The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 23, 1999, 12:29 AM   #1
Walt Welch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 1998
Location: Alamo, CA
Posts: 424
I am thinking of enlarging my rifle collection. I have only a few centerfire rifles, the most recent being a HBAR Colt Sporter.

I have been impressed with a HK91, in .308 cal. if I got the model number right. What has been the experience of the forum members with this firearm. I would be getting the one with the non folding stock (A2 I believe). Thanks for the help, Walt
Walt Welch is offline  
Old January 23, 1999, 12:50 AM   #2
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 20,387
Walt,

The fixed stock HK91 was the gun of my college days (when they were new off the shelf at $350-$385). While the balance was never as good as a sporting rifle (top heavy thanks to the bolt carrier), one could easily keep everything within a 4" target at 100 yards at rapid fire. Mind you, none of us were trained or schooled in formal rifle shooting. We loaded the mags and blasted away as soon as we recovered from the recoil. Being relatively poor (we all worked our ways through school), we didn't even bother to change target from shooter to shooter. Great camaraderie and everybody loved the fact that we kept it in the bullseye with the miminal of training (generally me tellling them how to use that drum sight and to keep the front post on the target). Ammo was generally the cheap (affordable to us) PMC ($4 for a box of 20).

On slow fire, it would shoot much tighter groups and was capable of 1" or less, depending on the ammo.

Check out an earlier thread on the FN-FAL v. HK91 in this forum. Yes there are other guns out there; some of which are arguably more accurate or ergonomic (like the SR25) If you buy an HK, you won't regret it. One advantage of the HK over the SR is the price of high capacity mags ($20 v. $100).
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old January 23, 1999, 01:40 AM   #3
Scott Evans
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: December 7, 1998
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 1,380
I had an HK 91 10 years or so back … I sold the thing for $800 … I don’t sell any of my weapons anymore as I always wish later on that I had them back. It was a fine rifle in every way however, all things considered, I would pick the Springfield M1-A ….(M-14) over the HK 91. Reliability is excellent as well as accuracy and the overall feel IMO is very well balanced.. Also, there are a number of combinations available to suit your preference.
Scott Evans is offline  
Old January 23, 1999, 04:48 PM   #4
ShadedDude
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1998
Location: TN
Posts: 254
What kind of rifle are you looking for?

Hunting/sporting/mean looking.....

------------------

Mouse Assassins inc.
ShadedDude is offline  
Old January 23, 1999, 05:31 PM   #5
Walt Welch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 1998
Location: Alamo, CA
Posts: 424
Shaded Dude; I am looking for a not too aggressive looking assault rifle. Something for those times when you want to reach out and touch somebody, but the .223 just isn't enough. I will probably stick with iron sights on this rifle, as my HBAR sporter has a scope (only; any one know where I can pick up a rear sight assembly for a flat top receiver?).

The idea of the M1-A is an interesting one, but I am afraid I would find myself trying to push those eight round en bloc clips down from the top. At least I wouldn't get M1-A thumb, would I? Walt
Walt Welch is offline  
Old January 23, 1999, 06:04 PM   #6
swehrman
Member
 
Join Date: October 10, 1998
Location: Kalispell, MT. USA
Posts: 26
Walt if you look at http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog/scopesmounts.html you will find about three different rear sight assemblies for flat top uppers.
swehrman is offline  
Old January 23, 1999, 06:50 PM   #7
ShadedDude
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 1998
Location: TN
Posts: 254
Well if you wanted a ugly assault rifle I'd say a mini-30, from the "what were they thinking" line. I personaly dont like ugly assault rifles so I would say HK91 is a good choice.

Have you thought about a Bullpup?



------------------

Mouse Assassins inc.
ShadedDude is offline  
Old January 23, 1999, 06:52 PM   #8
dundee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 1998
Location: mytown,mi,usa
Posts: 162
The Fal is the best 308 autoloader avail. that I have seen/shot. One feature I really like is the ability to adjust the gas port to match the ammo. If I want to load wimp ammo for a new shooter I can adjust the port open.
When I go back to full power I readjust. Being a reloader I REALLY appreciate not having to hunt for my brass anywhere up to 75 ft. away like the HK sling-a-matic slings the brass. I also like the ability to clean the barrel from the rear. The Springfield is a nice gun but you must clean the barrel from the front. I have overheard NRA match shooters complaining about the gun being magazine sensitive.
The SR25 armilite might be a good gun. The writeups are positive and we all like the AR configuration.
dundee is offline  
Old January 23, 1999, 09:28 PM   #9
olazul
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Walt,
If you are looking at FN/FAL type rifles take a gander at [email protected] They are offering new FAL rifles(SA58) and it is all metric- american made.
Olazul
 
Old January 24, 1999, 09:20 AM   #10
fal308
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 12, 1998
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,986
DSA makes too good of a weapon as they now have a two month backorder.
fal308 is offline  
Old January 24, 1999, 01:36 PM   #11
Edmund Rowe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 1998
Location: Warner Robins, GA USA
Posts: 351
Walt Welch:

Uh, were you joking about pushing 8 round clips through the top of an M-1A?

M-1A is a Springfield Inc. semi-auto M-14 with a 20 round detachable mag out the bottom. .308 caliber.

M-1 GARAND is the 8 round clip thing that loads through the top. .30-06 usually.

If you want to reach out and touch someone I'd get a Remington 700 with good glass.
Your definition of want/need is confusing. "Assault rifle" is usually semi-auto intermediate power cartridge like .223 or 7.62x39 for engaging multiple targets up close, usually less than 100 yards. But when you say "Reach out and Touch someone" I think 600 yards at least. Generally single targets shot with care and precision.

Best least threatening appearance rifles in semi-auto are M-1 Garand/M-14/M-1A/ Mini-14.

Edmund
Edmund Rowe is offline  
Old January 25, 1999, 09:04 AM   #12
fal308
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 12, 1998
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,986
There is a new weapon about to be built based on the Stoner 63. See www.robarm.com. for details.
fal308 is offline  
Old January 25, 1999, 02:46 PM   #13
.
Staff
 
Join Date: October 6, 1998
Location: My wife's house...
Posts: 2,659
Walt,

The reliable action, hunting caliber, and relatively low profile of the Galil Hadar hunting rifle (Galil/AK action) may be just the rifle to which you aspire. If you've difficulty locating one, email me, as I know of one for sale in my locale.
. is offline  
Old January 26, 1999, 12:07 AM   #14
old biker
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 13, 1999
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 31
Avoid FALs. Lousy fighting gun. Why exactly does it have an adjustable gas system? Because it cruds up and then ya fool with it. The Israilis even got rid of them and they were free! All the AK variants work very well but are not as accurate as the H&K or the Springfield. the Devine Texas M-1As and M-14s were outstanding. I've been testing the AR-10 for about a year, still hav'nt got much ammo thru it. The 91 is the battle rifle to go out the door with. I first saw one in Colo. The H&K demo was amazing. Buried guns in the mud and water etc. Saw Satterwhite put toothpaste in the mags before firing full auto. NO JAMS. The M1-A is a proven military rifle also, lotsa parts and mags. I bought an H&K, but did'nt sell my M-21. Just swapped for a Springfield M1A Bushrifle but hav'nt shot it yet.

------------------

AFFA
old biker is offline  
Old January 27, 1999, 06:48 PM   #15
Walt Welch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 3, 1998
Location: Alamo, CA
Posts: 424
Thank you gentlemen for your thought provoking responses. I think I shall search out some locals with the different firearms mentioned, and try them out.

Edmund Rowe; yes, I was joking about trying to shove a Garand en bloc clip down the top of the magazine fed M-1A. You do have to admit, though, that the M-1A sure looks like a Garand with a box magazine.

Shaded Dude, I have thought of a bullpup, but the idea of having 50,000 of pressure right next to my neck is somewhat disconcerting.

Thanks a lot guys, and keep the suggestions coming; one can never have too much info. Walt


Walt Welch is offline  
Old January 27, 1999, 09:50 PM   #16
Kurt
Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: CT
Posts: 42
Walt,

For "weekend" shooting I generally lean toward the Garand and the M1A as my favorite "fun" military rifles. However, let me offer the following observations concerning the HK 91 (a.k.a. the G3, 41, 911, SR9, PSG1).

Frankly, I can't imagine a more practical .30 caliber battle rifle than the HK 91. I have owned several and found the G3 derivative guns to be uniformly excellent and suprisingly accurate.

The HK is tremendously versatile. It is a "tough as nails" battle rifle that can be easily fitted out as an MOA sniper rifle.

The HK recoil buffer system works extremely well; making the gun very comfortable to shoot all day. It is certainly the "softest" 30 caliber rifle I've ever fired.

As I mentioned, The HK is also very easy to modify with "plug in" stocks, trigger groups, bipods, carry handles, etc... The gun disassembles in seconds and all of these parts install without tools.

One of the 91's most endearing qualities is how well it handles. The HK is shorter than most rifles of similar breed; so it handles like a carbine. For me, the 91 comes up to the shoulder easily and balances perfectly.

The "drum" sights are strong, convenient to adjust, and easy to use. It is remarkable how this gun will knock over 8" steel plates at 200 yards all day long; with no fuss, no muss, no scope, just load, shoot, and hit -- hard! A really amazing weapon.

On the downside; the HK G3 is a difficult gun to mount a scope on. There is an aluminum alloy copy of the steel HK claw mount being advertised in the gun-list. I bought one of these and found it was very well made, much lighter than the factory mount, and half the price.

Original parts are expensive; but I doubt you'll ever need many; although you might want to keep a spare spring kit and firing pin on hand. Surplus maintenance kits with these parts are currently available for $45.00

The PSG1 trigger is a marvel of engineering and plugs in easily. You can install the part in less than two minutes without tools. It has a little takeup and breaks cleanly at about 4lbs. It feels positive; but is not at all similar to an M1 trigger.

The standard trigger also breaks cleanly; but is on the heavy side. It is not a target trigger; but is about what you'd expect on this kind of weapon.

As for esthetics, IMHO, the HK91/G3 is the most attractive rifle of the "genre". My favorite configuration is with the standard stock and trimline forearm. The combination makes for a sleek, subtle, (dare I even say elegant?) "bad-ass" rifle. If James Bond were to sling a battle rifle over his tuxedo -- I think the G3 would be the one!

My Garand and my M1A are excellent rifles, they have wood, and they have charm. The HK, on the other hand, has "style"!

The HK91 was designed to be indestructible and functions with the characteristic teutonic reliability that borders on boring repetition.

The FN is also excellent and vies for first position with the HK. Many prefer the FN and if you choose either of these top contenders I'm sure you won't be dissappointed.

With all this said:

The HK is not my favorite rifle, and not necessarily my favorite military rifle; but if I NEEDED a battle rifle, or could only choose ONE rifle -- the HK 91 would be my first choice.

Good Shooting,

Kurt


Kurt is offline  
Old January 28, 1999, 03:12 AM   #17
Jeff Thomas
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 1998
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,753
Ignorant question, I'm sure. But, has the HK91 been replaced by the G3? I can't find any mention of HK91's except for what appears to be 'old news'. Thanks.
Jeff Thomas is offline  
Old January 28, 1999, 08:44 AM   #18
.
Staff
 
Join Date: October 6, 1998
Location: My wife's house...
Posts: 2,659
Jeff,
The HK-91 is the semi-automatic configuration of the Gewehr-3 (G-3). The earlier G1 was the FN-FAL design. The G3 is an adaptation of the Spanish CETME, which was designed by German engineers that fled the mess during WWII, taking with them the plans for the development of small arms based on the Volgrimmler-Stecke (sp?) Lock.
. is offline  
Old January 28, 1999, 03:54 PM   #19
David
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 1999
Posts: 121

Did I mention that I have an M1A1 for sale with a lot of goodies. See the "for sale" rifle listings on this site. Let's make a deal...
David is offline  
Old December 9, 2008, 07:07 PM   #20
21CFA
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2005
Posts: 146
M1A I.D. questions

How does one determine if a gun is a Springfield, or a Devine M-1A? Is there a spec-sheet one can access to I.D. a certain gun? Or serial numbers? Thanks.
21CFA is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08517 seconds with 7 queries