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Old March 30, 2000, 09:02 PM   #1
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Over a week ago, one of the networks ran a bleeding heart piece on "canned hunts".(Correct me if I'm using the wrong term.) I didn't see it myself, but I came home to find her QUITE distraught over it.

They showed various hunters who had their quarry "penned-in" for them to kill. Fenced-in, private ranches I guess. She related that they picked up the carcasses, and dumped them into large pits with other animals. She said it was clear that neither
the meat, nor the hides were harvested. Some heads were taken as trophies. They also seemed intent on showing the slow(painful?) deaths of several of the animals.

I do not hunt, but, I am not anti-hunting at all. I do know the wildlife management principles behind hunting, and am aware of its benefits. I have to question though, if these "hunts" are condoned by the majority of you hunters out there. Or, are most of you somewhat "put out" over it yourselves?

I appreciate any education you might provide us on this. Thanks.
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Old March 30, 2000, 09:30 PM   #2
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IMHO most hunters would not condone such a massacare,because what you are talking about is not hunting it is just killing plain and simple. I believe it is morally and ethicaly wrong. I feel that these types of "game ranges" give legitamite hunters a bad name and will sway those who are standing on the fence with hunting issues. For those who disagree with me,OH-WELL. Like I said it is my opinion but I do feel very strongly about this issue. Steve
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Old March 30, 2000, 10:56 PM   #3
Art Eatman
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We had a canned-hunt problem in Texas, but nobody objected to the Legislature's outlawing canned hunts. We had to get a better definition than "confined" as proposed in the first go-round, as the original would have outlawed a deer-fenced pasture of even 10,000 acres!

Anyway, what happened was that a very few people had acquired aged big cats. Like an African lion with one foot in the grave and the rest on banana peels. The macho "hunter" would shoot the lion as it was let out of an iron-barred cage, from a range of a few feet. This sort of thing. Had nothing to do with hunting. But, it's amazing how many thousands of dollars an idiot would pay!

Like I say, it was outlawed.

As to the TV program, I didn't see it. I don't know where or when it was filmed. If it was in a state where the laws still allow it, it's certainly a good opportunity to start a furor to outlaw it. Canned hunts are absolutely despicable. It would make "attaboys" for our side, aside from being morally righteous.

Regards, Art
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Old March 31, 2000, 12:53 PM   #4
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I hate the "killing" as described in your post as I'm sure all true hunters do. Hunting is not just about conservation. Its pitting skills with animals who have far greater sensory abilities than man ever will. I treat all game animals with the greatest respect and admiration for their survival abilities.

ps- some of my best hunts involved no shooting or taking of game. The outdoors and all its wonderments are enough for me.
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Old April 1, 2000, 08:52 PM   #5
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I saw most of it, can't remember which show or network it was on. It was a total anti-hunting piece. The main clip that they showed several times, was of some incompetent idiot with a bow, sticking a Corsican ram with about 6 arrows, none in the vitals, in a small fenced-in area, at a distance of about 30 feet, finally finished it off with a gun. The network then did a set up at three different game ranches (each with total operations of 300 acres or less) in 3 states where they booked a "hunt" on several exotic species in small fenced in areas. They sent in their "hunter", a guy who they claimed was an avid target shooter -with absolutely no intentions of shooting an animal, missing intentionally, so that they wouldn't hurt one of these poor creatures. I really don't believe the guy was any kind of shooter, anybody who is involved with firearms in any way would have to realize that taking part in this kind of production makes all hunters/gunowners look like a bunch of murdering slobs, and only furthers the anti-hunting/anti-gun cause. The piece was deliberately set up so that all hunters looked bad, especially those that pay to hunt at a ranch, and the ranch owners who are charging people to shoot "tame" wild animals that were bred on the ranch and probably know the ranch owner/ranchhands as the guys that bring them food. They focused on a couple of small ranches that have what I would consider to be pretty poor ethics, without ever saying that most "hunting ranches" are many times bigger. They did mention in passing that there are bigger ranches but that was about it, and considering that most of the people in this country have no idea what an acre is, 300 sounds like a lot of them, especially when they are showing nice panoramic views on the screen, but when they get to the part about shooting the animals, they are always "backed against the fence", "cornered by the fence" , or "near the fenced in feeding area" showing the animals standing by the 8' high gameproof fence.
They did have one guy on "defending" hunting, but he was such an elitist snob, or was edited in such a way, that he appeared to be condemning all that did not measure up to his lofty ideals and expensive 2 week pack in trips to remote wilderness areas.
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Old April 1, 2000, 09:51 PM   #6
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Bergie, thanks for the input. But, do you condone it, or not?
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Old April 2, 2000, 12:02 AM   #7
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I saw that piece of garbage too. It is no surprise to me that the program, I think it was Dateline,would be so unscupulous as to show hunters in a positive light. Remember THE GUNS OF AUTUMN? The same old crap.
It's too damn bad we cannot sue the netwotk and the particular program for fostering cruelty to animals, because I'd donate to that suit in a heartbeat.
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Old April 2, 2000, 01:39 AM   #8
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I could be a little presuptuous but I would have to say YES, OF COURSE MOST OF US (HUNTERS) are put out by this kind of crap. I can't imagine what kind of idiot thinks hunting involves corals or any other small fenced-in area. That is not what I consider hunting at all. All true hunters are very respectful of the game they hunt and would not condone or participate in this kind of thing. Unfortunately if you look hard enough you can always find people who do dispicable things. Some anti-hunters decided to look that hard and then portrayed this as a "normal hunting excursion". They obviously do this kind of thing for shock value to support their cause. Of course it is offensive to hunters and certainly not even close to what hunting is all about. These anti-hunters don't care that they are being misleading. They simply are targeting people who know nothing about hunting and trying to convert them to their cause.
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Old April 2, 2000, 06:44 PM   #9
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I saw the piece. I'll be honest, the outfits they showed deserve to be shut down. They are not about hunting, they are about shooting and killing. Yes, there is a difference. The trade industry representative interviewed to defend the "hunting ranches" was disappointing. He did little to explain his position beyond stating that an ethical hunt could be conducted on less than 50 acres if done right. However, I do not believe that across the board stereo types should be made. I can see how a large ranch can gaurantee ethical conditions. I don't have a problem per se with that.

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Old April 2, 2000, 07:06 PM   #10
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Thanks everyone. I seems that a ranch hunt, per se, is OK if the critter has a sporting chance to escape you. I have no problem with that. I agree that it must have been artfully executed to disparage hunting and hunters in general. Should we really expect anything more from our network media?
I think if I ever get up the nerve, my first quarry will be javelina or feral hog. That way, if I should see it suffer or linger at all, I don't feel that I'll get too upset. They are rather ugly, swarthy, little critters.
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Old April 5, 2000, 10:23 AM   #11
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I do not call these acitivities hunting BUT I don't think that anyone has a right to stop these "Canned Hunts". If a person owns an animal and can find someone who wants to pay for the right to kill the animal, I see no justification for interfernce by the government. The only possible exception would be a situation where the animal was intentionally being tortured, that should be a crime. Being a poor marksman or uneducated regarding the most profecient way to kill an animal should not be a crime, just a tragedy. I have never participated in such a hunt nor would I ever, but just because it doesn't appeal to me doesn't mean that it should be prohibited. Stubby
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Old April 5, 2000, 06:40 PM   #12
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I watched a show on the Outdoor Channel some months ago about an outfit up in Colorado called "Avery Ranch" that truly turned my stomach. This was an infomercial dressed up like a hunting show for this Avery bozo. In one scene they show this Avery guy HAND feeding bull elk, then they show the "hunt" in which they transport the elk to an 1100 acre pasture where Avery calls the the animal in(stops just short of ringing a dinner bell), and the hunter shoots the confused critter. The animal looked clearly bewildered, having probably never seen outside the corral.
It gets worse. A week later on "Keith Warren Outdoors" ol' Keith was a guest at the Avery Ranch. Now I grew up watching Mr. Warren on "Fishing Texas", and later "Keith Warren Outdoors", and was always a fan. Until I saw him hunt at Avery Ranch. They made it clear that this hunt was late in the year, after all of Avery's better animals had been taken. They set up the blind about 50 yards from a FEED TROUGH, and wait. Keith is hunting with a crossbow. Sure enough, about breakfast-time a herd of elk, all nearly identical smallish 6x6 bulls come to feed. Keith takes his pick, and shoots the animal. The shot is a little far back, but fatal. They keep editing, showin Keith & Avery watch the elk, then back to the elk. It is obvious by the growing pool of blood on the ground, and the fact that they show the animal lay down, get up, lay back down, that the animal took quite a long time to die. I can't imagine why Keith couldn't spare another bolt from the crossbow to help the elk on his way, but he didn't. Keith Warren was someone I Idolized growing up, and I lost every ounce of respect for him in the space of a 1/2 show.

Now if killing livestock is what turns you on, that's your business (Certainly Avery's), but don't call it hunting. And don't put it on TV and represent it to the general public as such.

Sorry so long
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