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Old August 8, 2004, 03:00 PM   #1
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Do you know what this is?

I have this shotgun/ rifle combo. All I know is that it is a double barrel 16 Ga, with I believe to be an 8mm rifle barrel underneath. The only name I can find on it is "Kruppscher Stahl", there are a couple of stamp on it but that is it, the rest is just engravings.

Here are some pictures.
Nothing to see here, move along.
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Old August 10, 2004, 12:25 PM   #2
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get your translator out!
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Old August 10, 2004, 01:59 PM   #3
Harley Nolden
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Your rifle/combo appers to be German, the Kruppstahl is translated to Krupp steel, which is definetly German. The term for this piece is "Drilling" the German word for Tripple, meaning three bbls.

The Germans made these guns from very early on. It aforded them a rifle and a shotgun in one. Most are custom made pieces, as yours appears to be and with very ornate engraving and wood work. These guns are not just ordinary guns and are held at a very high value. I would take it to an established appriaser for value. It ain't cheep

Sometimes a gunmaker would put his mark or name on the gun. This is sometimes located on the water table of the reciever. (Remove the forearm, and open the bbls. They should come off once opened. The water table is the portion that extends from the receiver and is the locking device for the bbls) You should also find the proof marks etc there. Some of these Drillings were made in the U.S. By Baker arms. Yours does not look like a Baker to me.

I looked on the stock of your gun for an acorn, that is the only marking that I know of the Maker. Knew his great grand son. Didn't find it there.

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Old August 10, 2004, 11:19 PM   #4
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You definetly need to fill us in when you find out more about it.
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Old August 11, 2004, 06:17 AM   #5
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Could you recommend an appriaser in the Dallas Fort Worth area? I took the forearm off and that were several differ marks and markings. The letters 'K.B." appear, and there are several symbol that has a crown over the letter "G" or over the letter "U". I tried to take a picture of the symbols but that did not work to well.


Whatever I find out I will post it here.
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Old August 11, 2004, 07:58 AM   #6
Jim Watson
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Those little concealed markings, "crown G", "crown U" and probably the K.B. are German proof marks. We might could use them to get a very general idea of when your Drilling was made, but no information on the maker.

That is an unusual design of Drilling, apparently striker fired with the heads of the strikers protruding out the back of the receiver. Don't think I have seen the like, and there are a LOT of odd design European guns from the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

There are several 8mm cartridges that were used in Drillings. It is certainly not an 8x57 Mauser and might not even be an 8x57R (rimmed.)
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Old August 11, 2004, 09:01 AM   #7
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Beautifull!!! Very interesting and unusual piece.

Try perusing this website, may give you a lead to info on your gun:

My uneducated guess is that your gun is what is known as a "Guild" gun. Built in Germany prior to WW1. Guns were built by several small shops each shop specializing in a particular part of the gunmaking operation. One shop would make the action, another would strike and fit the Barrels and still another would fit the stock. But then what do I know (Too many hours reading "Double Gun Journal", a little knowledge can be dangerous).

Be verry carefull with the rifle barrel, especially if it turns out to be 8X57. There are two different 8X57 rounds and older guns cannot handle the newer 8X57. If I can find the article I will post it.

Good luck, and it is a beautiful gun.
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Old August 12, 2004, 12:45 PM   #8
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Try these - -

thumbtack, you might try - - -

Mike's Gun Room, in Richardson, just a few blocks off US 75/Central, near Belt Line 972-994-9298. Mike Brown handles a lot of estate dispositions and is very knowledgeable about a wide variety of firearms and militaria. Though not a specialist in drillings, he was interested when I called and asked for someone to help you.

Richard Neinast is a private individual, not a dealer/appraiser, but collects guns of this sort. His cell phone is 972-342-7769. Mike recommends him, and says y'all can meet at his shop if you wish.

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Old August 13, 2004, 04:41 PM   #9
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Thanks Johnny,

I will contact them next week. I have to go out of town this weekend, but I will contact them on Monday.
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Old August 21, 2004, 09:46 AM   #10
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can't add anything as far as information...but just wanted to say that is truly a thing of beauty!
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