Accurizing my Mosin

[SigP6Carry]

I finally started on my project of accurizing my 1942 Izzy 91/30. It already fires a potential 1.5" at 100yards using Wolf 146gr ammo, so I'm working on getting it tighter in order to convert into a PU sniper rifle.

MY rifling is strong and somewhat bright (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=401791) and the gun is in EXCELLENT condition. I'm not looking to bubba the gun or replace any of the integral parts (like the $80 trigger job I've heard about). I'm currently floating the barrel (sanding the channel on the stock) and play on ordering a trigger return spring. I'll also be shimming the trigger sear spring and I might cork the barrel (if that really makes a difference. I'm hoping floating it will do the trick). I'm also planning on getting a wolf upgraded striker pin to reduce lock-up. Hopefully all of these combined will result is a historically accurate looking Mosin which shoots like the dickens.

Any other tips and tricks for these old mules out there?

[MagnumWill]

One thing I did with mine is bend the trigger spring with a big screwdriver (CAREFULLY!). I have a trigger pull gauge with me, and I kept tweaking until the trigger pull hovered around 2 pounds. It creeps just a hair, but it's got a nice crisp break. I also freefloated the barrel like people said. Put a P/U scope on it, and beyond that, that's about it. I know that it can shoot minute-of-clay-pigeon offhand at 100 yards so far.

[the rifleer]

Honestly, 1.5'' is pretty damn good for a mosin nagant. Most will not shoot that well. i have seen some do under 1'' with hand loads, but i really think you are trying to get too much out of a $100 rifle.

Its worth a try and i think you are on the right track, but it is going to get to the point where your shots will not get any better no matter what you do or what ammo you shoot out of it.

i wish you luck and let us know if you get under 1''.

[SigP6Carry]

I actually just shimmed my trigger with a couple of peices of an Old Style can: much improvement on the trigger pull. It breaks cleaner.

[30cal_Fun]

I did a DIY trigger job on the trigger of my 1943 Izhevsk, it makes a BIG difference. I included the pictures I used as reference.

I did two things:
1: Polish ALL contact areas. in the pictures the areas that I polished are red. I also polished the part where the cocking piece makes contact with the trigger spring.
2: Shim where the trigger spring pushes against the trigger and the spring itself. the places I shimmed are blue (some areas I both polished and shimmed just to be sure) I just cut up a can.

and the results are threefold:
1: Trigger pull is smoothened.
2: Trigger pull is shortened.
3: Trigger pull is lightened.

I am in the process of accurizing my Mosin Nagant too, while trying to maintain as much of the original look as I can. so any help any of you can offer me, it would be greatly appreciated!

Here is the link to my rifle: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...osin+nagant+pu

I an planning to do one or two of the following things;
1: Refinishing the stock, I want to approach the original sheccal finish as much as possible here, any tips on what to use?!?
2: Bed the rifle, I'm still deciding between two options: bed the ENTIRE rifle OR bed the action and free float the barrel channel, which option would give the best results.

If anyone has any tips for me on what to do, I would be very grateful.

I saw your signature Thomme, you not alone, I'm a liberal gun nut too...

Louis

[benogil]

Many people have this question on the 91/30's - best you can do is to pillar bed ( you can buy pillars at Rock Solid Industries ), bed ( look at boxo'truth to see how ), sometimes the Russians used just a bit of cloth under the barrel at the front bands to get more accuracy. Floating the barrel can also work.

[SigP6Carry]

I've already floated my barrel and performed a shim job on my sear spring. I ordered a trigger return spring and next I'll order a Wolf 30lb firing pin spring. As for the idea of shaving and reforming the sear: I love it! If I had a dremel, I'd do it right away. But, I don't have a dremel. With two shims made from a beer can under the sear spring, I've found I've reduced creep in the trigger and that it breaks much cleaner than before. The weight seems about the same, but it's not quite as mushy.

I've also looked into ordering M24 parts to swap into mine: like an M24 trigger and sear, maybe. Who knows?! We'll see how I do with this thing. I know it seems ridiculous to do this to an $80 rifle. But it's a ridiculous learning experience for a newbie to the gun customizing scene and hopefully in a couple years I'll have a sweet PU Sniper copy that could double as a deer rifle.

The concept of bedding is something that I'm really new to. I understand floating the barrel, but I've never known exactly what bedding it. I assumed it was a different way of floating a barrel.

Oh, and 30_cal, that PU you showed off in January was part of what inspired me to tune up and accurize my mosin. You've got a beautiful bunch of Mosins.

edit: ok, I checked out bedding and such. The RSI Pillar Bed? YES! That will be going into my Mosin! Wow, that's a dirt cheap price for an awesome product. Love it! Thanks, Benogil!

Edit, again: I'm wondering if reducing lot up time by a few milliseconds would really be worth increasing the stubbornness of my bolt after all the work I did to get it to cycle smoothly... Maybe, once I have the bent bolt handle, I'll increase the spring weight, as the bent bolt will help move a stubborn bolt...

1.5MOA with Wolf FMJ, I'd imagine that once I smooth out the gun and start handloading and find the perfect load for my gun: I'll have a sub MAO Mosin... I'm pretty excited about this thing.

edit again, sorry:
I was wondering, actually... with a 1942 Izzy, which scope setup would be the most accurate to have installed on the rifle? The PEM or PU? And if PEM, should I do the receiver mounted rail or the side mount? I'm a little hazy on the chronology of the scopes and mounts on the Mosins. I know the PE predates WWII, while the PEM found use (I believe Vasili (mispelt?) used a PEM side mounted on his Mosin, not the PU that Jude Law uses in the movie) in the war and was later replaced by the PU, which was based on the SVT scope, correct? Or am I mixing things up?

[30cal_Fun]

Stop that Thomme, your flattering me to much, I only have ONE Mosin as for now

The purpose of bedding is to make the contact area between the receiver and the stock as large as possible.
most rifles only make contact with the stock at the two screw holes, far from optimal. when a rifle is fired, recoil forces are exerted through the receiver and absorbed into the stock. if the rifle only makes contact at a few points, all those forces make it go everywhere inside the stock. you won't get consistent harmonics in your rifle, thus accuracy suffers greatly. (shot to shot) consistency = accuracy.
If you bed your rifle, your receiver has a very large surface area. when the rifle recoils, all the forces that are directed through the receiver meet a very large contact area to direct the forces into the stock. thus the stock is able to absorb the forces of recoil much better. now, every time you fire your rifle, the recoil gets absorbed the same way over and over again with each shot = consistent shots. at the same time, because the receiver is bedded, it doesn't have any gaps in the stock to which it can move, the receiver will sit solidly in it's stock. thus also improving consistency.
If your rifle is bedded, shot to shot consistency will be much improved, thus it will give your rifle greater accuracy potential.
Bedding is sometimes also referred to as Skim bedding, because you put a thin layer of bedding compound between the stock and receiver.

pillar bedding works roughly the same way. because the pillars cannot be compressed as much as wood, once you torch it down to a specific pressure, it will stay that way and wont be influenced by weather changes that make the wood expand en contract.

normally the barrel is free floated.
when a bullet passes through the barrel, its vibrates harmonically. any interference with that vibration such as a stock pressing against the barrel, will interrupt these vibration. the vibrations will be slightly different with each shot, making each shot it non consistent with the previous. and remember, consistency is what you want. if you free float the barrel, there is nothing interfering with the vibrations of the barrel, making each shot as consistent with the other as much as possible. again it will give your rifle greater accuracy potential.

The wooden stock expanding en contracting is actually the worst enemy of an accurate rifle. this is solved by bedding or/and pillar bedding and free floating the barrel because the contact area will stay the same.


however, hunting rifles (or surplus rifles for this matter) often have thin barrels, and bedding the entire barrel will actually improve accuracy because the thin barrel is supported throughout the length it makes contact with the stock. this is because thin barrels (compared to bull barrels in match rifles) get so much vibrations from each shot, that it becomes bad for it's shot to shot consistency.
This is why people talk about "corking" your Mosin or wrapping a cloth around your barrel, so that the stock puts constant pressure on the barrel, making each shot a bit more consistent. (I knew about it Benogil, and I also have the Box 'O Truth under my favorites )

You will get the best accuracy in a rifle if you:
1: Pillar bed the entire receiver
2: Skim bed the entire receiver
3: Free float the barrel


However, I'm going to bed the entire rifle including the barrel channel. this is because of the handguard. if I would remove the material necessary to free float the entire barrel, I am not confident it would leave enough material of the handguard and front of the stock. I think the wood would become to thin to act as a functional stock front end and handguard.
I would like to know if anyone is going to free float the barrel (that's why I left this issue open in my previous post), but to me that is something to be reserved for a "sporterized" rifle where most remove all the front wood of the stock. by all means, it's your rifle and you can do with it what you want.
Still, later on I can still choose to free float the barrel If I want to, but this is the way I'm taking.


Now about the lock up time, the time it takes IS only a few milliseconds, so shortening that time will without a doubt improve accuracy because you reduce the time the rifle is able to move between when you pull the trigger and the primer in the cartridge igniting.
However, the question was if it would improve your accuracy significantly. My answer: no, there are a lot more things that will improve your accuracy potential FAR MORE, like bedding, free floating etc.

About the scope setup:
they both have about the same magnification, and will be equally accurate. I would go for the PU but that is purely because of aesthetics and availability. Accumounts: (http://www.accumounts.com/) makes very good reproductions of both, but they are expensive. a lot of companies make PU-reproductions, do some googling. take the one you feel comfortable with and like the best.

I hope this answers all your questions, if you have any more, BRING IT ON
I love answering all.

All the best with your project and good luck!

Louis

[SigP6Carry]

the whole "slipping paper under the barrel" trick? All the way from receiver to the end of the handguard. I think I sufficiently floated my barrel. When I finally get around to testing it again, I'll leave the top handguard off to prevent that from interfering. I think my best bet after floating the barrel will be trigger work. And there after, I'll reduce lock-up with the wolf spring and then pillar bed the receiver. Then will come the bent bolt, then the scope mount and finally the scope.

[30cal_Fun]

sounds like a good plan Thomme,

I think that with time passing and improvements being made, your rifle will be very accurate if you already get 1,5 MOA. I think 1MOA would be a realistic goal.

[SigP6Carry]

Ok, so I took the number of trigger shims up to about 6 layers of beer can. Then I installed the "trigger return spring" from BuyMilSurp backwards (because I couldn't stand the creep it created installed the "right way") so that it pushes the trigger backwards onto the sear, instead of forwards. Now the trigger pull is down to around 6-7 pounds with a fairly clean break. It's got about 2mm of mush before breaking, but it's a great improvement over the stock trigger. If I had a dremel, I'd definitely modify the sear and polish the trigger to make the break even cleaner. At this point, my Mosin is really shaping up nicely! In a bit, that Wolf 30lbs spring and pillar bedding will be in and I'll get it to the range to bench and hopefully shoot a sub 1".

[KLRANGL]

Not to short change TFL, but surplusrifleforum.com has a forum dedicated to accurizing mosins:
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=186

here is an interesting idea for the trigger:
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...?f=186&t=75630

[SigP6Carry]

I know, I just hate belonging to a lot of different forums, so I scoped out the different gun forums before choosing this one.

But, yeah, I did install one of those springs. I didn't like it. I felt it made the trigger pull mushy. So I installed it backwards and eliminated the "two stage trigger." Now, my trigger doesn't have that dead gap that I hated.

[MagnumWill]

Polish ALL contact areas.

+1

I just did that with both of my mosins, and both triggers are MUCH smoother. That got rid of the "creep" i was feeling on the sniper. The trigger breaks super clean at around 36 oz. I can't wait to go try it out now...

[SigP6Carry]

Is there a good method of polishing without a power tool? Any tips or tricks?

[30cal_Fun]

Is there a good method of polishing without a power tool? Any tips or tricks?

I started with a small, VERY FINE hand file. I used it to even out the rough spots and smooth out any grinding marks left from the manufacturing on the contact areas.
Then I used a piece of 600 gritt sandpaper backed up by the small hand file.
I cut out a small piece of it about 1x2 inch and wrapped it around the file. That way, you have a stable platform. When part of the sandpaper is used up, just wrap it with another part on top, that way, a piece of 1x2 inch will get you a long way.
I only used two 1x2 inch piece of 600 gritt and after that I used one piece of 1000gritt. I got a mirror finish on all the contact areas.
It's only about 30 minutes of work, maybe a bit more, but my trigger is a lot smoother.

Louis

[SigP6Carry]

Ah, I always thought that I needed a dremel. Looks like I've got a project for this weekend. Thanks!

[30cal_Fun]

You're welcome.
I don't even have a dremel tool at home, but there is almost nothing a little elbow grease can't fix.

Good luck with your project, Louis

[SigP6Carry]

Well, I got it out for the first time in a few months, and apparently a winter of handgun and trap shooting has cost me my ability to shoot a rifle well. Here's my group today:

at 100 yards from a bench, but not with all the fancy "bench" stands to really test it out. That high flier at the top right was actually a flier from the target to the right of this one. I used Brown Bear 175gr for this group. The Wolf ammo stuck up my bolt really badly and seemed to hit high and a touch erratically. With the pillar bedding and wolf spring that I'm planning to install, it should shoot much better than this "2 inch group with a high flier" than I should this time.
video, too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jTwE8cIZEc
edit: I believe the third shot in the video is that high flier in the group in the middle. And, yes, I am shooting without the top handguard, I forgot about that and gave myself a nasty burn.

Also, yes, I was shooting at crazy small targets at a huge distance. It took me about 20-30 rounds to figure out what I was even shooting at!

Edit again: just cleaned the gun. Is there a cleaner store-bought 7.62x54r round? It took me ALL of my patches I had left (about 12) to clean the barrel tonight.

[MagnumWill]

Some of the stores I shop at generally sell the Winchester white box, 180gr soft points. I bet you could find a little more accurate round, but they're super clean (ESPECIALLY compared to the bulgarian heavy ball I shoot through them sometimes).

[SigP6Carry]

I actually haven't found anything but Wolf and Brown Bear in stores around me. I think the WWB softpoint would be nice. I'll keep my eye out for those.