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Old January 16, 2017, 07:45 AM   #1
cecILL
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.357 bullet for hogs?

Loading some .357s for hogs. Marlin lever action. What bullet would you guys recommend? Using Unique.
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Old January 16, 2017, 07:57 AM   #2
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357 for hog? Use the heaviest bullet you can use, Unique has 158gr has data published. You'll have a hard time getting above 1,100 fps safely with Unique even with a carbine length barrel, it's just too fast for heavy bullets.

I use Unique for all my pistol target loads, it does fine for accuracy in most everything I load, but I wouldn't recommend it for a carbine for hunting. H110 or 300-MP would be better choices for hunting. The additional 400 to 500 fps you can get from them with the same bullets makes it worth the money for a pound of powder.

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Old January 16, 2017, 08:12 AM   #3
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Agree. Use the heaviest bullet you have, or buy some, and a magnum powder.
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Old January 16, 2017, 08:44 AM   #4
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Id find a 180 grain wide flat nose hard cast lead and load it up with 4227 powder. That'll shoot length wise through all but the most monstrous hog.
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Old January 16, 2017, 09:29 AM   #5
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158 gr Hornady xtpfp
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Old January 16, 2017, 09:46 AM   #6
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I hate to say it (been an H110 fan for decades), but a lot of us are finding AA9 giving equal or better velocities with less flash and crack, probably slightly less peak pressure, and great consistency. Meters as well as H110. On the advice of Brian Pearce, lit with non-magnum primers.
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Old January 16, 2017, 10:11 AM   #7
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AA9 is a good choice...it is a magnum pistol powder.
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Old January 16, 2017, 12:11 PM   #8
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I have used 2400 and like the results. I may have to try AA9
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Old January 16, 2017, 12:35 PM   #9
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Hornady's 158 gr. FP/XTP. Designed for hunting and higher velocities of rifles. Load using the same data as the hollowpoint XTP. I highly recommend a magnum powder and I prefer Accurate Arms AA#9 using AA's data.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/79...ose-box-of-100
My Marlin .357 Mag rifle likes 13.0 grains or AA#9.
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Old January 16, 2017, 12:40 PM   #10
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I have killed them with a 22LR 40 gr bullet, 9x19 124 gr bullet, 9x19 135 gr cast bullet, 357 140 gr bullet and so on.

My choice now with 357 is a cast 160 gr SWC loaded to approx. 1150-1200 fps BHN 10. I do not believe in the hardcast hype.

So to answer the OP's question, I would say anything 140 gr and above that can be shot to point of aim at various distances.
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Old January 16, 2017, 08:49 PM   #11
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Hornady has decreased their A#9 load data for the 158 gr XTP so much, the starting load when I began 20 years ago was more than the maximum load today. The maximum load today is 2.8 gr less than the maximum load in 1995. 31% loss of energy. Doesn't seem to be very Magnum!
Power Pro 300-MP seems to be the best choice for this bullet in the current Hornady Manual.


Best,
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Old January 16, 2017, 10:57 PM   #12
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A few are mentioning a 158 XTPFP; and that's certainly a good choice. But I believe that just about any jacketed flat point would be a good choice. The more velocity loss that occurs downrange, the more a hollow point would be the better choice. But either way . . .

The propellant needs to change. Unique isn't up to snuff (save it for your 4" revolvers). To make good use of that carbine, you need to go with something slower. 2400, W296/H110, or the really big 300 MP.

I don't hunt. But I know that hogs are really tough.
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Old January 16, 2017, 11:04 PM   #13
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357 oink, oink

Chainsaw is on the mark.

That's what I load...but then again, I'm loading for 357 Maximum Contender.

I'll be looking for hogs this weekend.
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Old January 17, 2017, 07:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Unique has 158gr has data published. You'll have a hard time getting above 1,100 fps safely with Unique even with a carbine length barrel, it's just too fast for heavy bullets.
Strange...

I have Alliant data here in front of me that shows 158gr jacketed bullet over Unique stepping along at 1,280fps from a 5.6" barrel at 33,200psi...

I also have data from the Hornady #4 manual stating that they got 1,550fps from a carbine with the XTP 158gr using Unique...
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Old January 17, 2017, 08:16 AM   #15
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Thanks all. Poor man here. And use Unique for most everything I can get away with, cause that is what I have a lot of on hand.

First five rounds: 8.8gr Unique, 158gr JHP XTP.

Considerably lighter than my buddies handloads, though no idea what he had used. His loads were almost scary, and loaded for a Coonan B.

These are for an old prospector. He was happy with the first five.

If he shoots one, I'll post results.

Again, thank you.

Last edited by cecILL; January 17, 2017 at 08:16 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old January 17, 2017, 09:18 AM   #16
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Be aware there are liabilities associated with loading for someone else and that you are required to have a special license to "remanufacture" ammunition for other people for commercial purposes (making money at it). Your safest bet from both standpoints is to invite the person over and teach them to use your equipment and let them load their own.

The other element of that goes straight to why the Hornady loads changed over time. Their old manuals had loads developed in a commercial firearm with unknown tolerances while watching for pressure signs. They were not pressure tested. Now, after using that same development process as a starting point, they pressure test their maximum loads. This is because pressure signs are really only applicable to the gun the loads are worked up in, including your friend's gun, and this has resulted in a lot of their old loads proving to be well above SAAMI standard limits.

One of the .44 Special starting loads in the old Hornady Second Edition manual was so hot that when I tried it in a Charter Bulldog it left my hand stinging. It was already at maximum for that little gun, where it had been fine in the gun they developed it in. The maximum load would have been well past sticky case extraction signs in the thin wall Charter chambers.

Regarding old load data in general: Powders, including Unique, and primers have been reformulated over time and aren't any longer an exact match to what we bought forty years ago. Case weight and capacity has changed in many cartridges, too, and pressure determining instrumentation has always been more accurate than pressure signs. So old data is obsolete data and in some instances is actually dangerous. Don't ever rely on it. Even if all those things never changed, you'd still only be certain to be able to rely on it in the exact gun it was developed in to eliminate tolerance effects on pressure. You have to think of old data as "could be possible" in some guns, but not for a moment believe that it falls within the SAAMI standard, which is designed to make ammo compatible with all guns of a given chambering.

In the Alliant manual, the maximum load of Unique under a 158 grain bullet in the .357 Magnum is 6.0 grains. Their manual loads are all maximums and they assume you will reduce the load 10% to 5.4 grains and work up your load with the gun in hand, watching for pressure signs from that number. The velocity they give is 1034 fps. That will be for a 4" barrel revolver that the test barrel mimics. In an 18" barrel that will come to about 1300 fps. If you can find a way to finance a better powder choice, that will be of benefit. The Alliant manual suggests 300-MP could get you to 2.6 times more muzzle energy.

I like the idea of the flat nose hard cast bullets. Beartooth makes a 185 grain Flat Nose Gas Checked (FN GC) bullet that is short for its weight, leaving powder space, and that will work well with one of the magnum powders. They may not have great BC's, but in a tough target like a hog you have to worry about an expanding pistol bullet opening up and stopping too soon. I've seen some photos where expanding handgun bullets have stopped in hogs before getting all way through the fat layers under the skin. If you are going to use an expanding bullet, I strongly recommend contacting the manufacturer to get their opinion on whether it is appropriate for the task at the expected velocities.
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Old January 17, 2017, 10:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
I have killed them with a 22LR 40 gr bullet, 9x19 124 gr bullet, 9x19 135 gr cast bullet, 357 140 gr bullet and so on.
Packing houses have used 22 LR, we lived 2 blocks from a packing house, I could not have been older than 6 when I went home and informed my mother they were killing cows with a sledge hammer; after that I was no longer allowed to hang out with the guys at the packing house.

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Old January 17, 2017, 10:40 AM   #18
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My favorite 357 bullet is the Lyman 358477. Its suppose to be a 150 LSWC but my mold cast them at 155 gr.

I've been using it since I got into LE, I was issued a 4 in. Model 28, but when I saw the dept. was issuing 38 RNL bullets, cast and loaded by prison trustees, I decided to carry my own loads.

I've shot several moose and even a buffalo using that bullet pushed bye 2400. If it works on those critters out of a 4 inch revolver, I don't see why it wouldn't work on hogs.

Besides my revolvers, that load is accurate in my Marlin 38/357.

I like unique in 38s, but in 357s I think you get more pressure then velocity. The 357s need a slower burning powder.
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Old January 17, 2017, 12:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
In the Alliant manual, the maximum load of Unique under a 158 grain bullet in the .357 Magnum is 6.0 grains. Their manual loads are all maximums and they assume you will reduce the load 10% to 5.4 grains and work up your load with the gun in hand, watching for pressure signs from that number.
The Unique reloading page on the Alliant website states a max of 7.7gr with a 158gr jacketed...

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...3&cartridge=28

The 6gr max is with 158gr LSWC...They keep the pressure low so you don't get blow-by and leading...
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Old January 17, 2017, 01:39 PM   #20
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I have to agree with Unclenick:
Quote:
I like the idea of the flat nose hard cast bullets.
Boar hogs are tough. The Russian boar has a "shoulder shield" that is especially tough to protect them in fights with other boars. Not sure if domestic wild pigs also possess this shield.

Several years ago I shot a 250 pound Russian with a 405 grain jacketed bullet out of a 45-70 (Marlin 1895). It was a shoulder shot and I recovered the bullet from under the skin on the far shoulder. Point is that even a 45-70 would not shoot all the way through the boar's shoulders. Great mushroom on the bullet however.

From a .357 you need all the penetration you can get, hence the hard cast recommendation.
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Old January 18, 2017, 08:17 AM   #21
cecILL
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8.8 Unique over the 158gr JHP showed no signs of over pressure. Be advised, this is not pistol data, but rifle data, which the manual states as a max load.

Mostly, I'm looking for the best bullet. Looks like the flat nose should be my choice.

Concern for my liability is appreciated, but not applicable.

No one touches my tools.
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Old January 20, 2017, 12:34 PM   #22
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http://missouribullet.com/details.ph...y=10&keywords=

Cheap and great profile

Alliant lists 7.0gr of unique under a 180gr for 1125fps.

Last edited by ss30378; January 20, 2017 at 12:37 PM. Reason: added load data
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Old January 21, 2017, 12:39 AM   #23
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^^ perfect. Load and go, no worries of lead fouling. Hardness is just right too. Good company to buy from.
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Old January 21, 2017, 04:05 AM   #24
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Just for snits and giggles, I pulled out a couple of old manuals, and guess what, ALL the old loads are NOT hotter than today. Even some of the ones worked up in real guns, not pressure test guns.

Lyman 45th Edition (1970) does not have a rifle section for .357 Magnum. It lists max Unique with the 158gr jacketed as 8.0gr it also lists 8.0gr as max for the 158gr lead bullet.

The Speer #11 (1991edition) in the RIFLE section using a Marlin 1894 as test gun, lists Unique and the 158gr jacketed with 8.2gr as max, and 6.0gr as max with the 158gr lead bullet. It also lists these exact figures as max in the pistol section, using a Ruger Security Six as the test gun.

DO note how these loads are well below the 8.8gr loaded by the OP.

Unique is not the optimum powder for max performance in the .357 Mag, it does gain some benefit from the carbine length barrel, but not as much, proportionately as the slower AA#9, H110, or 2400.

Unique will get a 158 into the 1450fps range from a carbine. 2400 will get you into the 1800fps range.

Bullet selection is most important, anything made to expand well at pistol speeds has a good chance of overexpanding and under penetrating at carbine speeds.

A couple of points about the Marlin carbine, I've had a few of them, and sometimes they are not happy with feeding SWC slugs, and they are never happy with rounds that are too long. Other than that, they are light, handy, efficient little guns capable of taking larger game than many think, with the right load, and proper shot placement.
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Old January 22, 2017, 08:30 AM   #25
cecILL
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Thanks again for all the responses.

And thank you, ss30378, for the link. Hunting bullets are new to me.

Will relay all this info to my friend, and see if he wants to work up a load with another propellant. An expensive proposition for a few hunting/protection rounds.

Numbers in manuals are like recipes, they give you a good starting point, but just like food, can be made to "taste" better. I do not throw caution into the wind.

Believe, "Nothing that you hear and half of what you see", is still good advice, but with this day and age of photoshopping, I'm not so sure that "half of what you see" is still valid.
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