9mm load check

[jim8115]

Having Failure to Extract issues with a Sig P250, want to see if anyone has any input.

Load1 (Straight from the Hornady manual)
Hornady 115 Gr XTP 5.0 Gr W231 @ 1.050
Failure rate approx 1 in 20

Load 2 115 Gr plated 4.6 Gr W231 @ 1.110
Failure rate approx 1 in 4

Load 3 115 Gr LRN 4.6 Gr w231 @ 1.110
No failures, functions 100%

What am I doing wrong here

Thanks,
JIM

[D-Ric902]

What do you mean by "failure"
Fail to fire?
Extract?
Cycle?

[jim8115]

Failure to extract, the new round is jammed up against the old un-extracted case

[BigJimP]

There is probably something wrong with the extractor in your gun ...it may be broken, out of adjustment, dirty...etc ...

If your ammo was too slow too cycle the gun / the gun would be closed with a spent case in the chamber...but no round resting against the fired case. As you describe the issue ...the extactor is not engaging the fired case ...and the case is sticking in the chamber as the gun cycles...

I don't think you have an ammo problem ...I think you have an extractor problem, but ....to elimate a couple of things:

a. If you have a case gague / use it to check your rounds. If you don't have one ...remove the barrel from your gun ...drop the finished rounds into the chamber...do they seat properly by just dropping in ...and if you tip the barrel up ...do they drop out. If they stick going in or dropping out ...then you have a sizing problem, a bullet depth problem or a final sizing die problem..or some combination of all 3.

b. does your gun operate 100% with factory ammo ?? If yes, then go back to your manuals on your press ...and your load specs. Compare your loads in overall length to the factory ammo ...

[jim8115]

It was unreliable with factory ammo also........some worse than others

[BigJimP]

Then its definitely your gun, in my opinion.

At the very least - if you have the ability - strip it down to a bare frame...removing the extractor, etc....and clean and lube the gun...and test fire it again with factory ammo.

If that doesn't work take it to a good gunsmith ...or ideally a shop that has a Sig Armorer and let them take a look at it. Its probably an easy fix ...or its just dirty.

I have 5 Sigs ....( models 239's and 226's ) ...and none of them have had extraction issues ...and they're all well into having fired 10,000 rds or more ..( which isn't really a lot for most any sig ) ....some of them I bought used / most were new when I got them ....but Sig has a solid reputation for being very durable ( but at least once a year, I break all of my guns ...sigs, 1911's, revolvers, etc ...down to bare frames, for inspection and cleaning ...and I like doing it ). There are some very good DVD's on how to break down Sig's .... this is the one I like the best...

http://www.tjscustomgunworks.com/TJsigDVD/TJsigDVD.htm

its a good addition to your library ...if you're going to own and shoot Sig Sauers.

[Misssissippi Dave]

I am guessing you are the original owner of your P250. If you are and have registered it with Sig you are in luck. Contact customer service and tell them you are having extraction of fired cases problems. Do not mention reloaded ammo to them. The P250 has a life time warrenty for the original owner. They will send you a shipping lable and they will fix the problem. Any updates that need to be done will normally be done while it is there. Recent turn around time has been fairly good recently too. Be sure to include a note with the pistol explaining what the problem is if you send it in for repairs. That should make it easier for the gunsmith to find the problem.

The P250 shouldn't have any extraction problems with factory ammo. I have a couple of them and several of the kits. I have not had any extraction problems. If you look closely at the extractor, try to see if it is clean. It should have a good point on the extractor. If you apply pressure from the inside towards the outside it should move and when you let go it should return on its own. It does take a fair amount of pressure to move the extractor. It is spring loaded.

[valleyforge.1777]

The problem is the chamber area of the barrel, and a new barrel will fix this problem for you. You can probably get a new barrel from Top Gun Supply for a lot less money than Sig Sauer will charge you. When you have this kind of problem, everyone on the Internet will tell you two things: 1. The problem is your extractor (it is NOT the extractor, but the people telling you it is are making an honest, good guess, but alas they are incorrect); and 2. Send it to Sig and they will fix it for you (oh boy, let me try to remain calm and put this as politely and as factually as I can: Sig will clean the gun, lubricate the gun, test fire 50 rounds of high priced ammo, and then send it back to you with a note saying, "Gun cleaned and lubed; test fired, unable to reproduce the malfunction." And you will have accomplished nothing except spending money because Sig now charges for this non-service even if the gun is covered by warranty.)

How do I know all of this? Because I had the same problem with my 229. The chamber either was slightly out of spec when the gun shipped originally, or somewhere along the line it got dirty enough that my regular, usual, very thorough cleaning after every range trip did not get it clean enough. I read online of other people having similar frustrations and how they cured the problem with a replacement barrel, so I tried swapping back and forth between mine and a buddy's barrels and with various ammo and proved conclusively that his barrel worked all the time, every time with every type of ammo, and my barrel only worked some times with some ammo. I bought a new barrel and problem was solved.

Since that time, I have learned from others that when firing some ammo, there is a possibility of some gasses escaping the cartridge and crudding the chamber area in a way that does not really get cleaned out, even with rigorous cleaning methods. It was suggested to soak the barrel in solvent for a few days, then put a brass brush on a drill and use that to really clean out the chamber. You could try that before spending about $175 for a new barrel. Someone had suggested to me that I try to clean my chamber with a .45 brush (I have a 9 mm) and I did try that before buying a new barrel, and it did not work, but looking back I think it would have worked better if I'd have soaked the barrel in solvent for a while, and it would have worked better if I'd chucked a brush into a cordless drill to really get some cleaning ACTION on that chamber. I still have that barrel and may try it at some point just to see if I can get the chamber and barrel to function normally. I was having trouble with high-end law enforcement duty ammo, and it is pricey so I got to the point where it was cheaper to buy a new barrel than to continue to throw the ammo downrange at high cost to me to prove that the barrel still was not reliable enough for self-defense carry.

If the extractor was the problem, you'd have way more frequent FTE's than you describe and no ammo would work well consistently. You have a chamber problem, not an extractor problem. Respectfully, I doubt that a Sig armorer who has not yet encountered this situation in someone else's gun and solved it will be of any help to you.

[marklyftogt]

I use a EGW chamber checker when loading 9mm and 45 ACP.
If it doesnt fit the chamber checker it won't fit the gun. $20 and should be on every reloading bench IMO...or else you are loading too light of a charge.

[valleyforge.1777]

People always blame the reloads...

Well, the original poster said, "It was unreliable with factory ammo also........some worse than others"

So, I doubt this is caused by his reloads.

But on the Internet, people always blame the reloads...

[WESHOOT2]

Have another person, preferrably highly experienced, shoot your 250.
Use any and all ammo available.

Then send it back to SIG.


IME the SIG 250 in 9x19 is an excellent (albeit w/fer****z trigger) platform in 9x19.

[eldorendo]

I'd never recommend taking advice from a guy who uses 1000 words to say what could be said in 50.

[jim8115]

Gave it a thorough cleaning. No change from original test, but did have some different factory ammo. It seemed to fire American eagle 115 FMJ fine, though I only had 20 to try. It failed using remington 115 JHP's

[DeadCenter]

I typically load 4.8 - 5.0 gr 231 with 115 gr bullets and haven't had any issues at all in either my Sig 226 or Kahr PM9, so I think the load is fine and is definitely something with the pistol.

[valleyforge.1777]

Like I said, the problem is not a dirty or cruddy ejector. The problem is the chamber. Whatever. Just ignore me. Do whatever you want, but what I did to fix a similar problem was test the gun using someone else's barrel and when that apparently cured the problem, I bought a new barrel and never had any more trouble with ANY ammo. Anyway, whatever, the other guys posting here think I am totally dead wrong, so you probably should just ignore me. Good luck with your gun.

[jim8115]

ValleyForge,
I tend to agree with you. Is there any way to measure, or visually inspect the barrel to confirm?
It is my wifes gun, she wants rid of it anyway..........probably i will just trade it off.
The only reason we got it, was it was the only one we found that she could easily rack. She loves my XD40, buy cant rack the slide.

[iblong]

Not sure whats wrong with your pistol but that load and bullet should
function in a properly running pistol.

[jim8115]

"Not sure whats wrong with your pistol but that load and bullet should
function in a properly running pistol. "

Thats good to know .. I got rid of the Sig. I have no patience with a firearm that doesn't function properly. I will find her something else , so will eventually be reloading 9mm again.

Thanks for everyones help.

JIM