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Old May 10, 2006, 02:51 PM   #1
Jiml3
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9mm. vs. rottweiler

I live on Long Island, NY and came across a very interesting story on the news last week. Apparentally this rottweiler was on the loose terrorizing the neighborhood again. It had done this 7 times before. The police answered the call and found the dog had chased a lady into her home and cornered her. The police entered the home with a rope loop on a pole to try and remove him safely. The dog turned his attention to the cops and started to attack and was hit with 4 shots before going down. One shot went into his chest. The other 3 were not detailed in the news report. The police were using 9 mm. hollow points out of their glocks. The dog was expected to survive.
Most of my semi autos are 9mm. and now I am not as confident with that caliber.

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Old May 10, 2006, 03:02 PM   #2
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I think the had a very bad shot placement. Shot in the chest doesn't mean death everytime, maybe they hit only the lung. Maybe the other shots hit muscle tissue or other non-lethal areas- (legs)
Whatever, my personal opinion is that 9mm is a little bit to weak comparing its data to other cartridges. Thats only my personal opinion.
Sure the 9mm is a very deadly round , but the 22lr is also deadly.

Hit the head and every dog is gone. Even with a low powered 22lr.
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Old May 10, 2006, 03:04 PM   #3
281 Quad Cam
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Why this about a dog? You don't have to look very far to find dozens of cases where 9mm, .40, or even .45 have failed to 1 shot stop. Maybe 9mm is less powerful than a .45... Maybe they are both spit in the ocean next to rifles. And humans have kept going after being hit with rifles.

Unless you are willing to move up to .44 magnum or rifles - accept the fact that none of these little pistol calibres are going to be effective at stopping pretty much anything.
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Old May 10, 2006, 03:10 PM   #4
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Dumb Neighbor

Last week I was leaving my apt. and heading the range, when a dumb ass neighbor told me that a dogs head/skull was bulletproof. He proceeded to tell me that you could shoot a dog square between the eyes and it wouldnt die. I just laughed, shook my head and than went to blow out some targets...
I dunno thought it was funny... guess you kinda had to be there....back to the posts...
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Old May 10, 2006, 03:13 PM   #5
Moloch
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accept the fact that none of these little pistol calibres are going to be effective at stopping pretty much anything.
Ok, pistol cartridges are weak, but stopping nothing? Are you serious?

I stopped a pretty big boar with my G35 with a doubletap to Heart & Lung. Dropped like a rock. ( 165 grain EFMJ, about 10yds)

After opening that boar the projectiles shattered some ribs pretty much. Pieces of bone everywhere inside and acceptable penetration.
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Old May 10, 2006, 03:23 PM   #6
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One isolated incident does not totally discredit the effectiveness of the 9mm round. After all, it has been proven through several wars on humans, dogs and many other creatures. Heck my friend shot a 400 Ibs black bear with a .22 LR and stopped it dead. Does that mean everyone should start hunting bears with .22s?

The FBI has conducted several studies, and have concluded that shot placement (not size of the round) is what matters most when it comes to stopping man, and I would think this rule would apply to 4 legged beasts as well.
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Old May 10, 2006, 03:34 PM   #7
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Dogs are pretty tough animals. I wouldnt drop a caliber from my collection based solely on performance vs. a large dog. Personally I think the officers would have done better spraying the dog with some sort of repellant, or amonia, then snare it while it is dissoriented and groggy. Another option would have been to seal off the area, surround it with stereo's and play Kevin Federline's cd as loud as possible continuosly until the dog came out cowering down with his tail between his legs.
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Old May 10, 2006, 03:35 PM   #8
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best way to stop a big dog is to wrap your left arm and hand real good with a coat or some other cloth and shove it in his face ,when he bites on it mace him or shoot him in the brain .works every time with out fail .
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Old May 10, 2006, 03:42 PM   #9
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The round did the job. The dog stopped. Why do you care if the dog died as a result of injury?

Shoot until the action that required you to shoot stops.
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Old May 10, 2006, 03:51 PM   #10
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"Hit the head and every dog is gone. Even with a low powered 22lr."

We had a case in Michigan a few years ago, where a man was trying to put down his older, small dog in his home. He shot it in the head with a .32, and then shot 2 more times as the dog just yelped in pain. The police arrived after receiving calls from neighbors, and the dog survived the incident.
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Old May 10, 2006, 03:53 PM   #11
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+1 on that comment Mark
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Old May 10, 2006, 04:24 PM   #12
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I was present at a dog shooting (Rottweiler IIRC). IIRC it was 9mm HP (may have been .38 spcl +P but I don't think so). One shot, less than 7 yards. Dog retreated and died many minutes later. Was a side-of-chest shot.

On 2 other occassions I was not present but informed by reliable sources that pit bulls were shot in the head under 15 feet away and the bullets (9mm HP) ricocheted off without effect. It took several body hits on those 2 occassions to stop the dogs from attacking. I don't recall if the dogs lived or not.

Given the shape of dog's head, depending on the angle of bullet strike, I don't think it's so unlikely that a bullet would ricochet and cause little or no damage.
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Old May 10, 2006, 04:35 PM   #13
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9mm or any round

practice with one handgun=shot placement which equals success
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Old May 10, 2006, 04:46 PM   #14
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I don't think the dog is going to wait around for you to get back with that ammonia dogs have no respect for "Time Out"
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Old May 10, 2006, 04:46 PM   #15
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Bad shot placement is the likely answer, and I can't fault the cops. It's probably very hard to hit a 2' x 3' fast moving target when you're trained to shoot 5-6' tagets in the COM.

And, in a handgun caliber anything but a head or heart/lung shot won't drop a large strong dog very quickly. Dogs (like Rotties) are VERY durable animals and can take a lot of punishment before going down.

And possibly the fact that 4 shots with a 9mm takes as little as 2 seconds, less with multiple officers shooting. Dogs momentum or addrenaline could have been carrying him for the final seconds before it fell.

The 9mm is still a quality round, and the MOST sold individual round in the world.

(That said, I carry a .40)
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Old May 10, 2006, 04:53 PM   #16
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I reckon a .30-'06 isn't a very good stopper either. I shot a big German Shepard a few years ago with an '06 and he ran home and was fine in a few days. The shot was nearly perfect, right behind the left front shoulder and exited through the right shoulder without breaking any bones. The bullet narrowly missed the heart and just hit the top of the lungs. He was back running around in 2-3 days. The bullet was Sierra 165 gr. BTSP at about 70 yards.
Boils down more to shot placement, than power.
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Old May 10, 2006, 04:59 PM   #17
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Dogs and Bullets

I know of one experience that happened to a friend of mine. He was walking on a rural road when a pit bull came out of the brush several yards in front of him. There was no mistaking the dog's intention, he started coming toward my friend. My buddy had his glock .45 out quickly and shot the dog once. The bullet went in the dog's chest at an angle and knocked the dog down. The dog got back up and came at him again. The second shot stopped and killed the dog. Even the venerable .45 won't always be a one shot stopper. Besides, dogs don't know that they are supposed to die when shot.
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Old May 10, 2006, 05:05 PM   #18
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Desert Scout,
What was the cause of shooting the German Shepard with an '06 from 70 yards? Was it a threat?



There may be some truth to the psychology behind being shot. Humans "know" what is supposed to happen and that may explain why irrational or drugged up humans don't always respond like they are "supposed" to whereas many people may react less to the actual physical damage and more to the psychological shock. Dogs (and game) may not always go down despite the large calibers because they don't know they are supposed to...

Interesting idea...
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Old May 10, 2006, 05:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Desert Scout,
What was the cause of shooting the German Shepard with an '06 from 70 yards? Was it a threat?
He was a chicken killer
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Old May 10, 2006, 08:29 PM   #20
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I've a similar story that happened to me a few years back now.I went home from work at about 0200am and thought i take a shortcut through an alleyway,which was known at the time to be a bit of a dodgey place,since all the hoodlums of Town where hanging out in that area.Anyway,i still went through there,when i heard a lot of shouting and glass breaking, coming from the general area where i was headed.After about 30 yards,i knew what the fuss was all about.Those F......ers were smashing up Vehicles that were parked in the area.So before i could retrack my steps ,one of those numbnutses sees me and starts walking towards me ,followed by a Tattoo-artist and his pet Rottweiler.To make a long story short:they told me that i would be able to pass through there area if i could outrun the dog?By the time he had his Rottweiler unleashed,i came out with my Army issued Glock17,9mm(which was mandatory for us to carry off Duty).The dog only made 5 or so yards before i put a 147 gr Hp into his chest and he was off to next life.No sound or movement emanated from the dog after i fired the first round.I put two more into him,while i walked towards them,just for deterent reasons than anything.I had to shoot two other dogs whilst on Duty but they were fired from MP5s,but the same bullets and i never had one twitch.I believe,bullet placement is critical,when shooting any critter that has bigger teeth than me.The 9mm is very capable when using heavy bullets like 147gr HP.
Probably,a 10mm or a 45ACP would be a better choice to hush a puppy,but you gotta use what you have got.
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Old May 10, 2006, 08:32 PM   #21
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A gun store worker I've spoken to and doesn't seem full of crap visits relatives in North Carolina. While out in the boonies fishing, feral dogs can be an issue. He said the problem with most handgun rounds is over-penetration - just like that .30-06 going through everything, hitting nothing vital (though close).
He recommends MagSafe.
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Old May 10, 2006, 09:40 PM   #22
guardsman012301
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Quote:
accept the fact that none of these little pistol calibres are going to be effective at stopping pretty much anything
I disagree sir, a .357 JHP would be very effective, so would a .45 JHP.
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Old May 10, 2006, 09:52 PM   #23
JJB2
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yep you're right...... i'm thinkin my 6" model 27 with 158 gr. jsp will stop a dog really fast..... if i can only hit him
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Old May 10, 2006, 09:53 PM   #24
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now not as confident

the 9mm makes no sense to me. well unless you were just going to use it for target practice at the shooting range. It is not a defense round. And you have to use three times as many 9mm as you would one .45.
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Old May 10, 2006, 09:54 PM   #25
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the 9mm makes no sense to me. well unless you were just going to use it for target practice at the shooting range. It is not a defense round. And you have to use three times as many 9mm as you would one .45.
That has GOT to be the silliest thing I've heard on this board yet.
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