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Old January 10, 2006, 10:19 PM   #1
Mikeyboy
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Glaser v Magsafe

So far I have been using Glaser and the 7 rounds (worth approx $24 ) that I have fired in my 9mm Taurus PT-92, so far have worked well. Anyone have any problem with Glaser??? What about MagSafe??? If I find them I will try them out.
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Old January 11, 2006, 10:37 AM   #2
RandyDTC
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What is your intended use for them? Personal protection?

Aside from an unlikely CNS hit, bullets must cause massive bleeding through tissue damage to be effective. A bullet must be able to penetrate deep enough in the body to reach the vital organs in one of the 'critical areas' to cause a rapid incapacitation. From a frontal direction, with an average sized person, you are looking at 8" or so to get to the heart and major blood vessels. From a less than desirable angle (through an arm, let's say) that figure easily goes up to about 14". These figures do not factor in the additional resistance caused by clothing or bone that would be hit on the way in.

The safety slug is comprised of a thin jacketed cavity, shot, and a plastic cap.



Here is an image of a safety slug fired into bare gelatin. Note the depth of penetration as indicated by the ruler at the bottom. There isn't sufficient penetration to reach the vital organs from even the best-cast frontal direction.



Here is a side-view X-ray of a person's buttock area after having been shot with a safety slug. Notice the depth of penetration - or the lack thereof. Keep in mind this is only soft muscle tissue.



Here is an X-ray looking at the same area from the rear.



Now, given the penetration of these things in bare gelatin and soft muscle tissue, do you think that same slug would have penetrated the sternum or a rib and gone deep enough to get to the heart or major blood vessels? Not very likely.

The safety slugs will not penetrate deep enough to reach the vital organs. They are therefore, in my opinion, not adequate for law enforcement nor personal protection usage.

Randy
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Old January 11, 2006, 11:34 AM   #3
geneinnc
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YIKES. That butt shot would put me down! Now that has to smart. I guess that guy was lucky it wasn't on the other side
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Old January 11, 2006, 12:08 PM   #4
Mikeyboy
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Randy we have already had threads on the effectiveness of Glaser type rounds and quite frankly the results, like any other ammo is mixed. I have seen where a Glaser was ineffective, where it kill or at least incapacitated, and even cases where due to its nature it did significantly more damage then a regular round making it more lethal. I do like the photo you provided.

Unless the BG is obese 14 inches in the COM will go out the other side, however you do have a valid point, in a combat situation , where you want your enemy dead the more penetration going through body armor, meat and bone the better.

However why do have glaser as the first 2 rounds of my magazine in my home defense gun. Why?? Because my gun is in my bedroom and only 4 sheets of drywall and some 2x4s seperate my room and my kids bedroom. A regular JHP 9mm round will penetrate into there room if I miss and might still penetrate if I hit the BG (the reason I use 115g over 124g or 147g) Even if a double tap of Glaser in the BG chest doesn't kill the guy but puts the guy in a world a pain and get surrenders, I'm still satisfied.
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Old January 11, 2006, 12:19 PM   #5
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I fully agree with RandyDTC

I have personally X-rayed and photographed many gunshot victims, one of whom sustained a hit on the right upper arm, triceps area from a bullet of the Glaser/Magsafe/Prefragmented family. In that case the triceps muscle alone was sufficient to prevent any penetration of the chest (the victim was shot from the side). The only chest involvement was a few fragments that were lodged subcutaneously on the lateral aspect of his chest. Damage to the triceps muscle was extensive and much of it had to be removed, but the humerus was undamaged and there was no vascular damage to the arm or the chest. He was fully alert and responsive at all times, was not even treated in a resuscitation bay. I must advise everybody here not to choose ammunition like that for self defense.

@ All

On a related note, I am looking for Glaser/Magsafe/Insert Brand Here bullets. If somebody has these and can get them out of the cartridges without damaging them (I don't know if a ballistic hammer will work with those) I would like to buy those from you. I would only need 3 samples per calibre or per brand. I'll pay you for the full cartridge plus your time, and shipping to the UK but I can only accept the bullet itself for customs reasons.
Message me if you can help. Thanks.
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Old January 11, 2006, 12:22 PM   #6
OBIWAN
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Gelatin testing./approval standards are verified by actual shootings in real people

The standard penetration requirements for depth are based on the requirement to go through bones and muscle as well as the likelyhood that the person will not be facing directly at you and the bullet may pass through an arm, etc before entering the body.

Most all the frangible /low penetration ammo is not real impressive because it is designed not to penetrate
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Old January 11, 2006, 02:39 PM   #7
RandyDTC
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Mikey -
I don't read/post on this forum very often but I am sure there have been many threads. It seems to be a popular topic on all the boards I frequent.

I would be interested in seeing some of the data you mentioned regarding the safety slug's performance. Do you have the pictures, x-rays, or a source for them?

Thanks!
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Old January 11, 2006, 02:51 PM   #8
pax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyBoy
However why do have glaser as the first 2 rounds of my magazine in my home defense gun. Why?? Because my gun is in my bedroom and only 4 sheets of drywall and some 2x4s seperate my room and my kids bedroom. A regular JHP 9mm round will penetrate into there room if I miss and might still penetrate if I hit the BG (the reason I use 115g over 124g or 147g) Even if a double tap of Glaser in the BG chest doesn't kill the guy but puts the guy in a world a pain and get surrenders, I'm still satisfied.
A couple summers ago, some friends of mine and I built a fake wall to shoot at with various ammunition. The wall was designed to mimic standard home, outside wall construction: 2x4 frame, panelling, sheetrock, air space, plywood, and siding. On the back side of the wall, we put a shelf with water jugs on it.

We then shot the wall at a distance of around 15 feet, which we figured was probably a good distance for an across the room shot.

Just like everything else we put out there, Glasers went through that wall.

I would not want to bet my children's lives on a couple sheets of dry rock stopping any bullet, not even a Glaser.

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Old January 11, 2006, 10:24 PM   #9
Mikeyboy
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Randy...found my original post with some links...the original thread was "Glasers for Mouseguns"...The last link will definately help for your research..Pax..I agree sheetrock is a poor barrier and I mention it in the post also...again there is no magic bullet (well except for JFK)...we just need to understand each rounds properties and use accordingly....If they made a bullet that would not penetrate sheetrock, but it penetrated and worked better that a Black Talon when it hit a human...I would buy a boatload.

Quote:
Here is some links regarding penetration of regular ammo and a 9mm glaser rounds. A 9mm glaser round went thru 6 boards of sheetrock. Isn't failure to penetrate walls the reason why I would spend so much money on glasers?? To be fair even the Glaser website admits that any projectile will penetrate sheetrock, glaser are meant to stop hitting something more solid like a wood stud or a door. Second link same website, water jug test, glaser round goes thru some clothing and enters a 1 water jug, and tears it apart, but fails to exit. However the Third link mentions various bullet wounds cause by glaser rounds. Nasty, Nasty wounds, If and this is a big IF, the bullet penetrates. In some circumstances Glasers were more lethal than a regular round, and in some less lethal but a wound regardless. I rather take a FMJ bullet in the stomach than a Glaser. The problem with Glasers in pocket calibers I think are bone penetration with a bullet hitting shoulders or even the skull. In a hostage situation I rather have a HP .380 instead of a glaser .380 and that is knowing that if the glaser was to pentrate the skull , it would do significantly more damage to the brain than a HP, The Glaser might just fracture the guys skull, give him a gaping, bloody wound and put him in a world of hurt, but not kill him. I think glasers are a good thing, just understand, as with every bullet, they have their good points and their bad. If you know what they are you can use that bullet effectively.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot13.htm

http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/glaser_ss.html
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