Pistol Stocked Shotguns, feast or foul?

RattleSnake Jake · May 25, 2006, 12:21 AM

Of what tacticl use (IYHO-In Your Humble Opinion) is the pistol grip/short barreled shotgun good for?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Hkmp5sd · May 25, 2006, 02:35 AM

Sore wrists. Missed targets. Give me a stock!

mete · May 25, 2006, 02:41 AM

I'll second that comment. Just another gimmick for the mall ninjas .

Maser · May 25, 2006, 03:50 AM

Simple, quick shots. Seeing as you point a shotgun and don't aim it you don't really need a stock. Of course i'm talking about an HD shotgun only. I would get thrown out of my trap club if I ever brought my Mossy 500 with HD setup to shoot there.

Recreational shooting with a pistol grip is some of the funnest shotgun shooting you will ever do. Just watch out for them Federal 3" 1 1/4 oz magnum slug loads. Them things are a real wrist buster.

Dave McC · May 25, 2006, 08:52 AM

Foul. Of greatly limited utility in the real world.

Jefs · May 25, 2006, 10:04 AM

A couple of weeks ago, I put a 'Pachmayr Vindicator Presentation' pistol grip on my 18" 870. I took it to the range, and was having a lot fun shooting Wolf 00 Buck into some cardboard against the berm until the grip broke leaving me with grip in my right hand and the receiver in my left. Oh well, stocks for me.

oletymer · May 25, 2006, 10:28 AM

They are good for people who don't know how to shoot properly.

hoghunting · May 25, 2006, 11:39 AM

I'll agree with oletymer. You don't see pistol gripped shotguns used by police tactical teams. Must be some reason. They learned how to shoot.

webbee · May 25, 2006, 05:20 PM

The exception would be the Knoxx CopStock recoil reducing pistol grip with wire frame stock. I have one and it's really fun to shoot, especially 00 buck one handed. I have it on a house gun with an 18.5 inch barrel.

RsqVet · May 25, 2006, 05:44 PM

Less than useful --- unless you are talking a pistol grip with stock such as the cop stock or the speed feed or any other number of designs out there, even many Benelli entery guns are set up this way.

The pistol grip on a stock aids controll and faster handeling, and if you want to shoot the gun unmounted it's easier though as others have mentioned this can hurt and is not the prefered way to shoot.

gunslinger555 · May 25, 2006, 07:12 PM

it depends shoot both then see wich one your more confertable with since its a shotgun accuracy um its kind of hard to miss with a shotgun

(at close ranges)

OldeSkool · May 25, 2006, 08:43 PM

Kay Ohye used to stand with his back to the trap house, call a bird, turn around and bust it, shooting from the hip.

take it for what its worth

Dave McC · May 25, 2006, 08:57 PM

Like many old guys with LE experience measured in decades, I know lots of other guys whose personal histories include time spent in harm's way.

I know military types, FBI agents,COs, cops and others who have visually observed the proverbial pachyderm.

Most have well worn shotguns with real stocks. Few if any have those with just a PG.

There's a lesson there.

And, chances are I've fired more rounds from the hip with a folded folding stocked 870 than the whole mizpocha of PGO fans here.

I was paid to do so, and to teach others.

The defense rests....

banditt007 · May 25, 2006, 10:44 PM

Perhaps as a door breacher only?

guy steps up unloads on the door and then helps another with a battering ram and then they step aside and let the rest of the team through?

Just a thought, i'm not S.W.A.T. member so i dunno how it all goes down.

paulweir · May 25, 2006, 11:22 PM

I have regular stocks on all my shotguns. I think the pistol grips must be a gimmick and a way to lower the cost of building some guns like the Mossberg 500 version that comes with one. Then later when the person that bought the gun realizes it doesen't work so well they get another parts sale if he buys a replacement regular stock from Mossberg.

Just_Parker · May 26, 2006, 01:18 AM

what about a pistol grip with a folding stock? wouldnt that be the best of both worlds?

gdm · May 26, 2006, 09:47 AM

where the distance wont exceed 20 feet,in dark hallways,under a cherry tree full of blackbids

..they are an up close and personal weapon,very limited in use for the shorty version.

Ive fired a super shorty version,wasnt real impressed,2-3xs as loud,recoil was about the same but hitting anything past 20 feet,forget it.

Minator · May 26, 2006, 11:12 PM

A pistol grip is pretty useless other than breeching, but even then there is always fire support for the breecher. Also you cant really control a pistol gripped shotty during rapid fire and even if you use low recoil buck your arms still going to be numb if you dont have a rock solid grip.

Bill DeShivs · May 27, 2006, 02:11 AM

Pumps are pretty limited in their use. A double 20 ga., like the old Ithaca Auto-Burglar gun can be useful and fun!
Bill

ewenog · January 9, 2009, 10:52 PM

Take a fixed buttstock shotgun, and lock the butt under your elbow. Feel how solid it is? Pivot from the waist when firing, and you're a gun turret. If someone grabs the muzzle and you're not clear to shoot, you can backstep and pull the weapon out of his hands or deliver a butt stroke to his groin or kneecap.
Walk towards a wall until the muzzle touches. Now switch off for a pistol grip. You'll have to back up at least three or four inches, because the pistol gripped gun sticks out more. Also, if someone gets inside the arc of the muzzle, all he has to do is grab the muzzle with his left hand, and the reciever with his right. Your right hand is open and weak to a pull from it's left.
He pulls with his right hand, blocks you from moving the muzzle with his left, and spins the gun right out of your left hand on the pump handle. Now you're looking at his pump gun. Bad guys practice these moves in slam, waiting to use them when they get out. They practice until it's muscle memory. It's always there if they get a chance.

Bill DeShivs · January 10, 2009, 02:26 AM

Gunslinger555-
Apparently, you haven't shot many shotguns......

nemoaz · January 10, 2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

it depends shoot both then see wich one your more confertable with since its a shotgun accuracy um its kind of hard to miss with a shotgun (at close ranges)

Yeah, who could miss with a shotgun at short ranges where the shotgun group may well be an inch or two?

Yes that was sarcasm. It also shows that some have you have never been to a range EVER apparently.

Hawg · January 10, 2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Pumps are pretty limited in their use

I dunno bout that. I find them pretty useful. Pistol grips are bout as useful as teats on a boar hog. Short barrels are useful in dense woods with a lot of undergrowth.

Tommy Vercetti · January 10, 2009, 10:08 AM

the great irony in these discussions to me are the guys who shoot the .454 Casull or the .500 S&W and wimp out when it comes to a pistolgrip shotgun

I have one but it came with the pistolgrip and I'm too busy with other projects to replace the stock just yet

zippy13 · January 10, 2009, 10:55 AM

a matter of perception

Many of us old school types were introduced to a detached pistol grip by the M-16 service rifle. It seemed to work well shooting the standard rifle positions. Previously, detached pistol grips were found on a variety of sub-machine guns. Others were introduced to detached pistol grips when boat loads of inexpensive Kalashnikov-type semi-automatic rifles were imported.

Government officials decided that cheap imported "assault rifles" were a bad thing, and decided to restrict them. But, how do you distinguish a bad "assault" semi-auto rifle from a good civilian semi-auto rifle? The government answer was simple: obviously, having a detached pistol grip was a key factor in differentiating the bad from the good, and the bad must be restricted. We've all seen some strange stock modifications to make foreign detached pistol grip stocks comply with illogical government importation standards.

Inspired by government intervention, the innocent detached pistol grip became a hallmark of the bad rifle. This soon expanded to shotguns,as well. Scatterguns with full pistol grip stocks were produced for the entry level market. Any inexperienced shooter could intutively tell, just by looking at the Wal*Mart display, an "assault rifle" looking shotgun with a synthetic, detached pistol grip stock must have a lot more whoopass potential than a conventionally stocked shotgun.

May 25, 2006, 12:21 AM	#1
RattleSnake Jake Member Join Date: May 24, 2006 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 19	Pistol Stocked Shotguns, feast or foul? Of what tacticl use (IYHO-In Your Humble Opinion) is the pistol grip/short barreled shotgun good for? Thanks in advance for your input. __________________ RattleSnake Jake To Lazy to Work To Nervous to Steal To Jelous to Pimp NRA Lifer

May 25, 2006, 07:12 PM	#11
gunslinger555 Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2006 Location: Lima, ohio Posts: 580	it depends shoot both then see wich one your more confertable with since its a shotgun accuracy um its kind of hard to miss with a shotgun (at close ranges) __________________ (")_(") OMG!!! I think I shot bunny in the face!

January 9, 2009, 10:52 PM	#20
ewenog Junior Member Join Date: January 9, 2009 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1	A wonderful answer to a question never asked. Take a fixed buttstock shotgun, and lock the butt under your elbow. Feel how solid it is? Pivot from the waist when firing, and you're a gun turret. If someone grabs the muzzle and you're not clear to shoot, you can backstep and pull the weapon out of his hands or deliver a butt stroke to his groin or kneecap. Walk towards a wall until the muzzle touches. Now switch off for a pistol grip. You'll have to back up at least three or four inches, because the pistol gripped gun sticks out more. Also, if someone gets inside the arc of the muzzle, all he has to do is grab the muzzle with his left hand, and the reciever with his right. Your right hand is open and weak to a pull from it's left. He pulls with his right hand, blocks you from moving the muzzle with his left, and spins the gun right out of your left hand on the pump handle. Now you're looking at his pump gun. Bad guys practice these moves in slam, waiting to use them when they get out. They practice until it's muscle memory. It's always there if they get a chance.

January 10, 2009, 02:26 AM	#21
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,934	Gunslinger555- Apparently, you haven't shot many shotguns...... __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

January 10, 2009, 10:08 AM	#24
Tommy Vercetti Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2004 Location: Fairhope, Alabama Posts: 1,119	the great irony in these discussions to me are the guys who shoot the .454 Casull or the .500 S&W and wimp out when it comes to a pistolgrip shotgun I have one but it came with the pistolgrip and I'm too busy with other projects to replace the stock just yet __________________ "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." Sinclair Lewis, (It Can't Happen Here, 1935) "Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

May 25, 2006, 02:35 AM	#2
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	Sore wrists. Missed targets. Give me a stock!

May 25, 2006, 02:41 AM	#3
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	I'll second that comment. Just another gimmick for the mall ninjas .

May 25, 2006, 03:50 AM	#4
Maser Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2006 Location: Mysterious Cities of Gold Posts: 920	Simple, quick shots. Seeing as you point a shotgun and don't aim it you don't really need a stock. Of course i'm talking about an HD shotgun only. I would get thrown out of my trap club if I ever brought my Mossy 500 with HD setup to shoot there. Recreational shooting with a pistol grip is some of the funnest shotgun shooting you will ever do. Just watch out for them Federal 3" 1 1/4 oz magnum slug loads. Them things are a real wrist buster.

May 25, 2006, 08:52 AM	#5
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Foul. Of greatly limited utility in the real world.

May 25, 2006, 10:04 AM	#6
Jefs Member Join Date: November 5, 2004 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 46	A couple of weeks ago, I put a 'Pachmayr Vindicator Presentation' pistol grip on my 18" 870. I took it to the range, and was having a lot fun shooting Wolf 00 Buck into some cardboard against the berm until the grip broke leaving me with grip in my right hand and the receiver in my left. Oh well, stocks for me.

May 25, 2006, 10:28 AM	#7
oletymer Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2005 Posts: 338	They are good for people who don't know how to shoot properly.

May 25, 2006, 11:39 AM	#8
hoghunting Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2006 Posts: 1,559	I'll agree with oletymer. You don't see pistol gripped shotguns used by police tactical teams. Must be some reason. They learned how to shoot.

May 25, 2006, 05:20 PM	#9
webbee Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2005 Posts: 218	The exception would be the Knoxx CopStock recoil reducing pistol grip with wire frame stock. I have one and it's really fun to shoot, especially 00 buck one handed. I have it on a house gun with an 18.5 inch barrel.

May 25, 2006, 05:44 PM	#10
RsqVet Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Posts: 2,474	Less than useful --- unless you are talking a pistol grip with stock such as the cop stock or the speed feed or any other number of designs out there, even many Benelli entery guns are set up this way. The pistol grip on a stock aids controll and faster handeling, and if you want to shoot the gun unmounted it's easier though as others have mentioned this can hurt and is not the prefered way to shoot.

May 25, 2006, 08:43 PM	#12
OldeSkool Member Join Date: April 18, 2005 Posts: 30	Kay Ohye used to stand with his back to the trap house, call a bird, turn around and bust it, shooting from the hip. take it for what its worth

May 25, 2006, 08:57 PM	#13
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Like many old guys with LE experience measured in decades, I know lots of other guys whose personal histories include time spent in harm's way. I know military types, FBI agents,COs, cops and others who have visually observed the proverbial pachyderm. Most have well worn shotguns with real stocks. Few if any have those with just a PG. There's a lesson there. And, chances are I've fired more rounds from the hip with a folded folding stocked 870 than the whole mizpocha of PGO fans here. I was paid to do so, and to teach others. The defense rests....

May 25, 2006, 10:44 PM	#14
banditt007 Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2006 Posts: 694	Perhaps as a door breacher only? guy steps up unloads on the door and then helps another with a battering ram and then they step aside and let the rest of the team through? Just a thought, i'm not S.W.A.T. member so i dunno how it all goes down.

May 25, 2006, 11:22 PM	#15
paulweir Member Join Date: January 8, 2006 Posts: 24	I have regular stocks on all my shotguns. I think the pistol grips must be a gimmick and a way to lower the cost of building some guns like the Mossberg 500 version that comes with one. Then later when the person that bought the gun realizes it doesen't work so well they get another parts sale if he buys a replacement regular stock from Mossberg.

May 26, 2006, 01:18 AM	#16
Just_Parker Junior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Posts: 13	what about a pistol grip with a folding stock? wouldnt that be the best of both worlds?

May 26, 2006, 09:47 AM	#17
gdm Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2005 Posts: 319	where the distance wont exceed 20 feet,in dark hallways,under a cherry tree full of blackbids ..they are an up close and personal weapon,very limited in use for the shorty version. Ive fired a super shorty version,wasnt real impressed,2-3xs as loud,recoil was about the same but hitting anything past 20 feet,forget it.

May 26, 2006, 11:12 PM	#18
Minator Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2005 Location: South Texas Posts: 462	A pistol grip is pretty useless other than breeching, but even then there is always fire support for the breecher. Also you cant really control a pistol gripped shotty during rapid fire and even if you use low recoil buck your arms still going to be numb if you dont have a rock solid grip.

May 27, 2006, 02:11 AM	#19
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,934	Pumps are pretty limited in their use. A double 20 ga., like the old Ithaca Auto-Burglar gun can be useful and fun! Bill

January 10, 2009, 10:55 AM	#25
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	a matter of perception Many of us old school types were introduced to a detached pistol grip by the M-16 service rifle. It seemed to work well shooting the standard rifle positions. Previously, detached pistol grips were found on a variety of sub-machine guns. Others were introduced to detached pistol grips when boat loads of inexpensive Kalashnikov-type semi-automatic rifles were imported. Government officials decided that cheap imported "assault rifles" were a bad thing, and decided to restrict them. But, how do you distinguish a bad "assault" semi-auto rifle from a good civilian semi-auto rifle? The government answer was simple: obviously, having a detached pistol grip was a key factor in differentiating the bad from the good, and the bad must be restricted. We've all seen some strange stock modifications to make foreign detached pistol grip stocks comply with illogical government importation standards. Inspired by government intervention, the innocent detached pistol grip became a hallmark of the bad rifle. This soon expanded to shotguns,as well. Scatterguns with full pistol grip stocks were produced for the entry level market. Any inexperienced shooter could intutively tell, just by looking at the Wal*Mart display, an "assault rifle" looking shotgun with a synthetic, detached pistol grip stock must have a lot more whoopass potential than a conventionally stocked shotgun.

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