel Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2000 Location: Hooksett, NH Posts: 1,847	That's very reassuring to hear. His comments were extremely offensive, but I'm glad to hear he's seen the light. Ted Nugent deserves our congratulations and thanks. __________________ Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, "Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!" 1 Samuel 13:19

March 3, 2007, 11:45 AM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,576	Words are cheap. So far all we have from Mr. Zumbo are words, words that don't really convince me of the level or nature of his "contritition." Until I see actual, measurable actions from him, and NOT just in the "hey, these guns are hunting guns" but in the "this is a Second Amendment rights issue, the same as with ALL firearms," then I'm going to be a lot more forgiving. So far, though, everything I've seen leads me to believe that Mr. Zumbo is as ignorant of the Second Amendment and its protections today as he was 6 weeks ago. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 3, 2007, 12:34 PM	#9
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,492	Amen, Mike. Zumbo isn't some naive little school kid who pulled a boner in front of the microphone, at the Christmas Cantata. He understood his audience and he knew how to play to them. He knew, through decades in the game, the sphere of influence he commanded- and he used that influence in a blatant attempt to divide us on the second amendment. Zumbo didn't "make a mistake"- he stabbed us in the back. Does anyone here think for a minute that he would have retracted & reversed his position, if the outcry from the masses had been in favor of his ‘sporting purpose’ litmus test for hunting implements- instead of against it? I think not. Like Clinton’s “blue dress”, Jim Zumbo’s blog of February 16 was the irrefutable evidence of where this man’s priorities lie. In Zumbo’s case- they lie with the enemy. No quarter for treason. http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/ __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

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March 2, 2007, 11:42 PM	#2
rhgunguy Junior member Join Date: March 7, 2006 Posts: 1,057	I was as po'ed as anyone when I read about his comments. Since then, i have read some things on Ted Nugent's board. The Nuge re-educated Zumbo, and even invited him on a hunt with ARs. Zumbo, accepted and has even become a member on the Nuge's board. He has issued a full appology and is asking for NO pity. He has stated that it is now his goal to educate the sportsmen among us that would not care if assault rifles got banned, much as the Nuge educated him. Furthermore he and Nugent are going to appear at the NRA banquet where Zumbo will publicly appologize. The guy has paid enough for what he said. He is making ammends. Props to him for standing up and doing the right thing after the fact and repairing the damage he did.

March 3, 2007, 12:03 AM	#4
rhgunguy Junior member Join Date: March 7, 2006 Posts: 1,057	The Nuge deserves more than that. He needs some help from us true belivers. I just read on his site that DPMS is getting hammered by people that want them to end their relationship with Ted because of his stand on Zumbo. How people can see Ted's actions as a bad thing is beyond me, but there you have it. I plan on calling them on the start of buisness Monday and tell them that I had planned on buying an AR-10 from them, but it could just as easily come from RRA if they drop the Nuge.

March 3, 2007, 12:24 AM	#5
Monkeyleg Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2000 Posts: 4,625	Horsehockey. How many times have people been suckered in by lame apologies by politicians and celebrities? I haven't waded into the Zumbo discussions on this or other forums because I thought what he said was obvious. The guy has been around the block, knows guns, and must certainly know the difference between a Remington 7400 and an AR. The fact that he got Ted Nugent to help him out suggests personal relationships, not ideology. I don't see much difference between this conversion, and former NOW president Patricia Ireland giving Bill Clinton a pass. The gun community needs unity. Guys like Zumbo just feed on the anti's efforts to divide our community. Yes, I know that's been said 100,000 times in the last couple of weeks, but it's still the truth. Does anyone for a single second think that--if Remington had not dropped his sponsorship, if Cabela's had not dropped his sponsorship, if Outdoor Life had not canned him--he would now feel differently about Evil Black Rifles? I've come to know many Second Amendment fighters over the years. Some of them have slept in their cars overnight, after trying to talk to the Zumbo's at various gun clubs. They had no sponsors to put them up in nice hotels. When Zumbo issues a real apology, I'll know it, just as I know art or pornography when I see it. As for Ted Nugent, he's not exactly high on my list of Second Amendment supporters, either. We had a fund-raising banquet here in WI last July. I contacted Nugent's staff, and was told that he required $25,000 to $35,000 for a single speech. Our goal was to raise money to help defeat anti-gun Governor Jim Doyle. Massad Ayoob spoke to our banquet at no charge.

March 3, 2007, 12:40 AM	#6
rhgunguy Junior member Join Date: March 7, 2006 Posts: 1,057	So, you have never made a mistake before? I am sure that losing sponsorship had a great deal to do with Zumbo re-evaluating his position, but Nugent invited Zumbo to talk. Nugent does a ton for not only the firearms community, but also for other conservative values. I seriously doubt that the contribution was that high. Perhaps a tenth that, after all the guy has got to eat.

March 3, 2007, 05:02 AM	#7
Monkeyleg Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2000 Posts: 4,625	rhgunguy, I've made so many mistakes that I've lost count. "I am sure that losing sponsorship had a great deal to do with Zumbo re-evaluating his position, but Nugent invited Zumbo to talk." Yeah, having your career go down in flames, the only career you've known, pretty much the only source of income you have...that will cause you to re-evaluate your position. Unless, of course, your position is so well-staked that you can't wriggle out of it. "Nugent does a ton for not only the firearms community, but also for other conservative values. I seriously doubt that the contribution was that high. Perhaps a tenth that, after all the guy has got to eat." What contribution, and how high? We were hosting a fund-raising banquet for our political action commitee, the WCCM. Any monkey with a keyboard could access our PAC's contribution records for the past 5+ years and see what we've been doing. The banquet was to raise as much money as possible for gubernatorial candidate Mark Green, as well as senate and assembly candidates who were solidly behind the CCW bill. I made several efforts to contact Ted Nugent, and to see if he would recognize the cause, and perhaps adjust his speaking fees accordingly. I also suggested that we schedule our fund-raising banquet sometime around the NRA's national convention here in Milwaukee, so that his travel and hotel schedule wouldn't be inconvenienced. I talked to his staff over and over. And got the same answer: $25,000 to $35,000. I saw Nugent at the May NRA convention here. I wanted to go up and slap him. Not because he's trying to make a few bucks. I never begrudge anyone for trying to make money. I was ticked off because Ted Nugent claims to be some champion of Second Amendment rights. If he had been true to his claims, and had just appeared for one hour at our banquet (an hour's flight from his home), we could have raised ten times the money we did for pro-gun candidates. Instead, we were told that he would require $25,000 to $35,000 for the speech, first-class airline seats, and a five-star hotel. I'll trade you one Massad Ayoob for five Ted Nugents any day of the week. At the very least, Massad knows better than to curse when interviewed. And I very much doubt that Massad would have ever written, much less sang, a song such as "Cat Scratch Fever."

March 3, 2007, 06:31 PM	#10
Number 6 Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2002 Posts: 919	If "Zumbo'd" means "self-destructed," the term is apt. His column was an act of self-immolation and the ensuing consequences were neither unforeseeable nor undeserved. The issue now is whether he has truly "gotten it" or remains a mere Fudd - albeit a severely chastened one.

March 3, 2007, 11:06 PM	#11
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	The real question at hand is how we can use the situation to our advantage. Zumbo was a symptom of a greater disease - the rifts that exist within the gun culture. Deer hunters don't care about duck hunters don't care about turkey hunters don't care about quail hunters don't care about target plinkers don't care about practical pistol shooters don't care about defense shooters don't care about gun collectors don't care about machinegunners don't care about silhouette shooters don't care about benchrest shooters don't care about IDPA shooters don't care about smallbore silhouette shooters don't care about bullseye shooters don't care about skeet shooters don't care about trap shooters don't care about sporting clays shooters don't care about tactical match shooters don't care about granny who has a hogleg next to the bedstand, and she don't like anything, because she saw on TV that they're all crooks. Any ideas on how to fix this?