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Old June 4, 2005, 06:03 PM   #1
wayneniamat
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Warning! Slide breakage P22

This is a reprint of my post on rimfirecentral.com.
-------------------------------
I purchased an absolutely mint condition pre-owned Walther P22 Target several months ago.

The gun had zero wear and tear, and even the seller noted the pistol is near impossible to tell from brand new. I would say it had never been fired before.

When I first got it I tried one 50 round box of the stingers but the gun didn't feed well on 'hot' loads so I've been shooting Winchester Dynapoint through the gun mostly and it has about 6000 rounds through it.

Each visit to the range I would go through a 500 round box. Thats only 12 visits to the club in about 8 months.

The last range session the slide locked back after a shot and even after ejecting the mag and depressing the slide lock, it wouldn't go forward. I hit the slide from the rear and it shut. Well, I racked the slide several times thinking maybe the rails got fouled up even though its never happened before. There was too much resistance right before full slide retraction. It didn't feel right. I found when I pulled the slide back firmly, with no mag, the slide would stay back. I racked the slide several times again, with more vigor this time. It still stayed open when I pulled it back slowly.

I gotta say, 'thank God' I bothered to look at the front of the slide at all. If I had chambered another round, to test fire it, that slide could've broke free and hit my face or the candidate-member standing behind me. As far as I can tell, the front of the slide, that wraps around the muzzle of the barrel, is all that prevents the slide from sailing right back off its rails. Take a look at the pics...the slide is ready to tear free from this anchor point.

Let me stress...IT'S HARD TO shift from "im having so much fun shooting this fantastic little pistol" to "let me see if the slide is seconds away from breaking loose of the frame". I mean, why not just push the slide forward and fire the gun again? "Maybe with the actual recoil the slide will free itself up and stop sticking."

Ironically, last week I made a video while I field stripped the pistol after what I believe is the 6000round mark and in my narration I praise the function of the gun. The pistols concept is great and I was in love with the gun.

The 6000 round field strip video is online and so are pics of the broken slide. I'm gonna rush to post the email of the seller describing the gun as flawless to remove any doubt the pistol has fired more than my claim of 6000 rounds. I also have every single receipt from Walmart where I buy basic ammunition and not expensive hot loads.

I asked Walther for help but I realise it doesn't make a difference whether they help me replace this slide or not. I'm compelled to make this incident public.

I worry for you people that have your wives and children shooting this pistol cause I fear they may not grasp the gravity of a symptom like this 'sticky' slide.

View pics of slide here
http://home.cogeco.ca/~wayne_storage...KED_SLIDE.html
or here
http://home.cogeco.ca/~wayne_storage...KED_SLIDE.html

Alternate server for pics

Please post any Walther forums you know of here so i can get this message out. Everyone reading this also has my permission to post the above link anywhere a Walther P22 owner might find it. I am more than willing to answer any questions. Leave them here as replies so the community can follow along.

Note: I'd say this fella, Handy, is a darn prophet! http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ht=WALTHER+P22

Last edited by wayneniamat; June 5, 2005 at 11:59 AM.
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Old June 4, 2005, 06:21 PM   #2
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Wayne, the link to your site is bad .
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Old June 4, 2005, 06:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
If Walther has even the slightest notion a slide on ONE of their models is prone to breaking I say EVERY product they make is suspect.
OK....

Is that universal to all firearms companies or just Walther...if so...that takes care of all gun companies

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Old June 5, 2005, 12:59 PM   #4
wayneniamat
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Thanks

Hi.

Some consumers pointed out I might have been too hasty in condemning Walther. Yes. I accept now that I got what I paid for. Only I am to blame.

The report should just state the facts: the slide broke after 6000 rounds with basic ammunition so I amended the post.

Others have asked what Walther has offered in terms of assistance. The pistol broke on the evening of Thursday June 2nd 2005. I wrote Walther customer service an email on Friday June 3rd and it's only Sunday as I write this update so hardly any time has elapsed. I'd like to point out again though, I have no legitimate claim to warranty repair.
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Old June 5, 2005, 01:21 PM   #5
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The P22 is truly a lousy gun.I cant believe they sell to anyone who knows anything about guns.I saw a new one last week and they wanted $349.00 for it! :barf:
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Old June 5, 2005, 02:23 PM   #6
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I was looking at a P22 at a gunshow recently, and the gentleman that was selling it informed me that I wanted an automatic, I should look at the Ruger MkII's he had(which were $75 cheaper..). I asked why not this one, and he told me the slide was pot metal and not very strong. Also, he mentioned for the P22, all you get is the Walther name and something that looks similiar to the very nice p99..
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Old June 5, 2005, 03:23 PM   #7
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All things made by man can fail...OR what WildAlaska said (my way is prettier!)

That being said....Me and my bro Jason have put prolly 6-8 (3 of us put 800 to 1000 rds through it the first day he got it!) thousand rounds through his P22 AND used it as a holster pattern around 25-30 times...Still works like a charm

wayneniamat....Give Walther the chance to take a look at it, and see if they will cut ya a deal on a new slide...

jonathan...Ruger .22's and there wheelies are the only guns they make that I will even look at
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Old June 6, 2005, 12:42 AM   #8
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Sure, the P22 is not a 50lb hunk of metal like the MKII or Buckmark, but you knew that when you bought it. You bought a good looking and fun gun, but a tank. Those of you who expect your P22's to hold up like your Ruger's are not thinking realistically. I for one have had 2 P22's that both have more than 7k rounds through them and not a single problem, but thats just me.

Recently, I thought I had a problem and contacted S&W customer service. They sent me a shipping label and told me to send it in for them to fix. I realized that I was wrong about what I thought the problem was and there was actually no problem at all, but it was good to know that they were more than willing to fix my gun for me.

I would suggest that you call S&W and tell them that your problem (I wouldn't offer the info that you are not the original owner.... unless the ask), and see what they can do for you. I am will to bet that they will fix it for you for free and give you a new slide. Then you can sell your POS and buy a real gun .
But beware, you won't find another .22lr that is as much fun to shoot as the P22.
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Old June 6, 2005, 09:41 AM   #9
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Smith responds

Check the page, I've posted S&W's email response. They want me to send them the gun.

This might be the end of the line for my American readers but Canadians should keep posted cause the fun has only just begun.

It's already started with the dealer I got the gun from in Edmonton, Alberta. I posted their 'abrupt' reply.

If anyone from Canada has experience in matters like this(shipping firearms between US/CANADA) please contact me.
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Old June 6, 2005, 11:30 AM   #10
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I was very tempted to buy one of these, until I saw that the slide was made of aluminum.
I think that it would have been a better gun had they just installed an iron or even mild steel slide rather than aluminum. The $15 they saved by using an aluminum slide won't make up with the disatisfied customers who are pissed when their pistol breaks.
Non enthusiasts who dont follow magazines or the internet will have a cow when they buy used ones which break in a few years.
Remember the whole .380 nightmare S&W made for itself a few years back with a non ferrous alloy slide?
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Old June 6, 2005, 11:38 AM   #11
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Progress

The dealer I purchased the gun from on consignment P&D Enterprises in Edmonton, Alberta, made zero effort to help me resolve this issue. As if they didn't make any money when they sold me the gun.

I've made contact with the Walther's distributor in the Toronto area and they've asked me to send them the gun.

Thanks for the advice everyone. Your community helped me through the ordeal.

I've seen references to some people carrying the P22 as a weapon. I'm no expert but I doubt that was Walther's intention.
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Old June 6, 2005, 11:52 AM   #12
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Jack, I had posted the issue on rimfirecentral and the material and manufacturing was touched on in further detail. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...ad.php?t=96595

The gun is so much fun to shoot, half the price and essentially the same operation of a combat caliber gun and cute as hell. The mistake might be to forget its for plinking only and to believe everything with the Walther logo on it is sanctioned by Herr Majesty's Secret Service.
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Old June 6, 2005, 04:42 PM   #13
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It isn't aluminum - it's cast Zinc. Like Hotwheels cars.


All sorts of guns get slide cracks. We'll see if Walther has a bunch of them or not. .22 does not beat stuff up like the .380s in those Sigmas.
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Old June 6, 2005, 05:35 PM   #14
wayneniamat
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P22 is NOT a combat pistol!

"The 2003 Walther catalog says "...P22...it's at home hunting, backpacking or target shooting." The catalog refers to the larger counterparts as "defensive" and "combat ready". That catalog is still prominent on waltheramerica.com.

That they're leading the buyer to come to the conclusion I did seems too obvious to dispute. The pistol is for fun NOT defense of life."

Just thought I'd point the obvious out for those that only look at pictures and available accessories to decide on a defensive pistol.

And at that I'd like to bow outta here before Walther retracts their offer.
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Old June 7, 2005, 12:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
The pistol is for fun NOT defense of life
Who ever said this would be a good gun for defense of life? It is a fun little plastic .22, nothing more. If you ever come across a .22 that looks as good and is as fun to shoot as the P22 and only costs $229, you let me know and I will be more than willing to buy one. The only thing that even comes close is the Bersa Thunder .22 and they are around $235 and dang near impossible to find.

I have a SW99 as well and my buddy has the P99 and they are both excellent weapons and are made well. The P22 is a replica of the P99 that actually fires real bullets.... think of it as a novelty gun that is a blast to shoot, not something to pass on to the grandkids. If the $229 price tag for a plastic and zinc pistol bothers you that much, get the MKII and I'm sure you will be much happier.

It's kind of like the Desert Eagles. They are the only (to my knowledge) autoloading pistols chambered in .50ae, .44mag, and .357mag and they are very fun to shoot. HOWEVER, both times that I have shot one, it jammed consistently. For $800-$1200 you would think that it would be a flawlessly functioning weapon, but it was not meant for self-defense, so reliability was not the main priority, it is more of a novelty gun and some use it for hunting (for which the occasional jam does not mean life or death for the user). People know that they have their issues occasionally and people still buy them.

I have owned 2 Ruger's (a MKI and a MKII) and have traded back to my P22 both times. And now I wouldn't trade my P22 for a Ruger anyday... even if the slide cracks, I will get it fixed and keep going as I am sure that most P22 owners would.
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Old June 7, 2005, 01:44 AM   #16
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Senior Member? C'mon!

johndavid400,

You asked "Who ever said this would be a good gun for defense of life?"

Buddy, I'm not writing this stuff for you. You know it ALL. I'm writing for people who can still question.

It took me 5 frggn minutes to thresh out these people considering the P22 as a self defense gun, some for their WIVES. I bet theres dozens more.

Here's a few posts on YOUR bloody forum talking about using the p22 for self defense. Go post on their threads.

Now go on! Go somewhere you might do some good. Help THOSE people! ...trying to stir it up in here... some people got nothing better to do.

[in my best texas drawl] I'm performing a 'gawd-dam' public service here and some people wanna give me grief.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...&highlight=p22
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ht=p22+defense
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ht=p22+defense
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ht=p22+defense
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Old June 7, 2005, 01:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
I gotta say, 'thank God' I bothered to look at the front of the slide at all. If I had chambered another round, to test fire it, that slide could've broke free and hit my face or the candidate-member standing behind me.
I think you are overestimating the power of the .22 lr caliber and potential risk to you and the person behind you. Unless you shoot with the rear of your gun very close to your face, your face won't be hit by the slide. As for the slide breaking free to hit your face, it may break free, but the recoil spring is going to push the slide away from your face (assuming it is behind the gun).

Quote:
The gun is so much fun to shoot, half the price and essentially the same operation of a combat caliber gun and cute as hell.
This isn't unique to Walther in regard to having a similar operation as combat caliber handguns. Caliber doesn't determine operation in semi-auto pistols and most work on all the same basic manners.
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Old June 7, 2005, 03:19 AM   #18
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Double Naught Spy

This scientist says "...you are overestimating the...potential risk to you...".

I'm sorry, you forgot to introduce yourself. Start with what qualifies YOU to predict what could happen when a Walther P22 breaks 18inches from my face!

...I thought so.

Moderator. Time to close this thread. The gun nuts are showing up.
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Old June 7, 2005, 07:37 AM   #19
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That sucks about the slide cracking. But, to echo what others have said already, stuff like this can happen to the best of them. One of my worst gun experiences was with a brand new Ruger Mark II years back. The thing was a jam-o-matic with any ammo I tried. The disassembly lever in the grip would pop out when firing as well. Sent it in to Ruger and they did some work on it. Took it back out and the damn thing detonated a round outside of the chamber! The gun jammed all up with the brass shrapnel. Sent it in again and they replaced the whole receiver. By this time, I was too shaken to trust it and sold it off. Maybe I got the one made on a Friday afternoon right before the factory closes for the weekend. Stuff happens. Ruger has a good reputation overall, but in this case they let a lemon out. I was mad for a while, but it's nothing that would make me want to rally up a crowd with torches and pitchforks to storm the castle. I got over it and I'd buy from them again. Push on the manufacturer to make things right. If they care about their customers and their reputation, they'll take care of you.
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Old June 7, 2005, 08:46 AM   #20
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PD did not manufacture the gun. They sold it to you on consignment. Which means they sold it for somebody else, right?
The problem lies with the manufacturer who decided to scrimp and save $15 bucks by using a ZINC slide instead of even pig iron or mild steel.
Some people will use a small .22 or other mousguns for two reasons. Number one, a hit with a .22 will be more effective than a miss with a .45 and honestly, a gun you carry all the time everywhere is better for self defense than one you leave at home or in the car.
All these guys supposedly packing wide slide HUSPS and Glunks, I cant help but wonder why I never see 'em printing when I am hanging out at Wally World....

>>The dealer I purchased the gun from on consignment P&D Enterprises in Edmonton, Alberta, made zero effort to help me resolve this issue.<<<
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Old June 7, 2005, 09:39 AM   #21
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Wayne, chill out buddy.... I was agreeing with you that the gun is not meant for self-defense, as well as reiterating to the readers that might be reading your thread, that they should not get a P22 as their self-defense weapon. This forum does not tolerate personal attacks on public threads... if you have something mean to say, say it in a PM if at all.

However, You can't go around telling everyone that the P22 is a terrible gun that should be avoided at all costs just because you got a lemon. I am terribly sorry that you could have been hurt, and I am glad that nothing bad happened... but I can find you at least 10 different incidents (with pictures) where a Glock or HK blew up in someones face while shooting. Luckily, none of them were hurt, but point being, it DOES happen to the best of them.

And call me a bad person if you like, but if you want to get that gun of yours fixed, you should not be so flamboyant with your details, especially in your emails to S&W. In fact, it would be better if you just call them. Tell S&W that your slide cracked. Tell them that you want to send it in. If they ask you how many rounds of what brand were fired through it, tell them. But if you want them to fix your gun for free, you would be better off not offering the info that the gun is used and you bought it on consignment and all that jazz. It is likely their fault that the slide cracked and they should fix it, so let them.
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Old June 7, 2005, 10:45 AM   #22
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Spy,

There are a few people that can tell you that the back end of a broken slide will indeed hit you in the face.
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Old June 7, 2005, 01:17 PM   #23
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Yeah Jack, P&D didn't have to help. They didn't have to shut the door in my face either. Good customer service is taking that one extra step.

I called another dealer,Tetragon-Tasse, that gentleman dug out the Walther distributor's phone number AND offered to help out if I got any resistance? He wasn't connected to my problem at all but chose to take that extra step to help out.

Folks, I'm not writing for fun. My gun broke 'prematurely'. I thought y'all should know about it. I've tried to document my experience, real-time. You could say I put my chances of having Walther fix the gun on the line doing this. I'm for the people, not weapons manufacturers.

Guess what? I can't wait to start shooting the gun again! I love the gun! I never said put your P22s in the microwave and melt em down.

I'm no expert on gun building but I'm suggesting, the compromise might NOT have occurred during the construction of my particular gun, but in a board-room, long before my gun was built.

My goal is the next time you see someone ask about the p22, you talk about more than just how much fun it is to shoot and the odd feeding issues. You might start with a history of the Saturday Night Special.

[hang on, let me put on my bullet proof vest...]
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Old June 7, 2005, 04:03 PM   #24
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Seriously man, first things first. Get your gun fixed, for free if you can. If the bastards in the board room did indeed cut corners to make production costs lower, you should do whatever you have to do to get your gun fixed for FREE! I know I would.


But c'mon, I would hardly call a 6000 round gun a "saturday night special".
Heck I have put a lot more than 6000 rounds through each of my P22's.

And in all honesty, you probably got your money's worth already if you look at it in mathematical terms. 6000 rounds is approximately 10 bulk packs (550rds per pack) of ammo at $7 a box plus the initial price of the gun (in my case $229) divided by the total number of rounds fired and that would leave you with approximately $.05 per round fired (5 cents per shot). Thats pretty good compared to a lot of guns, though not good at all compared to a MKII that is the same price and will go 100,000 rounds with no breakage. Just a thought.
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Old June 7, 2005, 07:00 PM   #25
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Okay, I will play. wayneniamat, you started this thread and I'm sorry, you forgot to introduce yourself. Start with what qualifies YOU to predict what could happen when a Walther P22 breaks 18inches from your face!

Let me help you with your answer with a quote from you..."I'm no expert on gun building..."

...I thought so.

-----

Sorry man, but when I read overly emotional and exagerated claims about what could happen and oh the horrrors of what could happen to bystanders, I am amazed.

I did have part of the information wrong. I had to pull up a complete side view of a P22 to realize where the crack had occurred. Sorry, I had it in a different place and had the slide coming off the rails before coming backwards. I see now that you have it shooting back at your face using the rails as the directional launch platform.

Since you didn't snap of the end, we can't weight it to get an estimate on the mass and then convert the power of the charge of the .22 lr cartridge still present after it has launched the projectile forward, taking into effect friction and the amount of force needed to effect the rest of the break. You simply are not going to have a lot of energy left to fling that part backwards, assuming the part could be flung backwards.

I would have been a lot more impressed if you had a catastrophic stoppage in the barrel that resulted in an overpressure situation, but what is being described here seems to be the back end of the slide coming off during recoil due to some sort of stress fracture that has developed.

But in looking at the pictures, it isn't just the back end of the slide, but the back 4/5. That is a lot of mass to be claiming to be pushed back with damaging force to cause harm with the residual power left in the .22 lr after the slug has moved forward.

Let's see, and the rear 4/5 of the slide will be moving backwards on the rails, those short little rails, and that is going to assume that the dynamic and uncontrolled release of pressure allowing the slide to be forced backwards won't torque the slide on the rails and thereby greatly slowing or totally halting the rearward progression.

And from your posts, wayne, you obviously didn't really think that you were in that much jeopardy of the supposedly dangerous rearward traveling slide. You stated
Quote:
I'm no expert on gun building but I'm suggesting, the compromise might NOT have occurred during the construction of my particular gun, but in a board-room, long before my gun was built.
I am fairly certain that if you thought the gun defective because of some sort of design flaw as you suggest by noting you feel the problem comes from the boardroom, then you would have to be crazy to want to have another and thereby subject yourself to the same design flaw danger and supposedly risk the danger to your head and to that of the bystanders behind you that you claim exists. If it is a design flaw, then it isn't going to be just in your gun, is it? Nope.

So maybe you get a booboo on your lip. I'll bring you a bandaid. Wait, no I won't. There isn't any reason to provide such care for folks who knowingly work with power tools they have deemed defective and dangerous.
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