combat grip vs. single-hand grip with help - Page 2

stephen426 · January 26, 2019, 05:19 PM

I would have to agree with the people who have said to always get your proper grip with your shooting hand. Your support hand is just that, support. If you compromise your shooting hand grip, who knows what things you could affect? This includes trigger pull, recoil management, instinctive aim... As you have already mentioned, you never know if you need to remove your "weak hand" to do something else. You would have to readjust your grip for 1-handed shooting.

For your purposes, I would consider getting a laser mounted to your gun. I have the Crimson Trace Laser Guard Pro on my Glock 43. For longer range shots with lots of bystanders, it provides a bit of reassurance. Great trigger control is still critical, but I like having the laser on my gun. Not sure what your security plan is, but I would have a known security team with armed team members strategically positioned in the back corners for maximum coverage. I hope this is just being overly cautious and that no one ever has to ever draw their guns.

labnoti · February 5, 2019, 04:31 PM

Practice using a one-hand grip and make sure the bore-axis is aligned with your forearm. Practice drawing the handgun so that the bore is aligned with your forearm without having to re-grip the gun.

If you get a chance to use your support hand, bring it up and support your gun hand without changing your grip.

https://youtu.be/vmnLA2DuYJs

Some churches like the one I meet with have security teams. I have mixed feelings about that. I think I prefer that people provide for their own security rather than depending on someone else to do it and that no one presumes to provide me security when I haven't asked them to. But there are "widows and orphans" so to speak that could use the church's help. I say that to preface the suggestion to enlist others to help provide security for the church in the event of the kind of circumstances you described, but not without considering how a security team can go wrong.

stephen426 · February 6, 2019, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by labnoti

Some churches like the one I meet with have security teams. I have mixed feelings about that. I think I prefer that people provide for their own security rather than depending on someone else to do it and that no one presumes to provide me security when I haven't asked them to. But there are "widows and orphans" so to speak that could use the church's help. I say that to preface the suggestion to enlist others to help provide security for the church in the event of the kind of circumstances you described, but not without considering how a security team can go wrong.

I believe that something like security, especially armed security, should be well thought out and organized. This is especially true if there are multiple people carrying. Knowing who is on the security and armed will prevent mistaken identity and the accidental shooting of an armed responder. While I believe most church shootings were outsiders, I believe it is best that the members of the armed security team not be identified to the congregation. The congregation should be made aware that there is armed security and to respond only if being shot at. People may panic and shoot at anyone holding a gun.

I think it is also important to have some training and the security team needs to be vetted to show they are safe and competent. Armed security is a huge responsibility and you don't want someone who is unsafe. Since some churches are really big, it is important to know the layout extremely well and to know what are potential places for cover or concealment.

labnoti · February 6, 2019, 03:55 PM

One problem I see with non-uniformed security no matter how organized they are, is they do not have the force of law. For example, if they order someone to drop a gun, there is no legal requirement for compliance. If they point a gun at someone, they could be lawfully shot in return. If I'm mistaken about this, please explain why.

There are multiple people carrying. The gun culture is strong here and church is one of the places people always carry, even the ones who don't bother to carry elsewhere. There is no legal distinction between the incognito security team and armed individuals. People pointing guns or shooting at anyone who happens to have a gun is a problem regardless of whether they're on a team or not.

Another potential problem I see with armed church security is where there is an expectation that they will handle the security crisis and everyone else is expected to act like sheep. Don't get me wrong though. I'm not one that wants to get involved when I'm not involved. I do see the value of a security team, because if someone is getting shot on the other side of the room, I probably would not intervene. I would just leave. If I did intervene, the security team might just see another gunman that needs to be shot. I might see them and shoot any gunman that points a gun at me. I'd rather just leave or better yet, not be there in the first place.

I pity the megachurches and the other people that join themselves to become a big soft target like the people that go to sports arenas, racetracks and big concerts where they even disarm people at the gate (typically just metal detectors and cursory bag searches).

So I'm not opposed to security teams, I just think I'd rather not be anywhere one is needed. Like I wrote, the church where I've met for last few years has a team. They're incognito. I only know the leader. Like him a lot. Weekly meetings are about 250 people. Big events exceed 400. From a security perspective, I greatly prefer the kind of churches I previously attended where meetings were 25 to 40 people.

January 26, 2019, 05:19 PM	#26
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	I would have to agree with the people who have said to always get your proper grip with your shooting hand. Your support hand is just that, support. If you compromise your shooting hand grip, who knows what things you could affect? This includes trigger pull, recoil management, instinctive aim... As you have already mentioned, you never know if you need to remove your "weak hand" to do something else. You would have to readjust your grip for 1-handed shooting. For your purposes, I would consider getting a laser mounted to your gun. I have the Crimson Trace Laser Guard Pro on my Glock 43. For longer range shots with lots of bystanders, it provides a bit of reassurance. Great trigger control is still critical, but I like having the laser on my gun. Not sure what your security plan is, but I would have a known security team with armed team members strategically positioned in the back corners for maximum coverage. I hope this is just being overly cautious and that no one ever has to ever draw their guns. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

February 5, 2019, 04:31 PM	#27
labnoti Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2018 Posts: 252	Practice using a one-hand grip and make sure the bore-axis is aligned with your forearm. Practice drawing the handgun so that the bore is aligned with your forearm without having to re-grip the gun. If you get a chance to use your support hand, bring it up and support your gun hand without changing your grip. https://youtu.be/vmnLA2DuYJs Some churches like the one I meet with have security teams. I have mixed feelings about that. I think I prefer that people provide for their own security rather than depending on someone else to do it and that no one presumes to provide me security when I haven't asked them to. But there are "widows and orphans" so to speak that could use the church's help. I say that to preface the suggestion to enlist others to help provide security for the church in the event of the kind of circumstances you described, but not without considering how a security team can go wrong.

February 6, 2019, 03:55 PM	#29
labnoti Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2018 Posts: 252	One problem I see with non-uniformed security no matter how organized they are, is they do not have the force of law. For example, if they order someone to drop a gun, there is no legal requirement for compliance. If they point a gun at someone, they could be lawfully shot in return. If I'm mistaken about this, please explain why. There are multiple people carrying. The gun culture is strong here and church is one of the places people always carry, even the ones who don't bother to carry elsewhere. There is no legal distinction between the incognito security team and armed individuals. People pointing guns or shooting at anyone who happens to have a gun is a problem regardless of whether they're on a team or not. Another potential problem I see with armed church security is where there is an expectation that they will handle the security crisis and everyone else is expected to act like sheep. Don't get me wrong though. I'm not one that wants to get involved when I'm not involved. I do see the value of a security team, because if someone is getting shot on the other side of the room, I probably would not intervene. I would just leave. If I did intervene, the security team might just see another gunman that needs to be shot. I might see them and shoot any gunman that points a gun at me. I'd rather just leave or better yet, not be there in the first place. I pity the megachurches and the other people that join themselves to become a big soft target like the people that go to sports arenas, racetracks and big concerts where they even disarm people at the gate (typically just metal detectors and cursory bag searches). So I'm not opposed to security teams, I just think I'd rather not be anywhere one is needed. Like I wrote, the church where I've met for last few years has a team. They're incognito. I only know the leader. Like him a lot. Weekly meetings are about 250 people. Big events exceed 400. From a security perspective, I greatly prefer the kind of churches I previously attended where meetings were 25 to 40 people.