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January 9, 2006, 10:09 PM | #1 |
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long gun for home defense vs pistol
if something goes bump in the night do you grab a pistol or a long gun like a shotgun or rifle. on one side you have the stopping power of a long gun and sometimes hi capacity, on the other side if the BG is real close, he could grab your barrel and you'd be in for one hell of a wrestling match. I'm not going to bring up accuracy, because my house isen't big enough for that to matter. I read a lot of people who use a shotgun or ar-15 etc for home defense, but if you find yourself opening doors and turning corners, don't you give a lot up to the versatility of a pistol. another point, at this exact moment how many of you have a loaded pistol within reach, and how many of you have a loaded long gun within reach? I have a small child in the house, so I can't lean a loaded gun up against the closet wall, but I can carry a loaded pistol on my hip. just curious
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January 9, 2006, 10:21 PM | #2 |
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I work from home. I have no kids. I live on a big farm in the middle of nowhere. With that in mind...
Pistol is on my hip all day, every day. For things that go "bump" anytime. The AR-15 stays by the bed, for things that go "bump" in the night after I've gone to bed. Given the choice, I'd take my AR any time. The pistol just allows me to fight my way to the rifle (if it gets to that point...) |
January 9, 2006, 10:36 PM | #3 |
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I've done a lot of CQB and taken down quite a few houses...but my opinions are no better than the next guy's
I can tell you that short-stocking a carbine is just as effective for clearing a house as a pistol in terms of movement and versatility; plus you get higher-power rounds, you can put more toys on a carbine, and it just looks freaking sexy. In a pinch, isn't the time to be making that decision. Your strategy and primary/secondary weapon choice should be a conscious and deliberate thing, thought out in advance. All things being equal: I'd rather have a combat shotgun. I'm emotionally attached to the carbine, but that doesn't make it a better *all-around* home defense weapon. My argument against the carbine as a home defense weapon is that not everyone has the training to properly employ the damn thing...in the hands of a professional it's a highly dangerous surgical tool...to the novice it's just an overpaid rifle. You have to remember the devastating psychological effect that racking a round into a shotgun has on anyone that can hear it. It's quite possible that single sound alone will diffuse the situation. At the very least, it's going to force BG to re-evaluate his now precarious hold on life. Additinally, the shotgun will help mitigate less-than-precision accuracy if one is not as efficient with the carbine as one might think they are. And...lastly...the shotgun will produce this extremely aesthetic red lingering mist wheras a carbine will not It's all a matter of training and preference. If you really do know how to use the carbine, then by all means take the house down and clear the rooms. But just remember, there's always room for jello
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January 10, 2006, 01:12 AM | #4 |
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I much prefer a shotgun, which is handy next to the bed.
I tuck a 1911 in the pocked of the bathrobe before I go out so I have the best of both worlds. Anyone wants to grab thet 12 and pull it away from me is going to be real sorry. Sam
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January 10, 2006, 01:45 AM | #5 | |
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Quote:
All I feel like typing tonight is that is person with a pistol is very poorly armed vs a person with a shotgun/rifle, all other thing being equal. I would consider the pistol a "defensive" weapon and a shotgun/rifle an "offensive" weapon. Of course the best defense.....
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin Spc. Jeremy M. Campbell Died 9/1/2005 and the best DS ever MSG Matthew Ritz Died 11.23.2005 matthewritz.com For those who have had to fight for it, Life holds a special meaning that the protected will never know. (\__/) (='.'=) Someone set us up the bunny! (")_(") |
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January 10, 2006, 02:53 AM | #6 |
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long gun?
agreed! shotgun is the most effective in several ways. First, the presentation(sight, & sound) makes alot of bgs think twice, then think again(bgs by and large are not real bright!), second if it has to be used, it is Very effective in capable hands!
All that said, it is a matter of which you grab at the moment. Most perps do not want a confrontation with an armed resident, however sometimes there is no option left than to defend .At that time, the weapon you are able to use best, is best. A bat is better than nothing, but a firearm will give you a better chance to survive.
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January 10, 2006, 05:55 AM | #7 |
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Pickpocket brings up a good point...
In CQB and COMBAT, the pistol is a back-up... . |
January 10, 2006, 12:05 PM | #8 |
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Use what you train on. If you train alot with your AR or .45, then use it. A novice with a 12ga. is no match for an expert with a .38.
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January 10, 2006, 12:10 PM | #9 | |
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The only thing I'll ask is if your personal pucker-factor has ever jumped up when you're in a house and YOU hear the damn shotgun chambering. I don't consider myself a "pro"..but I'm pretty good at what I do, and all I remember thinking when I heard the sound was "Fuuuuuuuuuuuu$k"...
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Semper Fi- David Williams "Sabah al khair -- ismee Dave, ahnee al Shayṭān" Last edited by pickpocket; January 10, 2006 at 01:03 PM. |
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January 10, 2006, 02:06 PM | #10 |
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I was always inclined to grab the pistol vs the shotgun because I feel more comfortable using the pistol. I changed my mind however after doing a shotgun match. Keep in mind that I did the same course earlier in the day using my pistol. It was mosty a course of steel poppers. After plinking the poppers earlier in the day and seeing them fall over lazily, seeing the aggressive knock down power of the shotgun made me a believer.
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January 10, 2006, 05:30 PM | #11 | |
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pickpocket
First of a guy w/ the balls to break into your home, possible ignoring alarms/dogs/screaming women/ect, while you are there is probably not the easily scared type. Second he is quite likely armed himself, not only the good guys have guns. Third you are giving away your posisition and as well as that fact that you are armed, so if he does have a gun chances are he will do everthing he can to use it on you. If you realy think the sound of the shotgun is going to make your average coked up thug run in fear I hope one never breaks into your house.
BTW- Quote:
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January 10, 2006, 06:26 PM | #12 |
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Shotgun. Pistol as backup.
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January 10, 2006, 06:47 PM | #13 |
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Inside Casa Mannlicher, middle of the night HD means a Colt's Commander with trijicon sights. If I anticpate going outside to check things, then the Bushmaster shorty is going.
So far as 'racking the shotty' goes.............. its not prudent. Internet BBS are just awash in myth, falsehoods, and half truths. This is one of them. What guns work for one guy just might not work for another. Choose handgun, shotgun or rifle based on your experience and training. Take into consideration the layout of your home, location (rural or city), do you live alone, and other pertinent info. Try to not make your choice based on what some stranger with unverified credentials says on a BBS. That will most likely get you killed.
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January 10, 2006, 06:53 PM | #14 |
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Blackwater, I can tell you from personal experience that it works. And yes, I was on the right end.
Maybe you're basing your opinion on going up against guys with Bad Mofo wallets. The rest of us tend to encounter less dangerous game: the kind for whom the sound of a pump-action is a very clear "You's gonna die, boy" signal.
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January 10, 2006, 08:32 PM | #15 |
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Hmmm, i probably would grab the shotty first when it's avaliable. The shotgun isn't always available because I'm not at home all the time. When I'm at my apartment all i have is my pistol.
And right now im at arms length from my pistol. (It's on my strong side). If I were at home I'd be at arms length from both a pistol and shotty. Now, i personally wouldn't go looking for the person in my house. I'd wait behind the edge of my bed for them to come to me. When i saw them come into the bedroom they's catch a load full of 16ga pellets.
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January 10, 2006, 08:42 PM | #16 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin Spc. Jeremy M. Campbell Died 9/1/2005 and the best DS ever MSG Matthew Ritz Died 11.23.2005 matthewritz.com For those who have had to fight for it, Life holds a special meaning that the protected will never know. (\__/) (='.'=) Someone set us up the bunny! (")_(") |
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January 10, 2006, 08:44 PM | #17 |
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Go ahead, grab my 12-gauge barrel, please.
After taking a combat shotgun course, I don't worry about wrestling with a bad guy for my gun. The instructor had class members try it. Nobody could get a gun away.
Consider this: 1) you have the handle part, he has the "boom" part, not designed to hang onto 2) step one, jam the gun forward to his chest, (optional: pull trigger now) 3) step two, if he tried to step to the side, immediately jerk back on the handle part and watch where barrel is pointing if he holds on (his arms will be extended, the barrel pointing at his chest) 4) Step three, pull the trigger and see how long he hangs on. The bad guy either lets go or gets a load of shot in the chest. |
January 10, 2006, 08:50 PM | #18 |
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Penetration
Just keep penetration in mind it can be especially powerful when using a long gun. One probably would not wish to shoot at the bad guy and have a stray round go through the wal and into your neighbor, (unless you don't really like that neighbor. )
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January 10, 2006, 09:00 PM | #19 | ||||
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Quote:
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Then again, to me the idea is to protect my home and my family, and if I can do it without getting the walls messy then that's just fine with me. Quote:
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As for being a "pro"...I may not be career SWAT, but I earned my stripes going door-to-door through three hostile Iraqi cities, so I picked up a thing or two....and you? My opinions are based on my perspective, my personal experience...I don't claim to have the right answer for anyone other than myself.
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January 10, 2006, 09:12 PM | #20 | ||
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Quote:
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BTW, what unit were you in, we might have run into each other somewhere.
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin Spc. Jeremy M. Campbell Died 9/1/2005 and the best DS ever MSG Matthew Ritz Died 11.23.2005 matthewritz.com For those who have had to fight for it, Life holds a special meaning that the protected will never know. (\__/) (='.'=) Someone set us up the bunny! (")_(") |
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January 10, 2006, 09:16 PM | #21 |
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Pickpocket I must go along with what you have to say. I to do not know everything and dont claim too. Im just basing my opinion off my experience. Ive been a SWAT operator for quite some time now and have been thru my share of doors. I am very comfortable with my carbine(AR-15 9X19 and Springfield Socom) as my home defense weapon, because thats what I TRAIN with and what I am confident with. If all some of you do is shoot pistols, then use the pistol as your weapon. If you are a person who uses the shotgun often, then use your shotgun etc.... I can go thru a door just as easily with my carbine as I can with my pistol. So all of this in a nut shell. Use what you are familiar with and what you are most experienced and confident with. The unknown weapon can cost you your life.
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January 10, 2006, 09:19 PM | #22 | |
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I'm not going to argue down this line any further...it was an opinion, not a policy statement. I will say this, though...many people tend to imagine having to defend their home from someone as skilled as themselves, and who would tend to make the same decisions as they would given certain criteria. I wouldn't say that's the best way to go about it. I Co. 3rd Bn, 4th Marines A Co. 1st Bn, 23d Marines If you're really Blackwater, then I doubt we ran into each other.
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January 10, 2006, 09:23 PM | #23 |
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Gerber MKII, just kidding, out of shape for that now. 835 ulti-mag loaded with duplex 6&4 3-1/2 mag. in the corner, Colt Commander in the nightstand.
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January 10, 2006, 09:33 PM | #24 |
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My opinion on racking the shotgun:
The first noise the BG hears should be his last. Pickpocket: What weapons did you guys use to clear those Iraqi houses (m4's, m9's, or do you guys have some shotguns too?) Chase
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January 10, 2006, 09:50 PM | #25 |
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In an apartment or in a "new construction" (plywood and vinyl siding exterior walls) suburb like mine you want to go low penetration, either a handgun or a shotgun, in the boonies I rather have a carbine. Personally I switched from a shotgun to a handgun for Home defense simply because I have a lot of funky hallways in my house, and a pistol is just easier. Also racking the slide on my full size semi auto pistol sounds just as threatening as a pump shotgun racking a round.
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