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Old December 11, 1999, 01:30 AM   #1
Shmacky
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Join Date: December 1, 1999
Posts: 14

I shot 100 rounds through my police buddies back-up Keltec P11 ankle gun. I was VERY impressed.

I had only (1) malfunction a "failure to extract" an empty round probably due to a low powder/weak reloaded round.

1 failure to extract/weak reload
0 failures to load
0 failures to fire/light strikes
0 stovepipes/jams
0 malfunctions due to limpwristing

I fired 25 shots exclusively "one handed" trying to produce a "limp wrist malfunction" , all 25 one handed shots were successful.

When I did "slow fire" drills while "stacking the trigger" almost firing in SA mode that little P11 was DAMN accurate! Wow.

The range was only 17 yards long. At this length while doing "rapid fire" drills I was able to place all 10 shots quickly into the "chest area" of a human sized target at maximum discharge rate.

The recoil was very tame! I was "expecting" my wrist to snap off during recoil. BOY was I WRONG!! After 50 rounds of super-light recoil I shot another 50 , total 100 rounds with zero after-effects. The trigger did not cause any damage to my trigger finger. The Meg-gar magazine was easy to load , springs worked fine.

The P11 was "FUN" to shoot , pure pleasure. I thought because of it's small size and a 14 ounce weight that it would be very unpleasant , I was dead WRONG!

The slide rails on the receiver/grip are aluminum , I would prefer them to be STEEL! The trigger pull is long but it has "tension" all the way through like a DA revolver type "tension".

The P11 does not have a "drop safety" which does bother me. If the P11 was dropped on it's muzzle would inertia compress the firing pin spring producing a AD? My police buddy says the firing pin spring would not compress enough to discharge? And he said "exposed hammers" on dropped pistols would produce AD's. But the P11 has an "un-exposed hammer" which is almost hidden from making any contact with any object. Sounds good to me.

I could have shot 200-250 rounds without any ill-effect due to recoil sensitivity. The .357 snubbies hurt like hell. As does my friends K40. The Glock 26 does not hurt but it will let you know it's bucking at it's discretion. The P11 was a pure joy to shoot almost like a trainer of sorts. Amazing!

I would like a Stainless P11 with nightsights and about 4-5 Meg-gar magazines. I would replace the guide rod with a metal one instead of using the stock plastic one. I might polish the breech face and ramp on the barrel. Maybe replace the recoil spring with a P40 spring for even more reduced recoil and more positve lock-up into battery with authority. If I could replace the firing pin spring with a higher poundage one , that would make me very HAPPY! The ultimate tool would be the "carry-clip" that attaches to the side of this little pocket rocket.

I can see why the P11 has such a cult following by devoted KTOGers!
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Old December 11, 1999, 07:21 AM   #2
Ken51
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I agree... it's a nice pistol. I shot one a couple months ago and found it quite likable.

It would be my choice for a small, inexpensive handgun. My first choice though is a Glock.
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Old December 11, 1999, 03:12 PM   #3
Walt Sherrill
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Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
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Most of the new P-11s are coming from the factory trouble-free, accurate, and very reliable.

I've had one for about a year and a half, and like it a lot.

I've been shooting IDPA some over the past four months, and early on tried mine there. I embarrassed myself. Shooting a P-11 in that type of situation, one-handed, weak handed, while moving, etc., will show you where you need work.

(Several months later I tried again and did quite well, so a lot of my early problems were clearly between my ears.)

If you haven't already done so, visit WWW.KTOG.ORG, the Kel-Tec Owner's Group website. It shows all kinds of useful improvements you can do yourself, tuning, etc., and you can subscribe to the KTOG user's list, a very imformative group.
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Old December 11, 1999, 03:55 PM   #4
tatters
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I bought my P-11 about this time of year 2 years ago. I am really pleased with mine. A great package and a great VALUE in a concealed carry type firearm. I liked it so much, I bought a P-32 and am just as happy with the VALUE of that little jewel as well. A bit underpowered, but a great
ultra-concealable pistol,too.

------------------
Have a Twinkie, snappahead---Ford Fairlane
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Old December 11, 1999, 07:04 PM   #5
rblack
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I saw some P11's at the gun show today for $219.00 NIB. I bought an extra mag for mine today from Pro Mag, it's going back tomorrow. It sticks out of the grip about 1/4 " and had problems just trying to get the rounds out of it. Stick with the MecGar mags that come with the gun.Rod Black
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Old December 12, 1999, 09:13 AM   #6
Axel Yup
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You do have to be careful with non-MecGar mags. I have two S&W pre-ban hi-caps which occassionally fail to feed in the P11. I just bought two MecGar mags to replace them with.

The P11 is a great little gun. I use mine for a pocket gun. Nice balance of firepower, small size, light weight, shootability and safety.

Axel
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Old December 12, 1999, 12:02 PM   #7
Rob43
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When Kel-Tec first went into production I was lucky and got to participate in evaluating the Kel-Tec 9mm. Shmacky, I beleive that if you were using full power carry loads you would find the recoil very similar to the Glock subcompact and there would be no failures. During testing the gun had no problems whatsoever and at half the price of the Glock. The only drawback was the (what I felt to be heavy) DAO trigger. But for close work it was more than adequate. No, didnt drop it on its nose while loaded or other such tests but I felt it was an excellent firearm. I would like to test the Kel-Tec against the Taurus Millenium which I havent shot yet nor the Kahr.
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Old December 13, 1999, 12:45 PM   #8
jtduncan
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Join Date: December 5, 1999
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Save an extra $150 and buy a gun that needs no gunsmithing. Why carry a gun that was designed to be made inexpensively? isn't your life or your family's life worth spending several hundred for?

You can get a used Glock 19 for $349. or even a Glock 26 for $399 and it too can be pocket carried but you hardly ever hear Glock owners tinkering at the high level you hear Kel-Tecers tinkering.

Departments where I've lived in California, Wahsington, Washington DC, and Ohio, will not allow their oficers to offically carry the Kel Tecs. Not reliable enough because all of the owners tell everybody on KTOG.

Maybe I would buy their Sub 9 but that's about it!

Save your money and buy a Glock or the new polymer Kahr [when it comes out] so when you pull the trigger, it goes bang!



------------------

The Seattle Shooter

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Old December 13, 1999, 06:47 PM   #9
daddy_bear
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Join Date: October 30, 1999
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Well, jtduncan, I'd say the worth of your advice is typified by your arithetic. Tell me again how I'm to save "an extra $150" by buying a $350 or $400 (used) pistol instead of a $200 (new) pistol? Oh, BTW, my P-11 has _never_ failed, to use your term, to "go bang."
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Old December 13, 1999, 06:55 PM   #10
pbash
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Daddy_bear, I think he meant save another $150, add it to $200 you already have, and buy a reliable gun. I have a P11 and while I like it, it is *not* anywhere near as reliable as the Sig P239 I have. The Sig has never jammed on me while the P11 has jammed several times in the first 100 or so rounds. I know the P11 can be made to work reliably, they just aren't garanteed to right out of the box like a Sig is. I for one intend to carry a gun I can rely on.
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Old December 13, 1999, 09:48 PM   #11
Red Bull
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Smacky- The KelTec P-11 has been drop tested by the factory. The internal striker is not heavy enough to ignite the primer. The firing mechanism is completely spring driven, not momentum driven. This accounts for the heavy trigger, which they consider a "safety" such as the kind you have on a revolver, and this accounts for the fact that the gun cannot fire by being jarred - the trigger must be fully pulled to charge the spring and fire the gun.

jtduncan- You speak as a person that has never owned one and probably never shot one. Your opinion was identical to mine before I owned one.

I have told this story before:
I got a new KelTec in a trade. I got it for a bit under $200. It had been fired a couple hundred times with no malfunctions. I knew the owner, and he had experienced no problems.
I threw on a Hogue Jr grip sleeve and a finger extension on the magazine. The P11 felt like a whole new gun with these additions! It fits my hand as good as any other gun I have ever owned. I put a pocket clip on there too, and that makes it very very handy.
When I got the gun, it was completely stock, right out of the box.

The first time I fired it, the paper target was at 12 yards. The trigger pull was heavy, but I took my time and placed ten rounds in one ragged hole!!! This is just as accurate of shooting as any HK or custom gun I have ever had. The GUN itself is *extremely* accurate!

Now, I have never spared any expense on my equipment or guns. I have owned $1500 custom 1911's, HK P7's, Sigs, Glocks, you name it. So, money is not an issue on my equipment. I thought that the P11 must be a piece of crap at the price it was going for. I had confused price with value, just like the people that think that HK's are better than Glocks just because they cost more.

The P11 has gained all my respect. Out of the box, the gun never hiccuped once in several hundred rounds now. I am a Dremel tool fanatic, so I was bored one day and I polished the ramp and chamber, but I do the same thing to my Glocks, even though they don't jam either. I am good at gunsmithing, so when I have the time I usually do a little work on all my guns.

The KelTec P11 is extremely accurate if you are with it. The trigger is brutal though, no doubt about it, just like a revolver trigger, and under rapid fire you lose accuracy unless you practice with it. But for close up, this is not an issue, you will easily be able to place bullets wherever you want within 7 yards. With practice you can do even better.

Reliability is not an issue. Mine is %100 reliable with defensive ammo and practice ammo. What else needs to be said?

I love my Glock 27, but it is hardly a pocket gun. The Kelt Tec P-11 really fits in the "pocket gun" catagory. The P-11 is lighter than the Titanium Snubby revolvers at only 11.9 ounces! It carries 10 plus 1 rounds of 9mm! That is a lot of firepower. I usually carry my hi-cap which is totally reliable, and it holds 12+1 rounds!!!
That's 13 rounds of 9mm in a totally reliable, simple to operate, very accurate and inexpensive pocket gun that only weighs 11.9 ounces. For the catagory it fits in, how can you beat that?

I have not gotten rid of my Glocks as primary guns and I do not consider the KelTec as a "primary gun" only because under stress, due to the trigger, I am not good with it past 7 yards...once again, that is under stress and against the clock. I can group within a few inches with it out to 15 yards or so when I have time. Most people never even take out there primary gun and try shooting it under stress against a clock, so they don't really know just how *bad* they are. Anyway, I use my P-11 as my pocket gun/backup gun/ready gun and my Glock as a primary.
I can do things with the Glock that I cannot so with the Kel Tec, like shoot fast and accurate under combat stress at "longer" ranges, but the KelTec does things that a Glock can't do, like clip to my jogging shorts or fit in a pocket. Each fills a role that the other cannot.


Another advatage of the KelTec is the true double action trigger. If you have a bad round, just pull the trigger again.

I am having my KelTec slide coated with Metacol 3 because it does rust just like my Sig. I would suggest trying out the Stainless P-11 for any new buyers.


Ps- Anyone know where I can get a trigger shoe for my P11?
I am told that that would help lighten the feel of the trigger. It would be cool if my KelTec could shoot even better than it does!
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Old December 13, 1999, 09:52 PM   #12
Red Bull
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Pbash - try cycling a couple hundred rounds through it. Even Glocks are pardoned when they jam in the first hundred rounds or so. $2000 1911's are even allowed to break in. Try running a few hundred rounds through it and it bet it will cycle much better.
If you don't want to go that route and want to ditch it, then let me know, I am always willing to buy a KelTec at a good price and I am certain that yours just needs to be broken in.
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Old December 13, 1999, 11:02 PM   #13
tatters
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Location: Indiana
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Red Bull-- Order the trigger shoe right from KelTec. I have the trigger shoe, belt clip, mag pinkie rests, Handall Jr. and a trigger stop on mine. It really DOES make a difference.

------------------
So many a'holes-- so few bullets!------
Ford Fairlane
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Old December 14, 1999, 08:39 AM   #14
lucky085
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Red Bull

"The P-11 is lighter than the Titanium Snubby revolvers at only 11.9 ounces"

I'm sure the P11 is a good gun, but the tech specs have it weighing 14 ounces unloaded, and 20 ounces with a full magazine, which is a bit heavier than the Taurus snubbies.
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Old December 16, 1999, 12:42 AM   #15
Red Bull
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Oops, you are right. I own both and got them confused. I have a full rubber grip on my Titanium snubby, and a belt clip, so it probably weighs around 14 ounces.

The little grip sleeve and belt clip on the Kel Tec probably add an ounce too, so they are probably within an ounce of weight difference unloaded.

Beyond that, I have wrestled shortly with the fact that my Kel Tec loaded weighs more than the Titnium snubby loaded, but considering that all the extra weight is just extra ammo, how can I complain?
If I wanted to, I could load the Kel Tec with only five rounds, and then it would weigh about the same as the five round snubby, but that seems kinda silly, no?

So, I have consigned myself to suffer with the weight of the extra ammo capacity
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