Stupid kids

[Hawes45]

of the legal system where you live, you may want to contact
the police and ask them what the limitations are as to you
defending your property, of course they will say to contact them
immediatly as they don't want violence or to have to come
back and arrest you at a later date because "it's the law".

As far as paintball/BB/pellet most states and municipalities
frown their use in anger as much as firearms I know here
in Michigan even the implication fo a weapon is an automatic
2yrs if convicted.

I am no lawyer but have read up a lot on law as it is interesting.

[SMMAssociates]

Had a case here in OH (where deadly force seems to be illegal unless the BG already shot you) that's interesting.

A woman was receiving threats from a man - ex-husband, I think - stalker issues, late night hangup phone calls, doorbell rings with nobody there, etc.

She was holding her daughter (toddler, I think) when the doorbell rang, and grabbed up a gun as she went to the door.

Turned out to be a Girl Scout (or something like that) selling cookies.

Children's Services took the child ("child endangerment"), and the PD took the gun. Took her too for a while if I remember correctly. "Brandishing"....

I don't recall the outcome, but I think it ended happily eventually.

Anybody else see what's wrong with this picture?

Regards,

[butch50]

As it is now, If I were to catch someone doing this, I would grab my mossy 500 and get them to stop, I guess and call the police. I don't even have any ammunition for the thing.

Bad idea. If you show a gun it better be loaded, because one of the "kids" might be armed with a loaded gun, and not knowing yours isn't, start shooting at you. Then what do you do? Yell out "Just Kidding!"

If you are going to show a weapon, it should be loaded and you should be ready able and willing to use it, otherwise don't show it or you may escalate into something you can not respond to.

You should check out your State laws, you have been given a lot of conflicting and contradictory advice and each State has different laws arrived at in a different manner. You could start at www.packing.org. That website has a laymans rundown on firearms laws for each State and if it doesn't answer your question will probably point you in the right direction to look further.

[rugerdude]

Well, thanks for the info and advice. Thankfully I doubt anything more will become of this, and the damage to my friend's car was almost nothing (he lost a mirror, not a big deal, but I thought it was much worse.) We may know who did it, but we don't have proof and once again, they really didn't hurt much so I guess we will just have our laughs about it unless this continues (which I doubt it will).

Thanks,
rugerdude

[Trip20]

Originally Posted by rugerdude

A friend of mine recently had his car flipped over......yes, he had his car flipped over in the middle of the night.

Originally Posted by rugerdude

and the damage to my friend's car was almost nothing (he lost a mirror, not a big deal, but I thought it was much worse.)

Please let us know where your friend had his aftermarket armored auto body and armored paint installed.

[rugerdude]

Well, the thing does not wigh that much. He had 2 baseball sized dents in the right door and he lost a mirror. They flipped it into his yard so the grass didn't exactly grind the paint off.

[xnavy]

If memory serves me correct, in texas this type of behavior at night is considered criminal mischief. I would have to check to see what the law allows when dealing with criminal mischief, but I think texas allows some sort of response when dealing with thugs at night on your property. I know there is a section dealing with criminal mischief but I just can't remember what it says.

[JohnKSa]

TX offers more latitude than most states in dealing with criminal mischief during the nighttime.

In TX, a property owner could shoot someone who was preparing to flip his car over if he:

"reasonably believes that force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's ... unlawful interference with the property AND reasonably believes ... deadly force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of ... criminal mischief during the nighttime AND he reasonably believes that ... the ... property cannot be protected ... by any other means OR the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the (property owner) or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury."

Carefully note the use of "force" and "deadly force" in the paragraph. They are NOT the same thing.

Basically, you must be convinced that force is necessary to stop the crime. You could probably convince yourself of this by shouting at them to stop and telling them that the police are coming. THEN you must be convinced that any force other than deadly force would be useless, OR that any force other than deadly force would expose you to substantial risk of serious bodily injury or death. That gets trickier.

[mrcalm7]

I still can't get over the fact that you were going to rack a gun for which you have no ammo? That's wild. You'd be better off pulling out an axe and screaming like a Banchee, sprinting towards them. That would probably disperse them. Sure, you wouldn't get but five or six, but who the hell is going to stick around with an axe murderer running at them?

[rugerdude]

"I still can't get over the fact that you were going to rack a gun for which you have no ammo? That's wild."

The idea was that these are just some stupid vandals and not hardened criminals, the shotguns presence and sound would be to ensure that they don't return, not to cause harm. This thread was started because i did not know if that was legal or not, I know (or at least have reason to believe) that it is not legal, and therfore I don't intend to do it, but thankfully I don't think I will have to.

I don't know about you, but (if i were said vandals) i'm not going to escalate a minor vandalism charge (from which i could easily escape) to murder.

[pt111gr]

You have to be very careful when dealing with something like this. It doesn't really matter what is "technically" legal to do. How many times do police officers illegally search a car? Thousands of times everyday across the country. How many times do people get convicted of crimes even though they are legal by a technicality. The main point is, if you rely on a technicality to save your butt in court you're taking a big gamble. The only time it's smart to use deadly force is if you're about to be attacked by someone who you can prove was going to cause you serious harm or death, or better yet shooting someone that is invading your house.

[3 weelin geezer]

I still believe that jails are nothing more than a sanctuary that house people away from angry law abiders who know the law is meant to protect the unlawful (you cant shoot them because......) until we 'forget' what they did and they can walk the streets again in safety so that they don't end up being famous on the 6 oclock news mysteriously ending up sleeping with the fish or becoming someones hood ornament or suffering an unexplicable gunshot from some neiborhood a mile away or.....

[mrcalm7]

The idea was that these are just some stupid vandals and not hardened criminals, the shotguns presence and sound would be to ensure that they don't return, not to cause harm.

Did dialing 911 ever enter into your thinking? You weren't in danger, so then you need to call LE to take charge. That's what they get paid to do.

[rugerdude]

Because by the time they get there, all they can do is take a report, the vandals won't even hear the sirens 'cause they will be gone. At that point I am wasting the officer's time. They aren't going to hunt for clues and find out who did it.

[CarbineCaleb]

I think a lot of this depends on the police, judge, jury... I knew a guy in Jersey who heard some noise out front - two guys were trying to steal his Harley, and were pushing it up a ramp into their pickup truck. Being a biker, he didn't take that lightly, and ran out front with a baseball bat and put them both in the hospital. He was the nicest guy, but you shouldn't be on the wrong side of him. I didn't ask him for all details, but I know he didn't go to jail and am not even sure if he was charged with a crime.

[X-RAY]

It's amazing how much variance there is re: use of deadly physical force from state to state. Article 35 N.Y. State Penal Code "Defense of Justification" states that you can legally use deadly physical force IN YOUR HOME when you REASONABLY believe it is necessary to prevent or stop a burglary,arson,or other violent crime.
Turning over a car with no occupants is vandalism at best.

[JohnKSa]

Just posting the info for reference. It's not likely you'd find anyone with legal experience recommending that you pop someone to prevent vandalism--not even in TX.

There's even one school of thought that says if an item is insured, that it is already "protected by other means" which would remove the legal justification for use of deadly force.

What it really comes down to in TX is that you have the right to go out, armed, and tell them to stop, knowing full well that if they attack, you have every right to shoot. In essence the law gives you the right to initiate a confrontation to protect your property while still preserving the right to self-defense should the need arise.

In many areas, if you initiate the confrontation, your right to self-defense may be compromised.

[butch50]

don't know about you, but (if i were said vandals) i'm not going to escalate a minor vandalism charge (from which i could easily escape) to murder.

That is an assumption that could turn out fatal, for you.

[Bravo25]

Did dialing 911 ever enter into your thinking? You weren't in danger, so then you need to call LE to take charge. That's what they get paid to do.

Which planet was that again? The SCOTUS has already ruled the LEO community is not responsible, or liable for the protection of you, your family, or your property. What part of that isn't getting through?

[JuniorCommando]

Break out a can of the hottest mace on the market for those little punks. No need to get yourself into all the legal tangles if you can avoid it. Plus its easier to sue someone if they are still alive :P

and/or

1) One hand on the cell one hand on your holstered gun. Don't brandish it.
2) If your cellphone has a picture option use it. Then dial 911 right in front of his face and report that mofo if he tries to rush you light him up. Make sure you sound scared for your life, tell the operator something along the lines that this guy is going berserk. If the guy suddenly takes his attention away from your property onto you, yell "get away from me or I'll shoot" on the phone. I think at this point you got all the legal evidence you need to cap this fool.

Happy hunting.

[ATW525]

I'm no lawyer, but the way I understand NH law is that physical force, but not deadly force may be used to protect property. However, if your car was parked in your driveway, you reasonably believed they were trying to commit felony criminal mischief and you reasonably believed they were likely to use unlawful force against you in the commission of that felony, then deadly force may be used.

[3 weelin geezer]

artsmom
Senior Member



That being said, no property is really worth the price of a human life

_________________________________

Then why do they have armed guards at the us mint?

[Bravo25]

That being said, no property is really worth the price of a human life

Well there it is... That is exactly the concept the criminals need to grasp, not the position that should be forced upon the people. The fact that we have adopted this type of philosophy, and given over to the criminals in the first place is the very reason the problem continues to worsen.

Ever hear of what used to happen to cattle rustlers, and horse thiefs? Those crimes were far from rampant because of the consequences.

[longbaugh]

A running chainsaw does wonders for getting people to leave. What? I just wanted to trim this tree real quick before I forgot about it. And I was in such a hurry that I was running and I kinda stumbled and "lundged" at them. Sorry about that arm.