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Old October 13, 1998, 09:38 AM   #1
Rich Lucibella
Join Date: October 6, 1998
Location: South Florida
Posts: 10,205
I'd like to hear what most people use for scopes on tactical carbines. I'm familiar with the Colt system on AR's, Aimpont and a couple of others. Do most of you stay in the 2.5X range or look for higher power and/or variable power scopes.
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Old October 13, 1998, 10:43 PM   #2
Rob Pincus
Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Hotels
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I used a 4X scope for a while on an AR, but for real tactical considerations, my current favorite is the Bushnell Holosite. It is more durable than I thought it would be. Though, one swift whack and the view port is probably going to snap off.
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Old October 14, 1998, 04:41 PM   #3
Join Date: October 11, 1998
Posts: 91

Of the 4 AR-15 Carbines I have only one has anything except Trijicon Night Sites (iron sights), I have one with a Trijicon ACOG Reflex. I do not set any of these carbines up for long range work, because the .223 at ranges exceeding 250 yards is a not my preference.

At 300 yards the Reflex Carbine can make hits on a standard pepper popper 8 for 10 from prone, (16 inch Bushmaster flat top).

My preference on these tools is to set them up to be as rugged, drop-proof as possible. Glass gives me some concern. Anything with a battery is out of consideration. I have a Swan sleeve with pop-up reserve iron sights on the flattop with the Reflex. If it ever dosen't work I'll just unscrew it and use the iron sights.

What are your thoughts?

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Old October 14, 1998, 09:16 PM   #4
Join Date: October 6, 1998
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Bushmaster XM15E2 Shortys (16")wear Trijicon ACOG-1 in 4x.

H&K SL-7 is topped with a Burris compact 3-9, which stays pretty much on 3x.

Valmet M62S is occasionally topped with an old Weaver Wideview in 2-1/2X, but the 76FS is iron only.

Colt 9mm Carbines are iron.

Colt HBAR uses Colt 4x w/ BDC. Smith Ent. M-14NM uses an old Leatherwood ART-II, 3-9x, with the cam rangefinder/BDC. H&K 91 is a Kahles zf69, 6x BDC.

Some of these aren't very practical as tactical carbines although the respective mfgs would argue the marketing point of their short-barreled versions of like or similar design.

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Old October 17, 1998, 11:57 AM   #5
Join Date: October 14, 1998
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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I like a nonmagnifying red dot scope mounted in line with the iron sights on the CAR15/M4 type carbines. This set up is great for 0-300 yards, though past 200 with the .223 is pushing it. I tend not to favor the flip up SWAN type rear sights -- if your dot goes out, you need your sights there NOW, not after you flip the flimsy thing up. The Gunsite/Mark Brown mount for the CAR-15 A2/A3 carbines has much promise. This mount, which retains the A2/A3 rear iron sight assembly, includes a Weaver rail for an in-line Aimpoint in the area that previously consisted of the carrying handle. It's more compact and robust than most of the other systems I've seen. Add some Trijicons (at least a front sight) and a white light system, and you're ready for combat at contact distance out to long range without any fiddling with knobs or loss of sight acquisition speed at any range.
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Old November 19, 1998, 08:15 PM   #6
Rich Lucibella
Join Date: October 6, 1998
Location: South Florida
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Well, I got a chance to do some work with the Mark Brown/Gunsite/Aimpoint setup and the flattop/reflex setup, today. Got a quick tutorial from our own Rifle Forum Moderator, Mykl.

Many have heard me say that I don't consider myself a very competent rifle shot. That's 'cuz I'm not. However, by the end of an hour, Mykl had me *consistently* hitting short steel poppers at 300 yards from the prone, with *both* rifles! Am I beaming?

Back to the guns...I found the reflex quicker in acquisition and a bit easier, as it just has to be on the target...not lined up with the front sight. OTOH, absent flip up iron sights, when the Reflex goes down, you might as well hip fire. The Aimpoint is dependent on batteries, but at least has redundnt iron sights, as Hilton has pointed out.

I am told by some that the Reflex is rather fragile compared to the Aimpoint. Suggestions in helping me decide which way to go with a CAR-15 are greatly appreciated.


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Old November 19, 1998, 10:28 PM   #7
Jeff White
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Join Date: October 29, 1998
Location: Kinmundy, IL, USA
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I'd recommend the Trijicon ACOG Reflex. It is easily field zeroed by adjusting the dot to the top of the front sight post. If you use backup iron sights (I have a SWAN Sleeve on my flattop), you can flip them up and look right through the reflex without removing it.

Tritium illumination means no batteries. (I have a Trijicon 4x32 ACOG that I bought in '89 and the reticle is still brightly it) A "killflash" lens cover is available for it and it's built like a tank (same aluminum as the receiver on your AR). It's been adopted and type classified for the M4A1 carbines issued to the Special Operations Forces although I have no idea how many have actually been procured. I think if someone had a flattop carbine, a 4x32 ACOG and a Trijicon Reflex, he would have all of the sighting capability he needed for anything the rifle was capable of. Fast accurate shooting at man sized targets out to 300 meters or so with the reflex and precision shooting to 600 meters or so with the 4x32 ACOG. Add backup iron sights (SWAN Sleeve, GG&G or Knights Armament) and you're ready for anything. The downside is total cost for all of those sights would be about $1000.00.
If you can't afford "the system" decide how the carbine fits into your personal battery and buy the appropriate sight.
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Old November 20, 1998, 12:04 AM   #8
4V50 Gary
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 19,343

OK, so I'm cheap and bought the cheap rubber armored 3x9 Tasco and with the Colt scope base.

Personally I think 3x9 is too much magnification and I'd rather have a lower power scope with wider field of view. But, like I said, I was being cheap and now I'm too lazy to change for another system. I did use it during the running deer match and even won a couple of times.

The other systems like Trijicon ACOG, Bushnell Holosite and Aimpoint Comp M would be my choice if I wanted to spend the $.

Concerning my Smith Enterprise M14, I scoped mine with an old ART II 3x9 which I bought from Uncle Bill's CMP. Now, if I can get a spare Garand to go with my M84 I bought...

Mykl - wise choice in choosing the Smith Ent. National Match. On a lot of Springfield, Inc. guns, the web of the receiver (receiver firing pin stop) isn't made to mil-spec and it could result in the tail of the firing pin breaking. Unless the firing pin is inspected regularly and replaced when signs of wear appear, a user could be inviting slam fires. I've written the Chandler Bros. (Death from Afar Series and Tactical Shooter magazine) and they concur with me on this possibility. Springfield, Inc.'s Tom Reese knows of this problem but it is unknown whether they have resolved it with current production guns.

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Old November 20, 1998, 05:08 PM   #9
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16" Bushmaster- Tasco PDP5 red dot
20" Colt - 3-9 Bushnell
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