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Old February 4, 2002, 02:24 AM   #1
striderteen
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BB Gun Mods

Okay, gentlemen, here's the deal. My parents are content to rely on the cops, but I'm not.

Now that I'm 18 and in college (but still at home on the weekends, as we live near campus), they've (reluctantly) okayed a Daisy Powerline 880 BB/pellet rifle.

Is there any way at all to modify a BB rifle like this into an even marginally viable defensive weapon? I'm thinking something along the lines of overpressurizing the pump system for higher velocity and maybe modifying the loading system so I can put multiple BBs in the barrel...fire a pumped-up burst of BBs, like a baby shotgun.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.
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Old February 4, 2002, 06:19 AM   #2
Joe Demko
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Daisy products are not made of materials that lend themselves to such projects. If you are limited to an airgun, you'd be better served to get a good quality piece that has a stock muzzle velocity worth considering. For example, you can pick up a Webley Tempest or Webley Hurricane (difference is in the sights) for about $150. Either one will give you 400-500 fps with a .177 pellet, depending on pellet weight. The guns themselves are very durable and will last for years.
Really, if you are wedded to the Daisy and have no chance to buy any other airgun, you might want to discard the idea f using it for defense at all. The only way to make it even microscopically more effective would be to fire airgun darts from it, if it will chamber them.
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Old February 4, 2002, 11:45 AM   #3
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two things

Come to mind regarding your question....

1) When grabbed by the barrel and swung with force, the BB gun would make a really good close quarters weapon.

2) The BG might....and note that I use the word "might" mistake the BB gun for a real one and run.

Otherwise, I'd opt for a really good oak stick!
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Old February 4, 2002, 11:48 AM   #4
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Go buy a shotgun and keep it hidden in your closet. Its easier to apologize than get consent, as I found out with my parents when I started buying guns (I was in a similar situation as you are). Were you in Boy Scouts?

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Old February 4, 2002, 12:36 PM   #5
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I'm with Kharn here. Pick up a used 870 or hell, even one of those NEF single shots. If you live in off-campus housing you can keep your gun there. Just keep it at your apt. and don't bring it home ever. Stoke it with some small shot and you'll be good for HD.
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Old February 4, 2002, 12:37 PM   #6
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I think Kharn has got the right plan. I carry around my mother who is the archetype blissninny, she has seen gunsitting in my car and such, but never knows when I carry around her. Just do it.
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Old February 4, 2002, 01:56 PM   #7
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I'd keep a Remington 870, but firearms are strictly banned here on campus, and I don't have any decent places to hide one at home. If I move to off-campus housing, first thing on the move-in list is the shottie.

It's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six, but my parents would kill me if I dropped out of school, and I would get expelled if they found the gun, even if I used it in self-defense. So it adds up to the same thing.
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Old February 4, 2002, 01:58 PM   #8
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Hmm...do you guys know of any knives that could easily be adapted to use as a bayonet on the Daisy? A pike's a lot more effective than a club, and I'm quite good with stabbing weapons because of my fencing experience.
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Old February 4, 2002, 03:35 PM   #9
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Guy, if you REALLY wanna hack someone off, point a BB gun at 'em. And if you want 'em to unload a large economy jar of whoopass on you, pull the trigger. I've actually been shot by a Daisy Powerline 880. It didn't go through the jeans, but did raise a welt on my leg.

1. Get a bayonet, preferably a long one. If someone tries climbing in the windows, start cutting off everything that's inside the window.

2. Get a softball or baseball bat. See above window scenario for use, with appropriate modification of action.

3. Does the school have a rifle/shooting team? Tell your parents you're trying out for it, and go buy a bull-barrel 10/22... Likewise the school may have a trap or skeet team or club. Hence the shotgun...

4. Ever consider muzzleloaders? Are you into history? If not, start getting into it...
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Old February 4, 2002, 03:37 PM   #10
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Oh yeah - Since your folks sound like the basic "ohmigawdgunzrbad!" folks, you'd better be DARN careful with how you store it. I'd recommend a locked case, preferably with a trigger/chamber/well lock, and the ammo stored in a separate place. Non-gun folks can be VERY dangerous - They'll do things like pick one up, point it at you, and then ask you if you're scared, etc...
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Old February 4, 2002, 03:38 PM   #11
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BB gun barrel would be a very effective stopper with a well executed lunge. Not strong enough to take much lateral force tho.

Sam
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Old February 4, 2002, 03:49 PM   #12
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Get a Winchester 94 in 30/30. Tell your parents that it's a Dasiy "Red Ryder". Pour BB's in the action if they're not convinced.
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Old February 4, 2002, 10:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Oh yeah - Since your folks sound like the basic "ohmigawdgunzrbad!" folks, you'd better be DARN careful with how you store it. I'd recommend a locked case, preferably with a trigger/chamber/well lock, and the ammo stored in a separate place. Non-gun folks can be VERY dangerous - They'll do things like pick one up, point it at you, and then ask you if you're scared, etc...
They're more intelligent that that, actually. They're not true antis; they just don't like guns, and like I said, they think the combination of safe neighorhood and good PD is sufficient protection.

Dad's somewhat swayed by my arguments regarding the Constitution and RKBA, but thinks armed resistance to the government is obsolete and suicidal because of the odds (I'm highly surprised at this, since he lived through the Vietnam War). He's semi-sympathetic to the cause, but feels that nonviolent resistance is the only valid option.

Anyway, neither of them would touch my BB gun with a six-foot pole, and they won't let me shoot it in the house either (there is enough room to set up a proper target, but no dice).
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Old February 4, 2002, 10:14 PM   #14
striderteen
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Guy, if you REALLY wanna hack someone off, point a BB gun at 'em. And if you want 'em to unload a large economy jar of whoopass on you, pull the trigger. I've actually been shot by a Daisy Powerline 880. It didn't go through the jeans, but did raise a welt on my leg.

1. Get a bayonet, preferably a long one. If someone tries climbing in the windows, start cutting off everything that's inside the window.

2. Get a softball or baseball bat. See above window scenario for use, with appropriate modification of action.

3. Does the school have a rifle/shooting team? Tell your parents you're trying out for it, and go buy a bull-barrel 10/22... Likewise the school may have a trap or skeet team or club. Hence the shotgun...

4. Ever consider muzzleloaders? Are you into history? If not, start getting into it...
Hmm...

1. Bayonet/combat knife. I've considered getting one. Any recommendations?

2. Baseball bat. Gave that to sister. She keeps it by her bed. At least I'm winning the next generation...

3. Rifle. Not a team, but there was a shooting club. Now defunct. Still can't keep guns on campus -- they had to rent a self-storage locker.

4. Muzzle-loaders, hmm. A flintlock pistol, now there's an idea -- and packs quite a bit of hitting power too, if I understand correctly. Do you know any good dealers for things of that nature?

Last edited by striderteen; February 4, 2002 at 10:56 PM.
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Old February 5, 2002, 06:22 AM   #15
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Couple of solutions NIF come to mind. One, join a dojo and start studying a hand to hand disipline. Good exercise and comes in handy. Tw, never overlook impact weapons. I used to shoot pins with a Atlanta cop who worked an attempted burglery where the little old lady "victim" used a hammer to defend herself. He fully intended to implement the Tueller rule with impact weapons after finding that shattered bone requires unbelieveable medical procedures to fix.

Have you considered joining a military unit?

Giz
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Old February 5, 2002, 08:49 AM   #16
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RE:

Big Knives: If your parents are reasonably intelligent, they will recognize that "Ninja DeathMaster Stabbomatic 2002" (with taktikal Black finish) as something other than an ordinary tool. So will the cops, if you ever have to use it, and that will poison their attitude towards you. Get yourself a good sized chef knife or butcher knife from one of the reputable kitchen cutlery makers. They make astoundingly good weapons as they are designed to cut flesh (i.e. meat) and connective tissue (e.g. when disjointing fowl). On top of everything else, you really CAN use them in the kitchen!

BB Guns: This is basically a dumb idea. Start adding field-expedient bayonets to the BB gun and we are entering into the realm of elaborately dumb ideas. Get one to learn the basics of shooting, if you like, but discard the idea of hot-rodding one into firearm velocities.

Your parents: deceiving them is another bad idea. As long as you live with them and/or they are supporting you, they are the ones who make the rules. When you are 18, move out, get a job, and buy all the guns you can afford. The gun you have to keep locked up and deeply concealed is not a quick-access gun in any case.

Recommendations: Buy yourself a good, big kitchen knife and a new baseball bat. Perhaps a nice Estwing rockpick, too. If you aren't already, learn some unarmed combat. Wait. You will be an adult on your own soon enough.
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Old February 5, 2002, 10:31 AM   #17
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deceiving them is another bad idea. As long as you live with them and/or they are supporting you, they are the ones who make the rules. When you are 18, move out, get a job, and buy all the guns you can afford. The gun you have to keep locked up and deeply concealed is not a quick-access gun in any case.
This is the reason I haven't gone ahead already. I respect my parents, even when I disagree with them, and they ARE paying most of my tuition.

Quote:
Big Knives: If your parents are reasonably intelligent, they will recognize that "Ninja DeathMaster Stabbomatic 2002" (with taktikal Black finish) as something other than an ordinary tool. So will the cops, if you ever have to use it, and that will poison their attitude towards you. Get yourself a good sized chef knife or butcher knife from one of the reputable kitchen cutlery makers. They make astoundingly good weapons as they are designed to cut flesh (i.e. meat) and connective tissue (e.g. when disjointing fowl). On top of everything else, you really CAN use them in the kitchen!
Heh heh, the "Ninja DeathMaster Stabbomatic 2002" is for my college room. I'll get something more mundane for home.
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Old February 5, 2002, 12:01 PM   #18
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I almost got kicked out of college because "they" found out I had a K-Bar in my dorm room. The only thing that saved me was that I was in ROTC, and they decided that I had a legitimate use for a knife--but I had to keep it off campus.

Muzzleloaders--again. Just because the ATF doesn't regard them as "guns", doesn't mean that the locals won't--you live on campus in CALIFORNIA! Why not just save everyone the trouble and move into Solidad?
Granted, your parents might think of them as pretty toys, but legally I'll bet you anything you care to name it's a "gun."

Get another bat for the dorm. Or a hiking staff--and join the local SCA and study quarterstaff.
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Old February 5, 2002, 01:47 PM   #19
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On most campus residences you can't even keep a knife. I thought you lived off campus. You probably will be expelled if you get caught with an air rifle too. Maybe you can get an ASP baton. I carry the 21" model and its pretty sweet. Its also more PC than a knife. For example- A guy that's drunk takes a swing at you and you cut his arm deeply -->dis eez bad. A guy that's drunk takes a swing at you and you whack his bicep so hard is arm doesn't work --> this is slighty better. If you can't even keep an ASP, get another bat. And if you decide to keep weapons- make sure your roommate doesn't do anything that would make the cops search your room, i.e. make sure he's not a drug user or drinks underage. BTW I just got back from class and I'm playing with my AR right now. (Maybe this will motivate you to move to a free state after you graduate)

Dan
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Old February 5, 2002, 06:51 PM   #20
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The only "weapon" I have with me on campus is my Leatherman Super Tool. I may get a rapier, as I'm on the school fencing team.
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Old February 5, 2002, 09:28 PM   #21
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A buddy of mine kept a shotgun on campus in a guitar case. Never had a problem and it was easily transported from car to dorm room.

IIRC, the daisy 880 I had as a kid would easily shoot through the steel barn roofs on the farm (a fact that got me in a lot of trouble). I imagine that it could easily go right through an eyeball and into a brain. In fact, haven't people been killed with BB guns?

Trouble is, follow-up shots. It takes a sec to insert a new pellet and pump the handle ten times.

Are you old enough to get a handgun? Get a mini revolver or derringer. Cost is as much as the $150 airgun mentioned above and you can have it in your jeans pocket without anyone knowing (as long as your jeans aren't too tight).
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Old February 5, 2002, 09:30 PM   #22
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Most Beeman air rifles when pumped to 10 have higher muzzle velocities then .22lr

Here's a site with info ...
http://www.straightshooters.com/beeman/brprod.html



Biggest drawback of the Beeman is it's going to set you back more then what a good shottie would cost.
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Old February 5, 2002, 09:55 PM   #23
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Let's see now. When I turned 18 the only problem I had was helping decide which bar in Athens, Greece I and my buddies were going to that night.

Before I graduated from HS I had owned a .22, 44 SBH, 6mm, 7mm Mag, 30-06, and a 12 guage. I'm sorry, I just cannot relate.
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Old February 5, 2002, 10:01 PM   #24
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Another option is to get a nice Airsoft shotgun (here's a few http://www.airsoftdynamics.com/GAS_shotguns.htm ).

Then you get a real one to match ... paint the end of the barrel orange and stick it in the closet
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Old February 5, 2002, 10:04 PM   #25
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880 has more power than you think

Theres currently a lawsuit against Daisy because of an accident with another of the powerline guns that left a kid severely handicapped ( BB got lodged in his brain)
I'm not about to say that its going to stop a crazed BG in his tracks but pumped up all the way it will do damage. I have one thats rated at 630 fps with a pellet and it will damn near shoot through a 2X4 at close range. Shot placement would just be very critical in a defensive situation.

When it comes to modifying it. Theres absolutely nothing you can do, or need to do to get more power from it. I just took one clear apart and brazed the barrel into the action because it ws popping loose (they're press fit, if the plastic cap in the muzzle gets damage it can easily fall apart) Breaking it down peice by peice was a real eye opener. They've got mostly plastic parts and are very simple. If you want more power, pump it up lots and lots of times. The valve is very simple, it won't regulate the amount of pressure. You can pump air into the chamber until the pressure inside is to much for the pump to overcome, then you just wear out the seal on the pump( its just a spngey peive of foam rubber soaked in oil). I'd be really surprised if one blew up on you ( I'm not recommending you pump it more than your supposed to all the time though) Theres ust a big spring and striker to open the valve on the chamber and that goes through little elbow into the back of the barrel. All the air is released with each shot.

If its all you can get, it will be better than nothing. Follow ups are a problem. And your not going to hit someone with it very many times before it breaks. If you want a bayonet- duct tape a small fixed blade to the barrel. The outside shroud on it is sheet metal and is very stiff. The actual barrel is a little steel tube inside thats about .25" OD. Its also pretty sturdy but theres not much holding in there. For the shotgun effect, load on BB normally and then drop 3 or 4 down the muzzle, they fit loose enough to roll clear down. it won't give a shotgun type spread though. Each one drops a little more than the one in front of it, but they stay in straight string in terms of left and right.
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