"Waterproof" reloads?

[Marco Califo]

Shotgun shells: I loaded hot dove loads and some steel shot in 12 g hulls and dripped melted wax on the crimped end, waited, one second, and covered with my thumb and spun. All of those went off. I was hunting on waterfowl wetlands, and I do know some got wet. But I did not try storing under water.
Once I left a 50 Cal ammo can, with a good gasket, full of factory steel shot loads, in the exposed bed of a pickup truck, one season to the next, or maybe two. I thought the sealed ammo can, under something, but rained on, would have kept them good. But the reddish orange rust powder covered everything inside the can. The rust was from the steel shot. Next stop was the range round file, of once-live ammunition.

[Don Fischer]

Year's ago Herter's used to sell what they called primer sealant, I got a jar one time and couldn't figure out why. I think if your loading case's with loose primer pocket's it might be a good idea but I also found fingernail polish does the same thing. But I don'e fool with that anymore. I don't hunt water foul and I don't hunt in the rain. I have to say I do wax the crimp on my shot shells though. Same as the guy above. Works really well I think though I've never got one wet!

[F. Guffey]

I don't hunt water foul and I don't hunt in the rain.

Hunting in the rain: Leaky ammo; I pull ammo apart meaning I pull the bullets and dump the powder etc.. Again, I pull down 450+ of belted ammo, 85% would have fired and 'not a problem,' I did not load the rounds. The 85% that would fire were sealed cases, The 15% that had corrosion around and between the bullet and neck were cases that did not seal.

If I was going to recreate a Nevada Smith scene in The Atchafalaya Basin I would first test the ammo for leaks. I have 4 pressurized paint pots, I understand; no one understands but if I place my loaded ammo in the pressure pots with a vacuum for test the ammo will get heavier if the rounds takes on water.

Going the other way? Same thing; if I apply a pressure on the ammo in the post with water the high pressure will force water into the case if there is a leak.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

I know: "How does he do that?". I weight the ammo before testing and again after testing.

Placing a vacuum on the ammo creates a vacuum inside the case if the case is leaking, dropping the vacuum on the pot allows the vacuum to pull water into the case through the leak.

I am the fan of finding the leak before I jump in, think about it; you pull the trigger and there is no bang. When that happens you have to start loading your ammo without powder/primers and mixing the duds with functional ammo, primers etc. You want to avoid 'the flinch' when the ammo does not go bang.

F. Guffey

[hounddawg]

Not sure why the OP is worried. Back when I hunted I have spent many a wet day in the woods. Ask any soldier who was in Vietnam about monsoon season. Anyone ever washed a few pistol bullets in your pants ? We are not talking about placing bullets in a vacuum then dropping them in a 100 foot deep tank of water for a week. Maybe a wet pocket or getting dropped in a puddle for a second or two at worst at atmospheric pressure.

I think some of yall just love to over complicate but if it is a real concern I can think of 100 ways to do it anything from candle wax to fingernail polish. A thinned layer of any petroleum or alcohol based paint at the junction of the bullet and case mouth and around the the primer / primer cup seam will do it. Anything from fingernail polish to poly urethane.

[F. Guffey]

Waterproof" reloads?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just curious if anyone has made any reloads that would be considered waterproof or water resistant at least. If so did you test them?

Yes I did. I have also pulled down thousands of rounds; most of the rounds I have pulled down that leaked were reloads.

F. Guffey

[mkl]

planning on an elk hunt in a couple years and want to have as many possible problems ironed out ahead of time.

I'd just vacuum seal four or five cartridges in one of the 4-mil vacuum sealing bags. Make up as many bags as you may need. Cut a bag open and load rifle on the day of the hunt. Those bags are water proof and should keep your ammo dry almost forever as long as the seal is not broken.

[LE-28]

I'd just vacuum seal four or five cartridges in one of the 4-mil vacuum sealing bags. Make up as many bags as you may need. Cut a bag open and load rifle on the day of the hunt. Those bags are water proof and should keep your ammo dry almost forever as long as the seal is not broken.

That's the safest way I can think of.


If you want to really test the water resistance in your ammo just drop a warm round in a cold water (or a creek), the cold water will shrink the air inside the case and cause a mild vacuum inside the case. It sucks the water in from the vacuum. In shallow water it is not a pressure thing.

Copper conducts heat or loss of it very quickly.

If cases and water both were the same temp it would be a lot easier to keep them dry and water probably wouldn't enter, but in real life when does that happen. It's usually warm ammo from your pocket or truck in a cold crick or freezing cold rain that causes the trouble for hunters.

[hounddawg]

why not just drop a few rounds into a ziplock freezer bag ? However if you are planning on swimming across rivers then I would go with something heavy duty

https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p...hoCxzIQAvD_BwE

Also condoms work for sealing muzzles, at least they do in the movies. Can't say I ever seen anyone walking around in real life with one on their gun

[Unclenick]

Mkl,

The vacuum seal trick, to be safe, has to be applied just before the hunt. If you leave the rounds vacuum sealed for any length of time, the moisture in the powder can gradually work its way out of the powder and into the bag as water vapor. Norma's manual shows that taking too much water out of powder can increase its burn rate to raise pressure as much as about 12%. Still below proof, so it shouldn't damage the gun other than maybe causing some primers to pierce, but you don't want to go on the hunt only to find out the hard way that POI has shifted or you accuracy sweet spot is no longer there.

The Norma manual's description of loaded cartridges having their powder equilibrate with the outside relative humidity over a period of about a year is what convinced me that using a desiccant for storing loaded rounds was a bad thing. 50% RH environment is about right for them for long life at the intended performance level.

[hounddawg]

Interesting concept Uncle Nick. I had no idea of how much of a vacume those things pulled but found out some of the higher end ones can get down to about 28 inches. That would put the boiling point of water at about body temp.

Another consideration would be once the vacuum was released air will find it's way back into the case and if it's a rainy day....

Better a baggie and maybe some lip balm smeared around the case mouth and flashhole

[F. Guffey]

Interesting concept Uncle Nick. I had no idea of how much of a vacume those things pulled but found out some of the higher end ones can get down to about 28 inches. That would put the boiling point of water at about body temp.

Body temperature? There is a chart that claims 28" of vacuum will boil water at or near 27 degrees below '0'.

And then there is a silly argument about absolute 'ZERO' and boiling water at a temperature of zero. The point: It is not possible to pull a 30 " vacuum with the recovery systems and vacuum pumps I have.

When I want a dry system I use nitrogen.

F. Guffey

[hounddawg]

Body temperature? There is a chart that claims 28" of vacuum will boil water at or near 27 degrees below '0'.

whatever chart you saw was either wrong or you did nor read it correctly.

27.75 inches of vacuum = 104 F flash point

https://www.engineersedge.com/h2o_boil_pressure.htm

and I seriously doubt any vacuum sealer you buy at walmart can get anywhere close to that. For refrigeration systems a vacuum of 500 to 1000 microns is the norm before charging. Dry nitrogen for storing your ammo ? Talk about overkill you prepping for a nuclear war or is there some kind of contest for seeing who can be the most anal. A 2 cent ziplock bag will accomplish the same purpose for a elk hunt

[Dufus]

I don't think anything is truly waterproof. Even water proof boots get soaked eventually.

We used some rather large vacuum pumps for dehydrating high voltage electrical equipment. We could pull down to 3 microns with a properly sealed compartment and evacuate moisture mostly by circulating hot dielectric mineral oil at 180-220 degrees F.

The results were usually a -30 to -45 degree dewpoint. Even at that, given time, the dewpoint would gradually rise.

A young friend wanted to go hunting maybe three years ago and needed to borrow a rifle and some ammunition. He is young enough to be a son (and I consider him as such as he has not been in contact with his dad for prolly 35 years).

I drug out a very capable rifle out of the safe and found some ammunition that I had loaded back in 1976. The ammo was almost 40 years old and it was all I had at the time. He ask if the rifle needed to be sighted and I told him that it was dead on the last time I shot it.

He killed 2 deer and a turkey to feed him and his Mom for a few months.

I asked him about the rifle and he stated it was dead on. The ammo was stored indoors all that time and had no need to be "waterproofed".

I loaded two boxes of fresh ammo for him shortly after he left on his hunting trip. He used it the next year.

[hounddawg]

bump...not sure what makes these more waterproof than the ones you get in a supermarket but

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...-new?a=2151572

[jmorris]

I don't think anything is truly waterproof.

Most anything can be done but one engineer I knew would always say “you can seal water out, you can only seal it in.”

[Unclenick]

Waterproof in this context just means able to handle rain and brief submersion, as when crossing a stream.

Most people don't realize that all plastics and nail polish and other resins have finite water vapor permeation rates. They can slow water down, but can't stop it 100%.

[weaselfire]

Originally Posted by McDowell300

Just curious if anyone has made any reloads that would be considered waterproof or water resistant at least. If so did you test them? Just curious planning on an elk hunt in a couple years and want to have as many possible problems ironed out ahead of time.
Thanks

Is it an underwater elk hunt?

Jeff

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[F. Guffey]

Again: I pulled 450 magnum loads down; the rounds were 7MM Remington Mag and 257 Weatherby. 80% would have fired, the 20% that would not have fired would have fired on the day they were loaded. All of the ammo was loaded in 1971 and 1972. No one tested for leaky necks and primers in the old days.

1971 and 72? With no leaks the ammo went close to 42 +/- a few years. And then there is ammo that I have shot that was loaded between 1937 and 1941.

F. Guffey

[Tuzo]

Retrieved a few boxes of surplus military 7.62x54R manufactured in the former soviet union that were submerged by hurricane Sandy flooding. This happened in my late brother's home in coastal New Jersey.

Fired the ammunition with a Mosin-Nagant and this happened: some fired; some did not; and one hang fire after about 20 seconds. Stopped shooting after about 15 rounds. Pulled the remaining bullets with dry powder pouring from some and damp clumpy mush from the remainder.

Bottom line: sealed rounds may leak even if they are robustly military.

[gwpercle]

Originally Posted by Nick_C_S

Thinned with what? Acetone? Lacquer thinner?

Fingernail polish is lacquer , thin with fingernail polish remover, lacquer thinner or acetone. Acetone is fast evaporating.
We would use clear polish , thinned with lacquer thinner 50/50 to nearly water consistency . You don't want a thick coat interfering with chambering....
A drop on the primer and a drop on the neck/case joint , spin between the fingers to evenly coat .
Carried in the rain on a few hunting trips and they all fired .
Gary

[Unclenick]

Tuzo,

A cautionary tale for those unhappy about rust.

What you describe is also sounds like exactly what you see when the powder has begun to deteriorate, whether water is involved or not. I had some .308 surplus ammo from the former Eastern Bloc that had some good, some weak, some failure to fire. Pulled it down. The stick powder in them was dry in some, clumped and sort wet or oily looking and had to be dug out with a probe. In a few instances, I identified verdigris on necks over holes that had corroded through. That was due to nitric acid radicals evolved off the powder as gas. Indeed, one side effect of shooting the stuff in my M1A was that about a month later I looked at the bore and discovered a coating of fine red rust, same as nitric acid fumes induce on steel being rust blued by the old steam cabinet method.

Anyway, if you take some of the clumpy powder and put it into some water in a shot glass and if you get a reddish-brown tint to the water, you have breakdown occurring. If you don't, then it's probably just wet, though if you happen to have a pH meter to test the water, that would tell you better. Just put both some of the dry powder and some of the clumping powder into water to see the difference. The pH gets pretty low even with small quantities of nitric acid.

The point of all this is, I want to advise anyone who reads this and has a similar sounding experience shooting ammunition like this to treat the bore of their rifle as they would a gun fired with corrosive primers. Use a bore cleaner that is water-based and has a corrosion inhibitor in it. Bore Tech's Eliminator or their C4 carbon remover are two I would suggest if you think the bore may have been exposed to powder in this kind of conditions.


Back on the topic of rolling water-proof loads: though ancient technology, the bullet sealant used by the military for decades was asphaltum (pitch) dissolved in mineral spirits. You can buy this today as liquid asphaltum from art and printing supply stores as an etch resist for engraving plates. The military cartridges use this as a sort of bullet glue, painting it inside case necks and letting it dry before seating the bullet. If you've pulled military ammo down, you've seen it. The case necks were sized large (bullet slip fit) to make room for it. If you pull down military match ammunition (no crimp) and use mineral spirits to dissolve the asphaltum off the bullet and the inside of the case neck, you find you can push the bullet in with your fingers.