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Old August 13, 2005, 07:11 PM   #1
147 Grain
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Best 9mm Compact for CCW with Quality in Mind?

Subject says it all.

When recommending something, could you please keep the following questions in mind:

* What about reliability to shoot all 9mm factory ammo with no problems?

* Any quirks, negatives, or good / bad features to be aware of?

* How does your suggestion compare to a Glock, Kahr, H&K, Springfield's XD-9, Steyer M-9, S&W 99, or Ruger's 93 Compact in 9mm?

* Ease of maintenance?

* Recommended tips that are worthwhile on this pistol?

Thank-you in advance of your assistance!

Aim for the Thoracic Triangle Area between the armpits & throat.
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Old August 13, 2005, 08:41 PM   #2
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CZ-75 Compact. A friend who shot my CZs liked them so much she got a compact for carry. Everything should function like my full size(please correct me if I am wrong, I have yet to shoot it). As for comparison, cheaper than most all on the list, equal or better reliability and accuracy, and a heck of a lot better looking than a glock or XD. Dissasembly and cleaning is easier the more you do it. The only thing that some people run into(I haven't) is problems feeding hollow-points. This is almost always fixed by simply polishing the feed ramp, but again, I have never had a problem.

That being said, the thing I like most about my CZs are how naturaly they feel and point in my hand. Pick them all up, point them(in a safe direction), dry fire(if the dealer allows it) and pick the best for you.
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Old August 13, 2005, 08:48 PM   #3
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Kahr PM9. DAO, after 200 rounds break-in shoots everything I try with no problems, including Ranger and Georgia Arms +P+. One of the smallest 9mm's, made by a quality company. Can be bought new starting at about $500 plus shipping. Very easy to take apart, no tools needed.

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Old August 13, 2005, 08:48 PM   #4
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Sig P228

The Sig P228 is definitely one of the best 9mm handguns on the market. As far as size goes, it is comparable to a HK USPc, or Glock 19. Reliable feeding any type of ammunition, ergonomic, and can be concealed with a good holster and belt. I have been carrying one everyday for a while and would recommend it to anyone. You will never regret buying a Sig.
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Old August 13, 2005, 08:52 PM   #5
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I like and know the Sig's reputations, but is there any other feedback on the quality of H&K? Looking for a good CCW 9mm or 45 compact pistol.


P.S. CDNN is running a special on new H&K 9mm USP compacts (TT9P) with polymer frame for only $259 or $289 for the 45 ACP (TT45P). Should I pay more for the updated version in the P-2000 series?
Aim for the Thoracic Triangle Area between the armpits & throat.
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Old August 13, 2005, 09:02 PM   #6
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Sigs & H&ks

Alrighty, since I have done destruction tests on SIGs and H&KS here's the deal. H&K USPs have aluminium forward frame rails that wear out! The SIGs will shear the roll pin holding the breach face with high pressure +P+
The CZ is a budget work horse tho I prefer the G-19 for it's lighter weight.
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Old August 14, 2005, 05:43 AM   #7
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Glock 19. Light weight, reliable. 16 rounds in the gun, 15 in spare mag. 4" barrel. Accurate. Much less muzzleflip than Sigs because the barrel axis is much lower. No safties to get blocked with, yet totally safe. Light. Concealable. Carry min 24/7. Mags and spare parts cost almost nothing....
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Old August 14, 2005, 06:55 AM   #8
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I have had every gun you mentioned except the Kahr And Steyr, I still have them all except the SW99. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of these guns except the S99 which the dealer sent back to S&W and it still wasnt fixed, the gunshop took it back. The recoil spring was rubbing on the barrel and was leaving metal flakes in the gun, after a few hundred rounds the spring was 1/4 gone and still rubbing. The Kahr's have had some problems of late, you may want to do a forum search.

The most accurate was the CZ with the H&K next, both shoot close to an inch at 25 yards for 5 shots of a benchrest. All these guns should hold a 2 1/2 inch 25yd group. I had no malfunctions with any except the SW99 as mentioned. The H&K is rated for +p+ loads on their website it says with a life expectancy of over 20,000 rounds. I feel the CZ has the best natural pointing instinct, the XD is also a very good option. Money wise the CZ and XD are the best bargains, also check the warrenty, some guns are not lifetime. The workmanship on them is about equal except for the CZ which can be rough inside but it doesnt seem to hurt performance. My CZ compact was the only one you mentioned that had early feeding issues which went away after 200 or so rounds. I have heard of the CZ cracking frames with too many +P+ rounds though.

I personally carry the H&K as I like the option of DAO, DA/SA, and having an external safety. There was just another cop that got himself GLOCKED, meaning his gun went off while holstering and his leg received the business end. This is why I dont own my Glock anymore, too many things can happen when your adrenaline is running and you do not have 100% focus on the gun. The police have extensive training and still many have been glocked. I prefer an external safety or DAO. I feel that when you are in a situation and adrenaline is running you dont have the same focus as on the range, it is easy to apply more trigger pressure than you realize.

I also carry a Keltec P11 9mm, but the Keltecs are spotty for reliabilty. I had to give mine a buff job on the feedramp, now it is 100% reliable. I dont feel the steel inserts on the H&K are a problem, how many people shoot over 20,000 rounds, also they will repair it if anything happens. Sig has a great service dept and the P series are hard to beat. I also carry a P220 in the winter when dress permits. The sigs have a repuation for the finish not holding up and holster wear is evident early. I have not had rust issues, but I wipe my guns frequently.

I have owned close to 100 handguns in my 50+ years and still own enough. I only keep the ones that prove to be accurate and reliable. I own Sigs, H&K's, an XD, and a Ruger. I dont like the Ruger for carry as it is very bulky and the controls are too skinny, especially for gloves. I do use my Ruger for target and some hiking especially in bad weather.

Bottom line I endorse the H&K first but $$$$$, why +P+ for one, design and reliability for second and with the variations for action type built into one gun its hard to beat. Sig second, great track record, excellent support, good design and balance, and as the H&K reliable. XD and CZ tied for third these are my picks if CCW is the issue. I pick for recreational shooting the Ruger and XD, if money isnt an issue then refer to the CCW picks. I prefer to have a few shooters and keep the mileage off my CCW guns.
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Old August 14, 2005, 08:27 AM   #9
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glock 19

Try the GLOCK 19. It conceals well, shoots accurately, holds 15 in the mag, reliable and easy to field strip.
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Old August 14, 2005, 11:47 PM   #10
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Pick up a used S&W 6946, or 6906. I have my 6946 stoked with Corbon ammo and have had zero problems with it. Light, accurate and carries very well. Mike
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Old August 15, 2005, 12:05 AM   #11
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I have a few recommendations.

In the world of sub-compacts, three decent, affordable, reliable guns come to mind. Glock 26, Springfield XD-9 and Taurus PT-111 Mil Pro. I think the Glock tops the list of those three for reliability, ease of take-down and clean, and parts availablity. But...there are other options too...

Kel-Tec P11. Mostly reliable. Good price, good size. I understand that with a little attention to the feedramp and slide rails, the gun can be made quite reliable. Many people just send it right to Fuselier Plating for fluff and buff and plating and it comes back looking good and 100% reliable.

But...MY FIRST CHOICE would definately be a Kahr PM9.
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Old August 15, 2005, 10:39 AM   #12
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Kahr K9. Perfect CCW size with most attire. A little heavy, but excellent quality. The steel Kahrs have an excellent reputation, the polymers less so. I have a K40 and love it. If you want to carry a 9, you'll like the K9.
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Old August 15, 2005, 11:13 AM   #13
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When it comes to carry pieces I would personally stick with the top brands.

Including but not limited to
Colt (and other top end 1911)
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Old August 15, 2005, 12:36 PM   #14
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...but is there any other feedback on the quality of H&K?

A lot of good suggestions here.

I own an HK P2000 Ver 3 (SA/DA) in 9mm. I've put about 3000 rounds through it so far. I'm not particular about the ammo I use but cheaper is better when I'm at the range. I'm extremely pleased with the look and feel of this compact. It shoots well and is extremely reliable. Free translation: it is more capable than I am, and it has never jammed on me.

Tear down for cleaning is a snap and does not require any tools. I regularly use Gun Scrubber to clean the hard to get to places, and none of the polymer parts have objected yet.

My LEO friends at the range seem to shoot it extremely well. We swap handguns ocassionally. The corellary to that is that I've developed a healthy respect for the Glock as well.

Even though I'm an HK addict I won't emphasize my point by critiquing the others referenced here. I like them all.
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Old August 15, 2005, 03:21 PM   #15
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Ill just say DITTO to the whole thread......any of these guns will do you very well. CZ's Kahrs Sigs Glocks ........all are great guns.
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Old August 15, 2005, 06:55 PM   #16
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Star Model BM. Very reliable, durable, compact and can be bought for around $175.00 but are easily worth 3 to 5 times as much. Check out this link to a detailed review.
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Old August 16, 2005, 12:28 AM   #17
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I'm not a fan of the 9mm, so keep that in mind! But I have owned or do own a sig 228, glock 19 and a kel-tec p11.

The sig was accurate and reliable but I could not master the da/sa trigger to my statisfaction and gave up on it. That was back in the clinton years and I had too much money tied up in it and full capacity magazines to keep a pistol I didn't shoot well. So I sold it.

The kel tec is a neat little pistol to carry in a pocket or as a 2nd gun. Mine is 100% reliable. It is accurate enough for a fight, but not much fun to shoot and doesn't work too well in something like IDPA, for instance. If that matters.

The glock 19 would be my choice if I had to carry a 9mm. It is proven, accessories are abundant, and most people can shoot it well with minimal instruction. Now that magazines are back to normal prices you can carry it and use it as it was intended and designed.

There are a lot of good choices out there. Make sure whatever you choose fits your hand correctly. I know glocks are pretty mundane these days, but you would be well suited to consider one if it fits your hand.
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Old August 16, 2005, 12:40 AM   #18
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It doesn't seem that any ONE gun has managed to be "exactly" what I would want in a gun. I would have to combine about three different presently made handguns in order to get all the features I would want in one gun.

GLOCK is about perfect except for this idea (which people like forumites have stuck in my head) that there's a problem with "kabooms" due to the "unsupported chamber." I don't know if that's truly a problem or not. I have never seen damaged brass from my G27.

So if you took the "fully supported chamber" from any other gun that has one, and put it in the GLOCK line, I would say I'd take a GLOCK every time.

Is this stuff about USPs having aluminum slide rails true?! That would be insane! I have a USP40 that I got new in 1994. (Wow, is it that old already?!) Would my gun have aluminum inserts, or would they be steel?

And why are we talking as though it's a foregone conclusion that a 9mm is desired here? Why not a .40?

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Old August 16, 2005, 09:58 AM   #19
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One more note about the Glock 19, that i didnt see brought up.

It is 16 in the gun, and 17 in the spare mag. Seeing as the glock 17 magazine is less than an inch larger than the 15 round magazine, why not carry it as a spare?

The 15 round will conceal most easily, but after 16 rounds have been used and a mag change - concealment is likely not your priority anymore. If you run 16 rounds out there and need more, the mag sticking 2 cm out the bottom is the very least of your worries.

The other strong point is that the G17 mag can be used in a G17, G19, or G26... So everything i just said goes for the G26 as well.
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Old August 16, 2005, 10:49 AM   #20
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Kahr PM9.

Especially with the Black Diamond or Tungsten DLC finish.

Lightweight, small, slim, tough, accurate, corrosion resistant, and reliable.

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Old August 16, 2005, 10:03 PM   #21
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P.S. CDNN is running a special on new H&K 9mm USP compacts (TT9P) with polymer frame for only $259 or $289 for the 45 ACP (TT45P). Should I pay more for the updated version in the P-2000 series?
These are not H&K, they are CZ.

Now the Walther P99 AS Compacts they have on sale for $429 are a heck-of-a-deal. Bought one myself (I now have 3) and my buddy got one too. They are excellent 9mm Compact carry pistols.

Also, take a look at the Kahr PM9. Excellent, flat carry pistol.

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Old August 16, 2005, 11:29 PM   #22
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One more vote for the PM9. Small, flat, accurate, reliable. I bought one in June for summer carry and quickly became a big fan.
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Old August 17, 2005, 09:05 AM   #23
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I'm glad you clarified that. I about choked on a Cheese Puff thinking that someone REALLy thought they could get an HK for $250. Thats less than what CDNN paid for em I'm sure. They are CZ's. I haven't ever heard much about that series. Look interesting, might want to check them out.
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Old August 17, 2005, 09:22 AM   #24
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They are actually not CZs in the purest sense (not made by the same people who make the CZ 75, etc.). They're basically a Tanfoglio witness copy (polymer frame) made in the Czech Republic.

I had a post asking about these within the last week or two. Do a search. I saw that CDNN had them for $259, and I was inquiring to find out what they were.
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Old August 17, 2005, 07:10 PM   #25
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Para-Ordnance P10-9. If you can find one. 3" barrel.
The heck, if you find one and don't want it, please let me know.
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