The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 28, 2005, 01:09 PM   #1
Join Date: July 27, 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 53
.416 Rigby vs .416 Remington Magnum

What are the significant differences between these two chamberings? Thanks.
RGL01 is offline  
Old July 28, 2005, 03:30 PM   #2
Mike Irwin
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 39,221
Biggest differences?

The Remington round operates at significantly higher pressure.

The Remington round has a belted case.

Remington try to reinvent the wheel with their .416.

All they managed to do was create a square wheel.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old July 28, 2005, 04:00 PM   #3
Senior Member
Join Date: December 2, 2004
Posts: 189
The pressure issue can be important for those on African safari. Another issue though is that the Remington is far more common and cheaper than the Rigby. So if you're going to be out in nowheresville, your chances of getting the Remington are better.
arthurrh is offline  
Old July 28, 2005, 07:33 PM   #4
Join Date: July 27, 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 53
Thanks guys.
I'm generally a believer in opting for the lower pressure cartridge when all else is (fairly) equal.
RGL01 is offline  
Old July 28, 2005, 11:45 PM   #5
Mike Irwin
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 39,221

I'm assuming you mean the ammo.

I'd say that's true in the United States (but I'd be SHOCKED if you were to walk into a gunshop in nowhereville, USA, and find a box of .416 anything).

In Africa, though, I'd bet you'd be a lot more likely to find .416 Rigby ammo. The .416 has been a staple in Africa almost since its introduction in 1907.

Like many of Remington's cartridge introductions in the 20th century, the .416 Remington has been largely a flop.

The TRUE kicker, though? Even though the .416 Rigby operates at significantly lower pressure, it churns out a lot more energy in most handloads.

The .416 Weatherby, on the other hand, tromps them both handily.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old July 29, 2005, 01:00 PM   #6
Senior Member
Join Date: December 2, 2004
Posts: 189
From what I've read from guys who hunt the world, .416 Remington is easier to buy no matter where you are. I can't say with first-hand experience.
arthurrh is offline  
Old July 29, 2005, 02:03 PM   #7
Senior Member
Join Date: July 25, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 520
I haven't fired either one of these, so all I know is "what I read in the papers." I do know that Ed Matunas preferred the .416 Rigby slightly because it developed lower chamber pressures; hence, he figured, less likely to jam when some beastie was charging one at full-steam. He did also note that the .416 Remington is more available and somewhat less expensive.

Like I said, based SOLELY on reading....
jrklaus is offline  
Old July 30, 2005, 02:01 PM   #8
Senior Member
Join Date: July 8, 2001
Location: North Central Florida & Miami
Posts: 3,060
What I see from looking at sources online and in print, is that the Rigby cartridge is larger, and burns more powder. The Remington cartridge uses less powder, at higher pressure to achieve the same end.
I am not sure which is better. I don't think an Elk could tell the difference though.
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan
Mannlicher is offline  
Old August 1, 2005, 10:51 AM   #9
Mike Irwin
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 39,221
I don't think I'd use a .416 on elk. Just a slight bit of... overkill.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old August 1, 2005, 01:33 PM   #10
Senior Member
Join Date: May 19, 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,334
1. The 416 Rigby requires a pretty mammoth rifle to hold many in the magazine. I believe it is the basis for the 460 Weatherby and 378 with the added belt.

2. I thought the reason the old British cartridges had such large volume is because they used Cordite which went up in pressure as the ambient temperature rose. The modern double based powders are more stable.
o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC

o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain

o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey

o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC
BigG is offline  
Old August 1, 2005, 03:04 PM   #11
Senior Member
Join Date: May 27, 2004
Posts: 2,745
I don't think I'd use a .416 on elk. Just a slight bit of... overkill.
+1 - I am not a safari hunter, but at least from what I have read, the .416 will work on anything on earth - polar bear, brown bear, lion, tiger, cape buffalo, rhino, elephant.
“Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think.”
Niels Bohr
CarbineCaleb is offline  
Old August 2, 2005, 07:07 PM   #12
Join Date: January 26, 2005
Location: Mineola, New York
Posts: 71
Anything on earth? do you really need to go above .400 to kill anything on earth? I would think the 375 H&H mag. would be sufficiant for just about anything on earth

TerminalVelocity16 is offline  
Old August 4, 2005, 10:19 PM   #13
Mike Irwin
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 39,221
Ask some of the professional hunters (or read about their exploits) and you'll soon see that while you can kill just about anything on earth with just about any caliber, sometimes being able to do so very fast with very large bullets is the optimal way to go.

If the best mouse trap truly were rounds lik the .375 and .404 Jeffery, then cartridge development for dangerous game would have stopped dead in its tracks as all of the hunters switched over.

That's not what happened, though.

The really big calibers (.500 and up) still have significant followings in Africa as true stopping rifles.

In British parlance, the .416 isn't even a large bore rifle. It's a medium bore.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old March 18, 2007, 03:27 PM   #14
Junior Member
Join Date: March 18, 2007
Posts: 2
I prefer the .416 Rigby

Both cartridges develop comparable muzzle velocity as set out in the Hornady Reloading Manual, 9th ed. (Max 2400 Rigby vs Max 2450 Remington). Those 50 fps don't mean much in terms of downrange energy. There is a SLIGHT variation in point of impact, but, neither cartridge is designed for 300 yard shots in the first place so that is not much of an issue. Neither wins the speed debate

The Rigby cartridge is slightly larger 3.75" Max. COL versus 3.60" Max COL (about 1/16 inch difference), but is definitaly fatter .590" versus .532" in the Remington. Remington wins the size debate.

The chamber pressure in the Rigby is lower than the Remington, however I am not aware of any SAAMI pressure limitation on the Rigby. 44,000 has been suggested as the pressure limit, versus the SAAMI limit of 65,000 psi for the Remington. Lower pressures mean a lower likelihood of a jam and lower likelyhood of dangerous overpressure or jamming in a very hot climate. I.E. Africa. Rigby wins here.

Accessability of ammunition. Probably a draw, If you reload, it is a moot point. How many of you have ever run out of ammo on a big game hunt?

The biggest issue for me is the safety issue involving less likelihood of jamming. So I prefer the Rigby. I have shot one and it shoots well with a manageable recoil.

Happy Hunting

"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?" George W. Bush, January 11, 2000.
rblum100 is offline  
Old March 18, 2007, 03:57 PM   #15
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 12,901
Don't know how true this is, but I read several years ago that Remington opted to develop the 416 Rem because 416 Rigby ammo was generally not available (probably meant in the USA). However Ruger opted to chamber a rifle for the 416 Rigby and create demand for the ammo, prompting Hornady to offer it.

If true, some of our corporate giants do not understand supply and demand.
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is online now  
Old March 20, 2007, 10:57 PM   #16
Senior Member
Join Date: March 10, 2007
Location: Ozarks
Posts: 215
The 416 Remington was very popular in Africa in the 1990s, as it was a compromise between the 375 H&H and the 458 Winchester magnum. For reasons not clear to me, the 416 seems to have faded some and the 416 Rigby with has been around for years became loaded again and some rifle companies came to choose it. Nevertheless, it did not achieve great popularity. Today, the 375 is still the most common African caliber along with an assortment of big bores, such as the 458 Lott and the propriety A-Square and of course the big Weatherbys. There is a host of other big bores and many are used. As to availability, the 458 Win and 375 H&H are the most common.

Most plains game shooters still prefer less powerful cartridges, such as the 30-06 and other similar size numbers. I have not hunted the Dark Continent in some years so I would imagine what is used and available has changed. I doubt the main stays have not changed much.
Born pre-war and proud of it!

No loud hippity hop rock music please!
Charshooter is offline  
Old December 28, 2008, 03:40 PM   #17
Boston T. Party
Join Date: December 28, 2008
Posts: 15
Both fire a 400gr at 2400fps.

The Rigby is a fine caliber, and low-pressure, but you need a
behemoth action.

The .416 Rem does not have to be compressed loaded if you
use a 400gr A-Frame. Very common in Africa, and well-regarded.
I used one in 2005 Tanzania with splendid results.

More important is your familiarity and field accuracy.


My new book Safari Dreams available from:
Boston T. Party is offline  
Old December 28, 2008, 06:08 PM   #18
Senior Member
Join Date: January 9, 2008
Posts: 313
and now i believe Ruger & Hornady have come out with one. maybe it will be better than the others, maybe not.
pbrktrt is offline  
Old December 28, 2008, 07:50 PM   #19
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 10,842
.416 Rigby Vs .416 Remington Magnum


What Are The Significant Differences Between These Two Chamberings?

Kraig Stuart
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old December 29, 2008, 12:40 AM   #20
Senior Member
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 5,314
I have fired a 416 rem some,and the recoil felt about the same a a 31/2 Ten gauge mag load in a light break action single shot shotgun.I might like it if I really needed it,but it was a bit much for me.

I have,however,fired someone's home made scaled up rem 700 in 50 BMG and wanted more!!

I think there is something to pressure level and the characteristic of recoil.

I can tolerate being pushed,but being punched is more painful.I don't know for sure,but I suspect in equal rifles ,even with similar ballistics and the physics of how mant ft lbs come through the butt plate,the acceleration and felt recoil of the Rem might be more.

The CZ .416 actions are in Brownells,I think the Montana Rifleman makes a .416 size M-70 clone.

Looking to see if a 338 ultramag was catalogued in a Sendero (prairie dogs)
I could not find any Rems over .300 Ultramag in any rifle outside their custom shop.Then the price starts at about $3000

As the Rem extractor is not favored for dangerous game,I suspect the Rigby will be easier to find ammo for,long term.

And,while I have never held or fired a .404 Jeffreys,for some reason,I think if I chose an exotic far away places rifle....
HiBC is offline  
Old January 1, 2009, 08:30 PM   #21
Junior Member
Join Date: January 1, 2009
Posts: 9
I have owned rifles in both 416 Rigby and 416 Remington. I prefer the Remington for the following reasons.
1) Less costly ammo and brass
2) equivilent performance with less recoil
3) easier to add a cartridge to the magazine w/o making such a deep drop box

Addessing the "VERY OLD" issues with pressures in hot climates.
1) I live in north Texas; It is no hotter in Africa in the summer than August in Texas; 100+ degrees. I have shot 100's of rounds through my 416 Remington over the past 10 years in this environment. No issues with modern powders; PERIOD!! People just need to stop regurgitating this 30 year old information with no personal experience.
2) The 416 Rem. is factory loaded at 45,000 CUP; The "African Darling" 375 H&H is factory loaded at 44,000 CUP. Do you ever hear of people complaining about the 375 H&H and extraction issues??? NO!! Get over it!
a) One of the most common powders to gain maximum potential out of the 375H&H is W760; Guess what: A ball powder! The same type of propellant accussed of causing pressure build ups in high temp environs.
3) Most factory loadings of modern cartridges are loaded at about 45,000 CUP. and you hear little or nothing of 300 mags and 338 mags in Africa with extraction issues.
This topic needs to be put to rest. The 416 Rigby is a fine cartridge but if you want to move a 400 gr forty caliber bullet at 2400-2450 fps; the Remington version is just fine.
If you want to move one faster the Rigby design is certainly capable.

I like the old English cartridges as well and own a 404 jeffery, 470 nitro's and 500 nitro's and hope to add a 450/ 400 in the near future. They are all great old cartridges with allot of history. I especially like the new 404 Jeffery Norma loading with a 450 gr bullet at 2150 fps.

Winchester and Hornady now offer 458 Win Mag factory loads at 2250 fps with 500 gr bullets. These new cartridge offerings in this caliber will do any thing the old english guns will with with far less recoil.

If you are interested in a very reliable 416 Rem. load using a 400 gr Swift or 400 Nosler partition; try 79 gr of RL -15. In the Nosler manual is is listed at 2 gr. off maximum and 2453 FPS. I think Swift lists 79 gr of RL-15 as a max load at 2430 FPS. If have talked person to person with a Swift representative at the Safari show and asked why they are so conservative with their load data and they say it is liability reasons.
This is a load I have used for years and it is very safe and have absolutely no issues in 100+ temps. Custom Win. Model 70.

Most importantly; Most hunting in Africa is done in the winter; Just an FYI; heat is seldom an issue.
Drama; Drama; Drama

Last edited by eezridr; January 2, 2009 at 11:48 AM.
eezridr is offline  
Old January 1, 2009, 08:37 PM   #22
Junior Member
Join Date: January 1, 2009
Posts: 9
If you go to Africa; Practice shooting with the sticks; It will pay off regardless of what you shoot.

Last edited by eezridr; January 2, 2009 at 11:29 AM.
eezridr is offline  
Old January 4, 2009, 03:12 PM   #23
Senior Member
Join Date: May 29, 2008
Location: now living in alabama
Posts: 2,433
Ah, here we are again 308 vs 30-06 except a different caliber. Its your choice. Balistics are close to eachother. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. If you want to get the best performance, upgrade to 416WBY, balistics pale in comparison.
No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.
sc928porsche is offline  
Old January 6, 2009, 12:05 AM   #24
Senior Member
Join Date: July 8, 2008
Location: The land of green Jello and vanilla icecream
Posts: 1,476
As stated above, the only real difference is ammo price/availability. Both cartridges are fairly equal in terms of performance, and should do just fine for anything you hunt on the dark continent. My father has a .416 Rigby ( sold his 458 to buy it) and shooting it is tolerable, off hand. Shooting it off a bench is about the worst torture I have experienced, you really need to be able to roll with the recoil with that cartridge. Factory ammo does pretty well, but you can really crank things up with handloads. Having put many rounds thru both his .416 Rigby and .458 Win, I think for my big bore, I will stick with the good old .375 H&H. (Although thoughts of a .404 Jeffrey cross my mind a bit, just for something different) The .375 has very tolerable recoil, cheaper to shoot, you don't have to pack around a 12 lb rifle, and it still gets the job done fine, just ask Finn Aagard, John Hunter, Peter Capstick, etc.
The answer to 1984 is 1776
Crankylove is offline  
Old December 8, 2010, 03:17 PM   #25
Join Date: September 3, 2008
Posts: 41
The old sticky extraction fable

For years I've been hearing the same tired old crap: "Don't use the .416 Remington Magnum on a dangerous game safari because it will lock up on you & get you killed."

Do the rules of reloading common sense suddenly vanish when discussing the .416 Remington Magnum?

You develop & test your loads for the environment you intend to deploy the firearm in WITH ANY CALIBER.

A load developed for deployment on an African Safari with 100 degree + average temperatures & a load developed for a backup gun to be deployed in Churchill Falls, Canada as a Polar Bear backup gun in the winter using exactly the same components would probably call for different powder charges as a given maximum powder charge developed for the cold weather environment would likely generate excess pressure in the hot environment & thus result in difficult extraction.

Without thorough in the field development & testing for each specific situation & firearm/caliber selection the above paragraph is nothing but guesstimations & generalizations but the principles are well established as factual.

In a nutshell a load has to be developed & thoroughly tested for the environment it is to be used in.

I own 2 x .416 Remington Magnum rifles & have used them just about everywhere & have never had a problem because I exercise due diligence as regards environment specific load development & testing with all the firearms and calibers I own.

If this nonsense was spread intentionally to "kill" a perfectly good caliber it did a heck of a job because it's hard getting rifles, ammo & reloading components for the .416 Remington Magnum. Finding new brass for the .416 Remington Magnum is next to impossible.

Way to go rumor mongers.
pricedo is offline  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:33 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2017 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent:
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10150 seconds with 7 queries