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Old March 20, 2006, 01:22 AM   #26
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I'm getting pretty close to Master Class in IDPA, but on occasion I really like to take the AR to the rang and bump fire a few hundred.......

Life's too short not to smile. Besides, not everyone buys a gun as a defensive tool.
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Old March 20, 2006, 09:24 AM   #27
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I just watch for safety, normally. One time some guys were firing a Hi-Point carbine with a ridiculous stance that had the muzzle at about the same point horizontally as everyone else's bodies! I just pointed out the yellow line and they understood. Then the one not firing asked me if my 2" J-frame .38 is "better than a Glock." I just answered "it depends."

I was amused yesterday at the stance of a girl at the range. She was firing a Walther .22. She would stand up straight, grip the pistol in an isoceles, then lean back into what appeared to be an uncomfortable position. I think she was doing it to get her sight picture.

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Old March 20, 2006, 10:05 AM   #28
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sounds like my wife

"She would stand up straight, grip the pistol in an isoceles, then lean back into what appeared to be an uncomfortable position. I think she was doing it to get her sight picture."

That sounds like my wife. The first time we went to the range I let her shoot a few clips however she wanted (and she was leaning way back to get a sight picture), then started gently straitening her back out before she started shooting the next few. A word of advice to anyone taking a wife/girlfriend to the range for the firt time: #1 for her first shot, load one round only. Let her get a feel for a shot before giving her the opportunity to jerk off a few shots out of surprise from the first one. #2 make sure she doesn't wear heels. #3 If you ever want her to go again, don't hand her anything over a 9mm. A .22 would be ideal. Let her get a feel for it and work her way up. #4 Success is the best way to get her interested in coming back. I bought lasergrips for my 229 before her first trip, sighted them in, and after shooting 4 clips or so without any great groupings (she did hit the target though, surprised me), I turned on the laser for her. She did pretty darn good with that. Got a big smile out of her. She now has her own gun, a sig 239-smaller grip than mine, with laser sights. She shoots with me about wice a month and works on getting better with iron sights, but when she gets frustrated, she justturns on that laser and gets a feel-good target grouping. I'm sure that if I had handed her my 45 the first time out, she wouldn't have been back.
Anyhoo thats my $.02
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Old March 20, 2006, 09:49 PM   #29
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I put a red dot on the .22 for my girl and she diddnt like it much, took it off and we went back to using the sights. Ive always maintained that she was a keeper
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Old March 21, 2006, 08:36 AM   #30
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Watching other shooters is entertaining.

First off I really believe it is a mistake to teach a sig. other the basics of shooting. Just like teaching a son or a daughter to drive! Bad Ju Ju!

Next off the guys that blow through ammo, I wonder about? I have watched 1K of Rem UMC bulk packs blown down range as fast as possible!

Next off it is very true some people have too much pride, well it is a man thing to not ask directions or for help!

I only offer help when asked. If someone is a danger to others on the range, I retreat and let the range officer deal with it! That is their job!

I shoot at ranges on the off hrs so I avoid a lot of dangerous actions.

I have been caught in the airlock between the range and the range desk. I mean this one guy wreaked of alcohol! How the range officer did not smell it was beyond me?

It is easy to be critical of people, but we need all the shooters. We can not snub certain populations so to speak!
Like to see a DU/PF/REMF sticker on a SUV and at the same time a repeal concealed carry sticker on the same SUV!

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Old March 21, 2006, 08:53 AM   #31
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It's mostly all good for me. Last time I was at the range, a fella was trying to teach his wife and teenage daughter on a short barreled Glock 40 cal, and they were all having quite the time-even him, trying to keep it on the paper at 15 yards.

I didn't want to make the guy look bad in front of them, but during one of the breaks, I asked him if he would like to have them try out my Gold Cup and both of them, after a few shots were putting out some pretty decent groups. The wife turned to him and said, "I wanna trade this thing off for what he has!" Daughter is nodding her head in agreement like a bobble doll in the rear window.

Confirmed what I already thought. Try not to put a lightweight, short barreled pistol in the hands of a first time shooter-it really frustrates them and don't be surprised if they start flinching or anticipating recoil long before the shot.
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Old March 21, 2006, 12:02 PM   #32
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David you are spot on in your post about starting out. I always start folks out on .22LR and let them learn the basics. It is also a lot cheaper to learn with a .22.

As for observing other people, well........, lets just say at times I have to do so. I am an NRA RSO and the club has me do range duty as people are coming out to sight their firearms in. I get frightened quite a bit by peoples behavior. I am quite surprised by the amount of ignorance concerning safety on the range. Range Duty is not my favorite activity needless to say.
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Old March 21, 2006, 12:37 PM   #33
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As for observing other people, well........, lets just say at times I have to do so. I am an NRA RSO and the club has me do range duty as people are coming out to sight their firearms in. I get frightened quite a bit by peoples behavior. I am quite surprised by the amount of ignorance concerning safety on the range. Range Duty is not my favorite activity needless to say.
I am not adverse to a gun range requiring shooters to attend a basic gun safety course prior to using the range. I realize it would impose certain costs, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen RSOs have to tell people not to hold a semiautomatic pistol with their thumb sticking up right behind the slide. Thankfully, I've never seen anyone actually injured at a range, other than the occasional "hammer bite," but I imagine that some guy making a trip to the hospital for an injured thumb would probably make for worse news than spending 10 bucks or so on a safety course that addresses range rules and common errors seen at the range.
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Old March 21, 2006, 01:54 PM   #34
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I guess because I'm new to the area, I try to not to be overly observant. I don't want to be percieved as being intrusive or anything.

When walking to my lane, I will try to take a sneak peek at what others are shooting, just out of curiousity. I can't always judge how people are so I don't get into conversations over their hardware.

When in my lane, I do tend to look at other peoples target, just to see how good they are. Always feel better when others are as bad as me. When I see someone punching out the bullseye, I will kind of nonchanlantly walk over and observe thier style...I'm one of those currently teaching myself to be a better shooter. So I try to pick up hints on posture, grip, etc.

Haven't run into too many yahoos...none really. The range I go to is pretty laid back and they seem to have a respectful clientele. The one time I observed someone teaching his girlfriend/wife/S.O, he was a damn good shot!! She had quite a few bullseyes so I would load my mags slower to hear his advice since it was obviously working.

But I also would welcome any pointers from experienced shooters at the range. If you're in the dallas area, just look for the raggedy U of Ala. hat...that's me!
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Old March 21, 2006, 02:06 PM   #35
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As long as they follow the four rules, I care not at all if other people at the range are only interested in turning lots of money into noise very quickly. None of my business.
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Old March 21, 2006, 03:38 PM   #36
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I will practice 2+1 sequences at the range for 25-50 rounds on a COM target at 25 feet or less.

I will practice even, paced, 1-shot-per-second on a COM target at 25 feet or less.

I will practice slow fire drills at 25 YARDS for a mag or two on a Bullseye.

And I will rapid-fire empty a mag into a 15 foot target COM.

For 2+1, my goal is everything in COM and head. Same for the 1shot/sec drill. Slow fire is an attempt to make one ragged hole at 25 yards, and rapid fire is just to unwind after trying to shoot so precisely.

Each has its place, but if someone breaks into my bedroom and is 10 feet away when I get my gun, that 2+1 or rapid-fire to slide lock technique may pay off.
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Old March 21, 2006, 04:23 PM   #37
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To each his own

I check out what people are firing and how. I observe the skills of the shooter first and then if I think the guy or gal knows what he's doing, I may ask about his firearm. Learned a lot about guns I've ben interested in by watching them in action and discussing them with their owner. I'm lucky in that I have access to a few different types of ranges. There is an old sand pit range near me that everyone goes to get out some stress. Guys put up jugs of water, bowling pins, all kinds of stuff on a birm 100 yards away. Gotta say its kind of fun to go there every once in awhile. Then there's my indoor range, whcih is a graet facility to seriously train with your pistol. I never see people behaving poorly or dangerously there. I'm a pretty good pistol shot (Dad taught me well--his department sent him to the FBI marskmanship school back in the 60's, and he's still a one hole shooter) but I see some truly great pistol shooting there. Then there's another range I use when I'm serious about rifle shooting. It has a no rapid fire, 5 rounds per mag policy. Its where you go to see the benchrest guys and competition guys doing their thing.
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Old March 21, 2006, 05:10 PM   #38
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At my range...

At my range, the majority of shooters are "walk-ins". They walk in off the street and figure they'll give shooting a go. They quickly learn that it's not as easy as they make it out to be on television and the movies. I often hear them comment about how it's hard to do.

Then there are the "serious" shooters which makes up a small percentage and they bang away at 25 yards in their perfect target shooting stances and group their shots respectably. No rush, no sense of urgency. And that's ok because they're target shooting.

Then there's the even smaller percentage of shooters that show up with their stock pistols and set their targets at contact distance, shoot from retention, practice malfunction drills and return their pistols to concealment holsters. And that's cool too.

The more people that can appreciate shooting and the shooting sports the better for all of us because these are the people that take the time to educate themselves unlike the ignorant that go on to recommend laws that are just plain 'wack".

Personally, I don't care how others shoot because if they're happy with their poor shooting skills, that means that's one less threat to me.
"The only thing you can assume about a broken down old man is that he's a survivor." -- Joseph Sarno "The Way of the Gun"
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Old March 21, 2006, 08:49 PM   #39
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I think the other shooters are watching me, LOL!

My indoor range does not go out to 25 yards. The farthest you can push the targets is 50 feet (a little less than 17 yards). This talk of shooting handguns at 25 yards has me confused . I can't imagine even seeing the target at 25 yards, much less being able to hit it with a bullet. Isn't that what rifles are for?

Almost everyone at my range puts their target at 21 feet (7 yards), and yes, as far as I can tell, most of them can't hit squat at that distance. They're all over the place. I am a serious shooter (even though I am not good at it) in the sense that I practice regularly, mostly with .22, want to hit what I'm aiming at, and become disgusted when I can't.

However, I am interested only in the self-defense use of the handgun. I have never hunted and don't see the point in trying to hit a bullseye at a long distance with a handgun (not that I wouldn't be elated if I could). Most of my practice happens at that very embarrasing distance of 21 feet, just like everyone else at my range, and I work on hitting the target with single shots, double-taps, triple-taps, and quick reloads. I've gotten to the point where I can actually shoot "groups" at this distance, with the right gun. Whooo hoooo!

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Old March 21, 2006, 08:59 PM   #40
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I regularly see shooters with rifles set up their targets at 15 feet, and then blast all over the place. Some of them can put all of their bullets almost in the same big hole (between the eyes of the Bin Laden target) at that range, but some of them are all over the place.

One time, I was set up next to a 19-ish year-old guy with his dad and an AK-47. They had their target set up at 15 feet, if that, and couldn't hit squat, if you can believe that. After this kid shot and broke the cable holding up the target , they moved these guys to a new lane on the other side of me, where they lost the magazine on the range, and the officer had to call for a cease fire .

I suck at shooting, no doubt, but I'm way better than most of the people I see there. People at my range, on the whole, don't really shoot, they just send bullets downrange. That's why the "groups" at 25 yards don't seem real to me.

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Old March 24, 2006, 10:08 PM   #41
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If your groups are small, you could be shooting faster. Unless you are a bullseye shooter or something. That said, if someone can't stay on paper, they should slow down.

Honestly, if the guy next to me is being safe, I could care less how what or why they are shooting. It's really none of my business. If they are a safety hazzard, then it becomes my concern, but otherwise why would anyone feel the need to intrude on another person that is paying good money on a gun, ammo and range time? Also, why would I want to waste my valuable(expensive) range time staring at some other goobers silly stance? If they ask me a question I'll answer, if not and everyone is being safe I like to concentrate on my shooting.
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Old March 25, 2006, 02:13 AM   #42
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I dont think anyone goes to the range to stare at other shooters, I just observe people around me naturally. Certain people just draw attention to themselves, if I ever go to the range and the guy shooting 14 rounds in 6 seconds has a 2 inch group Ill still pay attention to him but for a different reason. Maybe I can learn from him.
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Old March 28, 2006, 09:26 PM   #43
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I'm fairly new to handguns, i grew up on rifles and shotguns, but handguns and the range are something I picked up just after i turned 21 last year. I was in the Army for awhile and grew up around LEOs and ex-military so gun safety and respect was something i was taught very young. My range experiences so far have been pretty good, but I do notice that alot of other folks either don't seem to know all of what they are doing or just don't care. If you wanna blow through 100 rounds of ammo as soon as you can load and fire it that's your perrogative, not my business. I do however get nervous around the guys who seem to act like it's just a cool thing to do and do dumb stuff like load the gun then walk out of the booth holding it with their finger on the trigger. (I got someone kicked out for that a few weeks ago actually) That always kinda makes me watch them before i fire to see what their intentions are stupidity or animosity. I have one handgun a Taurus .38 and I try to shoot for accuracy more than anything else because i wanna be confident to know that if i can hit the bullseye 9 out of 10 shots on a range i can hit a BG as many out of 5 as possible if i ever need to.
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Old March 28, 2006, 10:08 PM   #44
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I first started owning and shooting my guns at my nextdoor indoor range a year ago.

My dad owned guns for years, but I never knew about it until my brother found his .357 and 9mm one day...but needless to say, he only took me to the range once before I started owning.

I usually go during off hours so that I have the place to myself because this range will get jammed packed around 4pm and weekends. I do this so that I do not make a fool of myself and to avoid idiots.

I take my time with my revolver and my aim to be as accurate as possible, not to see how many rounds I can burn through in 15 mins. I like to mark my groupings and test out different ammos.

I did have a strange experience last year when I went with my friend who was range testing some different loads for his deer rifle. We spent hours there testing up to 100 yards.

Halfway through the testing, some dumbass comes to the stall next to us and just starts to burn through his ammo like no tomorrow. He really thought he was something special (even though his target did not show it) and he seemed very reckless.

After a while, my friend brought in the target from about 30 yards and started to mark the groupings...he stopped and motioned me to check it out. There were 8 holes on the target when my friend had only shot 5 rounds. He waited for the guy to reload, then confronted him about the issue...the guy just laughed and said he was curious if he could hit a target at that friend just snapped at him saying that he was testing loads and his sights and that if that idiot wanted to test out his accuracy at 30 yards, then he should move his own target back that far.

Of course, it did not end there. After I shot a few rounds and was bringing in the target, the idiot unloads about half his clip into the target, knocking it to the ground from the holding clips. He was "trying to hit a moving target".

I did my best to keep my cool because it is not wise to get into a fight at the damn gun range and luckily, the RO came in and asked the idiot to leave because he had seen the whole thing. The RO even made it up to us by not charging us for the time that day (would have been $24 per person.)
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Old March 28, 2006, 10:18 PM   #45
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The only shooters I worry about about are the unsafe, irresponsible ones. The rest can be taught or learn. Sometimes shooting is all about the fun of the noise and the smell of burn't powder. We don't all shoot for groups all the time.

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Old March 28, 2006, 10:50 PM   #46
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I just watch to make sure I'm not getting yet another firearm pointed at me by some random stranger. That irks me a little, but I try to remain calm most of the time. Otherwise, I don't worry about other shooters. Usually they are paying attention to me for pointers!

One of my favorites was the day I was at the range with my Glock and a bunch of local LEOs were training. An older gentleman with a Glock 22 or 23 on his hip made a comment about 9mm being a good lady's gun. I emptied a mag into the head of a silhouette at about 7-8 yards, as fast as they were shooting COM at that range. The comments from the "all-knowing" police officers stopped!

And then there was the time my friends didn't think anybody could ring the 100-yard gong with a pistol. Same Glock 17, and I put 8 out of 10 on it offhand on my first string. Just shrugged it off and said "Practice. Always about practice."

But yeah, mostly I make sure the shooters around me aren't pointing firearms where they should not be pointed, or are not presenting an immediate danger of tossing a round out of the range. (It's been done a few times by those who love to bump-fire and those who don't watch their muzzle.) I've offered to help people, but most males will not accept advice from a little "kid" and most females are too intimidated by the time their friends are done with them.
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Old April 1, 2006, 05:03 PM   #47
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I'm fairly new to shooting and am far from good. I'm definitely not the worst person there, but have a lot of work to do to be good. I place my target no further than 7 yards and shoot very slow. I try to take my name and work on trigger pull, grip, not flinching, etc. If I put 50% or more of my shots in the center ring, I feel pretty good. I don't exactly have a tight grouping, but am pretty conistent with shooting a bit to left (except for the few bullets that really get away from me when i flinch or anticipate the shot).

I never rapid fire, but I have started working on double taps. My first shot is usually pretty decent, but my second shot is usually pretty far off and is not reallly consistent with where it goes, left, right, up down. If anyone has any tips on how to work on double tops I would love to here them. I usually only work on my double taps on my last couple of clips and just focus trying to hit the center ring. I always shoot at silhouettes, is there a better type of target I should use?

On the topic of observing others. I'm always looking at others targets and how they are shooting. The worst i've ever seen were a couple of guys that came in and starting shooting there 9mm and holding it "gangster" (sideways style) and shooting at the head of a target that was like 5 feet away and half the shots not even hitting the paper.
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Old April 10, 2006, 04:22 PM   #48
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I always check others folks out at the range, I do a quick sweep to see if there are any hot, giggling blonde women in really tiny bikinis firing automatic weapons and throwing their hair all in the video I got a few years ago!! Actually, I do observe others. I like to see what kind of gun they are shooting, often times they will let me fire off a few rounds from a gun that I have never shot before...last time at the range, there was some LEO with an AR-15 with a really cool scope, he let me fire a full magazine. I also got to shoot a BIGASSMUTHA .500 revolver...only took one shot outta that boy to convince me that I don't like em!!!
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Old April 10, 2006, 04:51 PM   #49
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Sorry, I don't get this concept

Unless someone is being unsafe (which I WILL not tolerate),

WHO CARES whether they are shooting what we think is the "appropriate" way or not????

Just because I'm not anal retentive about my grouping, doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed on the range.

The problem at ranges is the same problem that exists in chat groups...the people that think because they are the "expert's or because they have ten thousand posts, they can tell everyone else what to do.

Shooting is supposed to be fun and a fundamental right. The biggest danger to encouraging more Americans to do more shooting is quickly becoming the range and board nannies...

If I'm not doing anything illegal or dangerous then please...bugger off!!!

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Old April 10, 2006, 07:33 PM   #50
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Hell...I just make sure they're not doing anything unsafe and leave it at that. I don't really think it's for me to judge their abilities.
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