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Old October 28, 2002, 03:01 PM   #1
Big Arm Hannigan
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For those of you that participate in matches that require ...

a pistol caliber carbine and shotgun, what do you use and/or recommend and why?
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Old October 28, 2002, 03:12 PM   #2
Jim Watson
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Cowboy or modern?
I don't know of a modern event that requires a "pistol caliber" carbine, guess there might be some on tight ranges.
I shoot IDPA and IPSC three-gun with an AR15 and a Remington 1100. If I had to have a pistol caliber carbine, I would look for a 9mm upper for the AR.
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Old October 28, 2002, 03:26 PM   #3
Big Arm Hannigan
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Oops! Should have stated modern. This match requires a pistol caliber because the targets are up close and some are steel.
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Old October 28, 2002, 10:11 PM   #4
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The first choice would be ...

something in the same caliber as your handgun.

Ruger makes a carbine in 9x19 and 40 S&W. Marlin used to, there are some around. I don't know if Colt still makes the AR series carbine in 9x19. It was a bit spendy for a limited purpose gun, in my thought.

Don't count out a lever gun, if legal. They get wiped out if you have to do a thirty round burst, but if it's a shooter's match rather than an equipment match, they do well.
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Old October 28, 2002, 10:24 PM   #5
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I have never shot in a match like that but I would probably go with the Ruger PC-9. It uses the same magazines as their P89, and standard capacity magazines are readily available at a reasonable price along with 30 round stick mags.
Another option might be the Kel-Tec carbine if you shoot a Glock since they use Glock mags.
The cream of the crop would be an upper for an AR, assuming you already own an AR. I don't know about pricing, but it might not be the most expensive route. The Ruger PC-9 is not cheap, I am pretty sure it is over $400.
A budget consideration might be a Hi-Point 9mm Carbine. Hi-Point firearms are butt ugly, but my carbine runs fine and exhibits accuracy comparable to my Ruger PC-9 at about half the price.
Then of course as suggested, there are the lever action rifles in pistol calibers. I don't know what kind of senario you are shooting, so it is difficult to know if the slow reloading time would be a factor.
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Old October 28, 2002, 11:13 PM   #6
Neil Casper
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The ranges where I used to shoot 3-gun did not want anyone perforating their steel so limited it to pistol caliber.

I bought a Ruger PC9 just for this purpose. Good accuracy, cheap ammo, high cap mags available. I have 10, 15, 20, and 30 round mags for it.

I have used a Weaver 1-3x scope, red dot, or iron as required.
The trigger is not match quality, but better than any Marlin Camp Carbine I ever tried.
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Old October 29, 2002, 07:00 AM   #7
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Hmm, as I'm shooting SSR in IDPA.. perhaps this would justify a .357mag lever gun... woopee!

Heck, might as well go hog wild and get a double barrel 12ga that'd sure make it fun!
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Old October 29, 2002, 10:05 AM   #8
Big Arm Hannigan
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Thanks for the replies! I am going to start out with our cowboy lever guns, but eventually will get something else. Anybody tried one of those conversion units that go on a 1911 frame?
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Old October 29, 2002, 10:05 AM   #9
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Those Mech-Tech uppers are getting to be pretty popular. I finally broke down and joined the herd with one for my Glock 22. With 30-round sticks, the full length rail, and a PDP3, it is pretty darn slick.

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Old October 29, 2002, 03:27 PM   #10
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If you are refering to USPSA 3-gun or SOF, the only rifles that are competitive are AR-15's of various makes. Shotguns are allways autoloaders. Steel is for the shotgun only.
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Old October 31, 2002, 06:05 PM   #11
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I've been seeing Remington 11-87's set up for "tactical" shooting ie rifle sights or ghost rings, short barrel, extended mag for under $300. If I wanted a NEW shotgun that's the one I'd buy.

If your rifle has to be in a "pistol" caliber, I'd opt for something that uses mags for a pistol you already have... unless an M-1 Carbine is legal?

Low Price:
Hi-Point: Cheap, reliable. Pistol gripped for on ehanded operation. (Downside: no hi-caps, ugly, was used in Columbine shootings, not as accurate as others)

Median Price Range:
Ruger PC rifles: Use Ruger Pistol Mags. Hi-Caps galore. (Downside: heavier than others, no pistol grip)
Marlin Camp Carbines: Use SW or 1911 pattern mags, again Hi-caps galore (Downside: discontinued, doesn't look "tactical" no pistol grip)

Higher price range:
M1 Carbine: Uses GI Mags, zillions of them around, hard hitting caliber (compared to many pistols), collectible, historical, light. (downside: more expensive to shoot, no pistol grip)

High price range:
Colt AR15 9mm/SW-94/HK-94: well made good looking rifles that accept hi-cap mags and have lots of "tactical" features (downside: expensive mags, may be "banned" in your locale, higher prices, taller sights compared to bore.
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