Can I mix bullets (FMJ) in recipies?

J.T.King · April 2, 2000, 04:49 PM

Hello!

I am about to try reloading with my father for the first time (he has reloaded for the last 6 years). What I am wanting to reload is 45cal +P in FMJ. I have purchased Remington nickel-plated +P brass. and Remington 230gr FMJ bullets.

But I cant figure out what kind of primers or powder to get and I cant find load data for 45cal+p using remington 230gr FMJ.

Can I use any load data for 230-gr +p FMJ? Or do I need Remington data only? I have found loading data for 45+P for other bullets but there is always a disclaimer that you cant mix and match components. I understand that about powder, but how much does it matter for bullets or for primers?

Please help! I am leaving to visit my father in two weeks and I have between now and then to gather all the materials I need.

Thanks!

J.T.

char923 · April 2, 2000, 07:11 PM

The bullets from different compary, a lot of them use different jacket material and different hardnees. harder and the thickness of the jacket will make more bore drag in and the pressure go up.

J.T.King · April 4, 2000, 04:13 PM

OK guys, we just loast all of the last two days posts it seems.

There was REALLY good info on here about my problem and like an idiot I didnt preint it off. Who would have thunk that TFL would have a crash?

Please, please, please help!

Thanks!

J.T.

STRIDER · April 4, 2000, 10:29 PM

If you have to ask about reloading +p, DON'T!

If you want +p use factory. I would think twice about using +p for several reasons:
1-It kicks more and is harder to control
2-Often times it has more muzzle flash
3-It puts more wear and tear on your gun
4-It probably won't stop a bad guy any faster than regular ammo.
5- there is not a lot of (if any) sanctioned data on +p from the powder manufacturers (there's a reason)
Try some Winchester Supertarget or 231 with Winchester Large pistol primers. There are many other great components out there.

If you use a conservative load from a manual you can interchange bullets of the same weight and type.

Good luck and be carefull.

[This message has been edited by STRIDER (edited April 04, 2000).]

J.T.King · April 5, 2000, 01:14 AM

Thanks for the reply...

I'm firing this out of an HK USP45f. I do not fire a whole lot of rounds (not a competitor, just about 100 rnds a month for practice andthen self-D). I use Corbon 230 +P as carry ammo.

I would like to reload a balistically similar round for my practice. I *DO* have load data from alliant for 45acp +P using power pistol powder, but it is for an unspecified FMC bullet and all my bullets are FMJ.

I know that at least there is a difference in OAL from the FMC to the FMJ. most 45acp load data suggests an OAL for FMJ of 1.26-1.275 as opposed to the alliant load data for FMC that says 1.19

Can I load these +P rounds with the FMJ from remmington if I use the round nose 45acp OAL listed at 1.275 and I start with a backed off powder charge by 10% and work my way up to it? I do have access to a chronograph and would obviously check for flattened primers and case damage.

Next question... All the books say dont mix primers, yet all over the internet I hear of guys swapping out primers all the time to see if they can get more accuracy. My load data for the 45acp +P from alliant says to use Federal 150 primers but they are not to be found in my gun stores and are a special order for $32!!!! Virtually all the other primers (CCI, Remington, Winchester) are only $15 per 1000.

Can I try a differnt primer?

Please help!

thanks!

J.T.

[This message has been edited by J.T.King (edited April 05, 2000).]

**Mal H** · April 5, 2000, 02:17 AM

J.T., if the primer question is your main question, it should be perfectly ok to substitute another similar primer for the Fed 150's. When the books say don't mix primers, I believe what they mean is don't change primers, or any component for that matter, without first backing off your powder load at least 10% and work up from there. IOW, don't substitute brand y primers for a load you've already worked up with brand x primers just because you ran out of brand x and need to load a few more rounds and have some brand y lying around.

Most reloaders tend to standardize on one primer manufacturer anyway. The Fed 150 is a standard LP (not magnum) primer so any standard LP primer, such as WLP, should be fine (although Win says the WLP can be used with standard or mag loadings). It isn't necessary to use a LP magnum primer with any 45 ACP even a +P.

As I said in one of the lost posts, you might want to get a copy of Midway's 45 ACP LoadMap. They have lots of loads specifically for the Rem 230 FMJ.

You're on your own when experimenting with +P loads. When you start testing the edge of the envelope, several factors come into play that you don't normally need to worry a lot about - proper crimping, proper and accurate OAL, more accurate powder measuring, etc.

J.T.King · April 6, 2000, 12:08 AM

thanks guys... I picked up a box of Winchester Large Pistol primers and I will load with data from Alliant using an OAL of 1.27 and work my charges up as per safety stuff.

Maybe I am just being paranoid but in any case at least I will have my father to help me through the process next week.

thanks again!

J.T.

**Mal H** · April 6, 2000, 02:18 AM

J.T., when dealing with handloading and guns in general, paranoia is your friend. I sincerely hope I never loose mine. It's what makes you double check your powder charge, double check the chamber for a round, etc., etc., etc. But you can still have a heck of a lot of fun along with the paranoia.

WESHOOT2 · April 7, 2000, 08:40 AM

Load data from Alliant is to be considered MAX; start at 7.0g and work up SLOW.

Recommend saving your nickel cases for different loads; try IMI brass cases for your 'hot' loads.
Make sure sure sure you have sufficient case neck tension on those 'hot' rounds; bullet setback will make pressure skyrocket, and generally cause a bad day. Suggest an undersized "U" resizing die from Lee; crimp will NOT hold a bullet tight.

Different bullet materials definitely affect pressure and velocity, which is why there is the oft-repeated warning "work up slow".

You are fine with the W-W primers. Power Pistol is an excellent 45ACP powder. Best cases are IMI. Suggest/recommend finishing using a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die.

Overall length might need modification, but 1.270" is a good starting point.

Safety glasses...safety first...have fun!

------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"

johnwill · April 9, 2000, 04:20 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by J.T.King:
[B]I use Corbon 230 +P as carry ammo.

IMO, I'd think twice about using Corbon as carry ammo. If quality SD ammo, like Remington Golden Saber or Federal HydraShok doesn't do the job in your .45, Corbon isn't going to do it either. Corbon has also had quality control problems a number of times in the past. When I need my gun in a SD situation, I want to know I have reliable ammo.

April 2, 2000, 04:49 PM	#1
J.T.King Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 345	Hello! I am about to try reloading with my father for the first time (he has reloaded for the last 6 years). What I am wanting to reload is 45cal +P in FMJ. I have purchased Remington nickel-plated +P brass. and Remington 230gr FMJ bullets. But I cant figure out what kind of primers or powder to get and I cant find load data for 45cal+p using remington 230gr FMJ. Can I use any load data for 230-gr +p FMJ? Or do I need Remington data only? I have found loading data for 45+P for other bullets but there is always a disclaimer that you cant mix and match components. I understand that about powder, but how much does it matter for bullets or for primers? Please help! I am leaving to visit my father in two weeks and I have between now and then to gather all the materials I need. Thanks! J.T.

April 2, 2000, 07:11 PM	#2
char923 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2000 Location: Anchorage AK Posts: 237	The bullets from different compary, a lot of them use different jacket material and different hardnees. harder and the thickness of the jacket will make more bore drag in and the pressure go up.

April 4, 2000, 04:13 PM	#3
J.T.King Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 345	OK guys, we just loast all of the last two days posts it seems. There was REALLY good info on here about my problem and like an idiot I didnt preint it off. Who would have thunk that TFL would have a crash? Please, please, please help! Thanks! J.T.

April 4, 2000, 10:29 PM	#4
STRIDER Member Join Date: March 12, 2000 Location: Prescott, Arizona Posts: 58	If you have to ask about reloading +p, DON'T! If you want +p use factory. I would think twice about using +p for several reasons: 1-It kicks more and is harder to control 2-Often times it has more muzzle flash 3-It puts more wear and tear on your gun 4-It probably won't stop a bad guy any faster than regular ammo. 5- there is not a lot of (if any) sanctioned data on +p from the powder manufacturers (there's a reason) Try some Winchester Supertarget or 231 with Winchester Large pistol primers. There are many other great components out there. If you use a conservative load from a manual you can interchange bullets of the same weight and type. Good luck and be carefull. [This message has been edited by STRIDER (edited April 04, 2000).]

April 5, 2000, 01:14 AM	#5
J.T.King Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 345	Thanks for the reply... I'm firing this out of an HK USP45f. I do not fire a whole lot of rounds (not a competitor, just about 100 rnds a month for practice andthen self-D). I use Corbon 230 +P as carry ammo. I would like to reload a balistically similar round for my practice. I DO have load data from alliant for 45acp +P using power pistol powder, but it is for an unspecified FMC bullet and all my bullets are FMJ. I know that at least there is a difference in OAL from the FMC to the FMJ. most 45acp load data suggests an OAL for FMJ of 1.26-1.275 as opposed to the alliant load data for FMC that says 1.19 Can I load these +P rounds with the FMJ from remmington if I use the round nose 45acp OAL listed at 1.275 and I start with a backed off powder charge by 10% and work my way up to it? I do have access to a chronograph and would obviously check for flattened primers and case damage. Next question... All the books say dont mix primers, yet all over the internet I hear of guys swapping out primers all the time to see if they can get more accuracy. My load data for the 45acp +P from alliant says to use Federal 150 primers but they are not to be found in my gun stores and are a special order for $32!!!! Virtually all the other primers (CCI, Remington, Winchester) are only $15 per 1000. Can I try a differnt primer? Please help! thanks! J.T. [This message has been edited by J.T.King (edited April 05, 2000).]

April 5, 2000, 02:17 AM	#6
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	J.T., if the primer question is your main question, it should be perfectly ok to substitute another similar primer for the Fed 150's. When the books say don't mix primers, I believe what they mean is don't change primers, or any component for that matter, without first backing off your powder load at least 10% and work up from there. IOW, don't substitute brand y primers for a load you've already worked up with brand x primers just because you ran out of brand x and need to load a few more rounds and have some brand y lying around. Most reloaders tend to standardize on one primer manufacturer anyway. The Fed 150 is a standard LP (not magnum) primer so any standard LP primer, such as WLP, should be fine (although Win says the WLP can be used with standard or mag loadings). It isn't necessary to use a LP magnum primer with any 45 ACP even a +P. As I said in one of the lost posts, you might want to get a copy of Midway's 45 ACP LoadMap. They have lots of loads specifically for the Rem 230 FMJ. You're on your own when experimenting with +P loads. When you start testing the edge of the envelope, several factors come into play that you don't normally need to worry a lot about - proper crimping, proper and accurate OAL, more accurate powder measuring, etc.

April 6, 2000, 12:08 AM	#7
J.T.King Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 345	thanks guys... I picked up a box of Winchester Large Pistol primers and I will load with data from Alliant using an OAL of 1.27 and work my charges up as per safety stuff. Maybe I am just being paranoid but in any case at least I will have my father to help me through the process next week. thanks again! J.T.

April 6, 2000, 02:18 AM	#8
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	J.T., when dealing with handloading and guns in general, paranoia is your friend. I sincerely hope I never loose mine. It's what makes you double check your powder charge, double check the chamber for a round, etc., etc., etc. But you can still have a heck of a lot of fun along with the paranoia.

April 7, 2000, 08:40 AM	#9
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Load data from Alliant is to be considered MAX; start at 7.0g and work up SLOW. Recommend saving your nickel cases for different loads; try IMI brass cases for your 'hot' loads. Make sure sure sure you have sufficient case neck tension on those 'hot' rounds; bullet setback will make pressure skyrocket, and generally cause a bad day. Suggest an undersized "U" resizing die from Lee; crimp will NOT hold a bullet tight. Different bullet materials definitely affect pressure and velocity, which is why there is the oft-repeated warning "work up slow". You are fine with the W-W primers. Power Pistol is an excellent 45ACP powder. Best cases are IMI. Suggest/recommend finishing using a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die. Overall length might need modification, but 1.270" is a good starting point. Safety glasses...safety first...have fun! ------------------ "All my ammo is factory ammo"

April 9, 2000, 04:20 PM	#10
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	[QUOTE]Originally posted by J.T.King: [B]I use Corbon 230 +P as carry ammo. IMO, I'd think twice about using Corbon as carry ammo. If quality SD ammo, like Remington Golden Saber or Federal HydraShok doesn't do the job in your .45, Corbon isn't going to do it either. Corbon has also had quality control problems a number of times in the past. When I need my gun in a SD situation, I want to know I have reliable ammo.