The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 10, 2007, 09:48 PM   #1
Greg Bell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 1999
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,051
Project: Break my P2000

Guys,

I found myself a project for the year. Instead of shooting a lot of different guns this year, I have decided I am going to try to shoot my P2000 until it breaks.

Here is the idea...

1. Shoot, at a minimum 5-600 rounds through it per week.
2. Clean according to factory recommendations.
3. Shoot it under all conditions (rain, snow (yeah right), etc).
4. Carry it every day.
5. Do a lot of dry firing (with snap cap).
6. Do a lot of presentations
7. Shoot competition with it.




Basically, I plan to shoot about 30k through the gun this year. I want to see if the P2000 can take it. I'll wager it can.

I will not be doing "torture tests," as I think they are generally dumb. I will clean the gun regularly, because it is designed to be cleaned. I want to see what the life expectancy of this gun is, when maintained by an adult.

Anyway, a few questions...


1. How often should I replace the captive spring?
2. How often should I replace the plastic doohickey.


I want to replace these items conservatively, but nor obsessively. I want to give the gun a fighting chance.

Oh yeah, I have 6 mags. I will clean and rotate them regularly. How often should I replace the springs, to be fair to the gun?

Saturday

the project started yesterday. I have 400 rounds through it in the last two days. Tomorrow I will add 200 more if Wal-mart is willing.

Sunday

I added 200 rounds of Winchester "white box," 50 more rounds of Blazer, 50 rounds of ancient Remington +P hollowpoints (my last! Sniff, I have had a bunch of that for years), 40 rounds of Corbon (115 and 125), 20 rounds of 124 grain Short barrel hollow point Gold dot, and about 10 other rounds. To humor myself, I mixed and matched the ammo in the mags. The P2000 could care less. I also duplicated a test I did with and earlier P2000, in which I flopped the gun around in my hand a lot (one handed) to try to cause a malfunction. Nothing.

When I got home, I cleaned the gun with rem-oil, some bore solvent, a tooth brush and a 9mm Hoppes brush (brass). I did not go nuts, I just sprayed it, brushed it, reamed the barrel 12-15 passes and cleaned up.

I have also numbered my mags to keep up with them. Mags 1-3 did all the work today.
__________________
Correct anwers to gun questions to save time...
Carry: j-frame
Home/combat: Hk P30 or Beretta 92G
Doomsday: Colt 6920 with Aimpoint t-2
Greg Bell is offline  
Old January 10, 2007, 10:39 PM   #2
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 22,163
I wouldn't change the mag springs. Letting them wear out (if they do) will provide interesting information and won't harm the gun.

The recoil spring should get swapped every 3K to 5K or when it won't fully close the slide with the muzzle pointed up and the slide released just barely out of battery (or, of course when the manufacturer recommends--I don't have a manual for that pistol).
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old January 11, 2007, 12:04 AM   #3
Greg Bell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 1999
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,051
I agree. The mag spring failures provide more interesting info than not replacing the buffer and spring (which, we know, will just damage the gun needlessly over time).
__________________
Correct anwers to gun questions to save time...
Carry: j-frame
Home/combat: Hk P30 or Beretta 92G
Doomsday: Colt 6920 with Aimpoint t-2
Greg Bell is offline  
Old January 11, 2007, 01:48 AM   #4
Hayley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2004
Posts: 295
Why not try for sponsorship from HK, inc or a freelance article with _Guns & Ammo_ or somebody rather than trying to ruin your personal property? Anyhow, it's your affair.
Hayley is offline  
Old January 11, 2007, 01:00 PM   #5
litework
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2001
Location: Culpeper, Va.
Posts: 401
Quote:
Why not try for sponsorship from HK, inc or a freelance article with _Guns & Ammo_ or somebody rather than trying to ruin your personal property? Anyhow, it's your affair.
You'd probably spend over a thousand bucks on a vacation and have a lot less fun than shooting a $700 dollar pistol to death.
litework is offline  
Old January 11, 2007, 01:21 PM   #6
DanV1317
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2004
Posts: 331
30,000 rounds....that's nothing dude. I know guys at my ranges who put like 20,000+ through a year for the past 4-5 years.
DanV1317 is offline  
Old January 11, 2007, 01:28 PM   #7
ShipWreck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,744
Wish I could afford that

I shot approx 5k rounds last year between all my weapons....
ShipWreck is offline  
Old January 11, 2007, 05:37 PM   #8
Greg Bell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 1999
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,051
"30,000 rounds....that's nothing dude. I know guys at my ranges who put like 20,000+ through a year for the past 4-5 years."

Well, 20-30k is what I usually shoot (for the past year or three), but not through the same gun.
__________________
Correct anwers to gun questions to save time...
Carry: j-frame
Home/combat: Hk P30 or Beretta 92G
Doomsday: Colt 6920 with Aimpoint t-2
Greg Bell is offline  
Old January 11, 2007, 05:38 PM   #9
solz56
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Location: California
Posts: 503
Well, it's your P2000. Sounds like an interesting test. Keep us posted.
__________________
H&K P2000SK 9mm
H&K P7M8 9mm
Springfield 1911 Loaded Trophy Match .45
Colt 1911 Gov't .45
solz56 is offline  
Old January 12, 2007, 04:46 PM   #10
AndrewD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2006
Location: Occidental CA
Posts: 105
Why use a snap cap for dry firing? Put that myth to the test while you're torturing the gun.
AndrewD is offline  
Old January 12, 2007, 05:19 PM   #11
roger-ruger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2005
Posts: 251
Break The P2000

Why not just shoot it with reloads with zero cleaning and allow the barrel to foul-up that will sure break-out your P2000.
roger-ruger is offline  
Old January 13, 2007, 09:44 PM   #12
Greg Bell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 1999
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,051
Well, I shot 200 rounds of Winchester White Box and 100 rounds of Blazer through the P2000 today.

Today I added a wrinkle: I shot left handed only. I practiced a bunch of draws from right side IWB by reaching behind my back. I also reloaded with the gun between my legs. I dropped it twice!! One time the slide dropped and loaded the round when it hit. Of course, the P2000 could care less. Not a scratch. Also note, the ambi slide release can be activated if you squeeze the slide too hard with your knees. If you don't have the mag in then you have to rack the slide one handed! That is a bee-atch.

Also note, I have decided I am only going to clean the gun once per weekend. That means I will be going approximately 600 rounds between cleanings. Not a torture test, I just don't feel like cleaning it two or three days in a row.

Final note: The trigger pull has dropped a bit. It was 7.9 pounds new. It is now 7.2. That is a considerable drop!!

That was a fun day at the range.

P.S. I also shot an FS 2000 today. I really want one. I think I may want it more than I want a SIG 556. Hmm...



Day :6

Total: 1070 rounds

Malfunctions: 0

Dropped: 2
.


I have dropped the snap caps. Dry firing will be sans snap cap.
__________________
Correct anwers to gun questions to save time...
Carry: j-frame
Home/combat: Hk P30 or Beretta 92G
Doomsday: Colt 6920 with Aimpoint t-2
Greg Bell is offline  
Old January 14, 2007, 09:00 PM   #13
Greg Bell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 1999
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,051
Day 7!!!

Update!

Shot 300 rounds of Winchester White Box through her today. My buddy shot 300 rounds through his Sig 229 at the same time. We almost had a brassolanch.

Anyway, I shot left handed again because of my tennis elbow. I started getting fatigued, but I got through the rounds (oh, the suffering I go through). I started out pretty damn good, keeping all the rounds in the black at 21 feet and 95% in the black at 30 feet. Mind you, this is all done from a behind the back draw and week handed with a fast 2 shots). I have gotten tons of practice reloading one handed. No drops today. I also practiced engaging multiple targets left handed and moving (ahem, HARD).




Day :7

Total: 1370 rounds

Malfunctions: 0

Dropped: 2.



__________________
Correct anwers to gun questions to save time...
Carry: j-frame
Home/combat: Hk P30 or Beretta 92G
Doomsday: Colt 6920 with Aimpoint t-2

Last edited by Greg Bell; January 15, 2007 at 01:55 PM. Reason: Dead links
Greg Bell is offline  
Old January 14, 2007, 10:19 PM   #14
Kermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 6, 2001
Location: California
Posts: 3,020
I put 27,000 rounds through my USP 45 its first year of ownership & lost count after about 33k and I'm still going strong HK knows what their doing w/ their guns
Kermit is offline  
Old January 15, 2007, 01:14 AM   #15
GalilARM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2007
Location: TX
Posts: 267
haha this is pretty entertaining....keep us posted. Though I dont doubt the pistol will handle it just fine.....I hope 30,000 rounds doesnt roll around with no malfunctions because that would be kind of boring. Maybe clean it less and see what happens...
GalilARM is offline  
Old January 15, 2007, 12:47 PM   #16
LTC_Para
Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2005
Posts: 88
maybe you should try to only clean it every 1000-1500+ rounds. in my experience most handguns i have fired do just fine after 400-500 rounds but start acting up around 500-600. i would be more impressed if it was cleaned less so there is some good buildup or dirt and burnt gun powder, rather than cleaning before something 'may happen'.
__________________
Remington 700 VS .308 26" heavy barrel - Leupold Var-X III 4.5-14x50 mm || RRA M4 16"
1911 Para Ordnance LTC Stainless .45 ACP || HK USPf 9mm V1
Savage 93R17 21" Heavy Barrell 17 HMR
LTC_Para is offline  
Old January 15, 2007, 12:53 PM   #17
BUSTER51
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2004
Location: PHOENIX, AZ
Posts: 992
It must be nice to have all that spare time and money.
BUSTER51 is offline  
Old January 15, 2007, 12:57 PM   #18
Greg Bell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 1999
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,051
I go back and forth on the cleaning thing. I have decided to just clean it at the end of every weekend. That means a minimum of 600 rounds, and a maximu of 8-900.

Honestly, I didn't start this as a "torture test" in the normal sense. Although I love playing around, I don't really get the point of shooting a gun 10,000 rounds without cleaning. I would never do that in "real life," and anybody who would is nuts. Even if I had no cleaning stuff I would still use motor oil or gasoline or just some old rags to clean my guns every once in a while. Further, all guns were designed for some minimum level of maintence.

I probably will, out of boredom, run the P2000 through a few "torture tests" over the next year. Still, I want them to be interesting. I have already submerged a P2000 in water and mud and found it to work fine (and I have a little video I will probably put on my blog later).
__________________
Correct anwers to gun questions to save time...
Carry: j-frame
Home/combat: Hk P30 or Beretta 92G
Doomsday: Colt 6920 with Aimpoint t-2
Greg Bell is offline  
Old January 15, 2007, 02:39 PM   #19
LTC_Para
Member
 
Join Date: December 31, 2005
Posts: 88
well i think the 10,000 round 'torture test' in my opinion, someone correct me if i am wrong, is just a way to test a gun during normal firing conditions continuously for 10,000 rounds, but in combat or extreme conditions of dust, sand, mositure, etc these 10,000 rounds may be equivalent to only a fraction of the firearms capabilities. so i dont think that shooting 1000+ rounds without a cleaning is excessive, granted i clean mine after i am done shooting, but from the title 'break my p2000' just seems that there has to be something more than just shooting it every weekend and doing what the manual says after xxx rounds.

just my 0.02
__________________
Remington 700 VS .308 26" heavy barrel - Leupold Var-X III 4.5-14x50 mm || RRA M4 16"
1911 Para Ordnance LTC Stainless .45 ACP || HK USPf 9mm V1
Savage 93R17 21" Heavy Barrell 17 HMR
LTC_Para is offline  
Old January 15, 2007, 02:45 PM   #20
Greg Bell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 25, 1999
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,051
Well, "Break my P2000" means just that. I am going to shoot it until it breaks. I could smash it with a hammer, and it would break, but that doesn't interest me. What interests me is exactly how long this gun can be shot, with typical maintenance, before it breaks. Yeah, I will probably let it get extra dirty one month, and drop it about 100 times or so--but I won't be freezing it in dog crap or leaving it in my case tumbler or anything like that. This is more about determining the real service life one can expect out of a well-designed, modern autoloader.
__________________
Correct anwers to gun questions to save time...
Carry: j-frame
Home/combat: Hk P30 or Beretta 92G
Doomsday: Colt 6920 with Aimpoint t-2
Greg Bell is offline  
Old January 16, 2007, 11:29 AM   #21
LSP972
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2006
Posts: 189
Interesting, Greg. FWIW, I agree with your approach... "torture tests" are good for military trials and generating discussion among the uninitiated, but really don't make much sense for common civilian end-users like us.

Does the P2000 have a delrin buffer on the rcoil spring assembly like the USP Compact does? HK recommends replacing that at 20K rounds.

A pal, in the FFDO program, recently shot one of his USPc .40s extensively without cleaning it, just to see... it finally choked after 1200+ rounds, while he was shooting from one of those contorted positions the airline pilots practice.

I'll be watching your journey with interest; I'll be needing to replace an issue G-17 I use for a "car gun" when I retire here soon; it was seized from a drug mule and must stay with the agency. I have been considering a P2000 as a replacement; especially since I'm trying to get the wife to adopt a P2000K in lieu of her G-26...

No joy on that, so far. But I am thoroughly into the HK camp by virtue of my USPc .45, and I'm keeping a close eye on the HK 45C..

Good luck, and have fun...

.
LSP972 is offline  
Old January 16, 2007, 11:39 AM   #22
solz56
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Location: California
Posts: 503
Quote:
I have been considering a P2000 as a replacement; especially since I'm trying to get the wife to adopt a P2000K in lieu of her G-26...
All you gotta do is have her hold the P2000sk. The ergonomics will sell it to her.
__________________
H&K P2000SK 9mm
H&K P7M8 9mm
Springfield 1911 Loaded Trophy Match .45
Colt 1911 Gov't .45
solz56 is offline  
Old January 16, 2007, 11:48 AM   #23
stephen426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 3,584
You might want to invest in a reloader if you plan on shooting that many rounds. The cheapest I have seen Winchester White Box is $5/50 for 9mm. I'm not sure if that is what your P2000 is chambered for but the bullet weights you mentioned seem to indicate that it is 9mm. I would not change out anything from the gun unless it broke. That way you have a true test. I agree with cleaning since you are going for a "critical failure" rather than a simple failure to fire. I have fired thousands of rounds through my Glock 26 without changing out my recoil spring. Why should you have to change out the recoil spring in the H&K so often? If you were talking about 1911s with shock buffers, that I could understand. Many people don't like them though since that is one extra thing that could break and cause your gun to malfunction (usually at the worst possible time). Good luck with the test and please keep us posted.
__________________
The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!
stephen426 is offline  
Old January 16, 2007, 02:45 PM   #24
LSP972
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 14, 2006
Posts: 189
<<...All you gotta do is have her hold it...>>

Wrong. Tried that already.

She took an instant dislike to the magazine release. And, like most women, she is loath to admit that her first impression MIGHT have been wrong...

I'm slowly working on her, with both my USPc and a Walther P22. But she's got a hickory head, and I must tread very lightly. She does well with her G-26, and it won't bother me if she stays with it. I was just thinking of magazine commonality; when we go to the range, I've got too much crap to keep up with.

.
LSP972 is offline  
Old January 16, 2007, 07:10 PM   #25
Lord_Nikon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 401
LSP972, get her to use, really use, that mag release. I know once I did, I fell in love. It's one of my favorite features on my USP Tactical.
__________________
Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how it remains so popular?
Lord_Nikon is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09322 seconds with 7 queries