what does everyone use in there HD shotgun?

[Lee Lapin]

I have a much greater chance of NOT killing somebody, especially if my first shot is towards the extremities...

Problem is, you also have a greater chance of not STOPPING somebody. And there's no guarantee you'll have a chance to get off subsequent shots in a defensive situation.

Please read the report at http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/...n/herdson.html ... that's the Medical Journal of Australia, if you're worried about following unknown links. The article is "Shotgun suicide with a difference" by Peter B. Herdson, if you want to look it up on your own.

lpl

[.45 COLT]

Interesting point. I assume you are a big bore, heavy bullet deep penetration guy who thinks that the 9mm is too small and doesn't penetrate enough, right? Yet you-- I think-- are suggesting that birdshot which penetrates about half as much as a 22 short is adequate?

No, no big proponent of Birdshot. Right now I have one gun loaded with Dixie Tri-Ball loads, a couple of others with 00 Buckshot. I just don't like those "Smart and Experienced Guys". They're also the ones who tried to replace my M14 with an M16.

The rest of my resume frankly isn't for public consumption.

Nor is mine, but I definitely wouldn't cite Fackler as an expert. Nice guy, wrongheaded. (No, no big fan of Evan Marshall either).

DC

[Old Grump]

I am the original bigger is better guy when it comes to guns. Carried a 03 Springfield in boot, learned to really shoot with a 45 and a M1, seen the problems with the M14 corrected then replaced by a, never mind, you can guess what I think of McNamara. I seen the problems with the M16 and I still believe a varmint round should be used for varmints.

With the bigger is better thing I prefer my 32 Win spcl over my 30-30 just because of the power factor. I retired my 357 in as my primary hunting gun for a 44 mag because of the power factor. I have a 300 Wby but use a 308 because it makes the same size hole, shoots the same 180 gr bullet and no shot in my area will be more than 200 yards and most around the 60 yard mark give or take 20 yards. 308 is big enough and so is the 30-30 and dead deer is dead deer. 'But' and this is a big 'but' those shots are taken outdoors with thousands of acres of trees or miles of desert and mountains on the other side of the animal depending on if I am in Wisconsin or New Mexico.

My choice for my HD load is not because I think the #4 shot is the ultimate choice but I know my house, I know who lives in my house and where they are, I know if I ever have to take on an intruder it will most likely be at 10' or less and never more than 24'. I have a legally blind sister and a crippled brother and they do not need to be collateral damage and will not be if I can do anything about it. #4 shot is my answer, 2 3/4" shells express load of Hevi shot, can't match a slug but its going to have to do.

[killoften]

Finally! I believe I can post again. It seems Grump calmed down enough... And for the record I didnt nessarily apreciate being alluded to, a "keyboard commando" You seem to have said some questionable personal things in regards to a few poeple on this post. Kmar40 got it especially bad. If it bothers you so much just don't click on this topic.

"can't match a slug but its going to have to do."--Old Grump

Yes! Now we're getting somewhere. It is toataly cool given YOUR situation to make that HD ammo choice. All I EVER was trying to get across is that "pound for pound" slugs are a more sure threat stopper. Can we agree on that? All i wanted to argu was balistics! How did it turn into this?
My situation is differnt, and so I use slugs. For all any of you know, I could live on a 1000 Acre ranch all alone with no family but myself, and nobody to concern myself with "collatorial damage" except the tree's. Not the case, but my point still stands. We could 'what if' this to death, (and for the record I think this whole tread has been a good read) but as stated in my first couple posts. Over penatration is a problem with ALL firearms and once you understand that; it takes away from the nay-saying about slugs. THAT'S ALL I EVER WANTED TO SAY If a person was TRUELY worried about over penatration they'd shoot flour like I made a crack about earlier. Didnt mean to offend, it was in realality, a balistic point. The smaller the partical the shallower, right?! Maybe a person lives in a glass house. Who knows! I just want to have the best chance of ending violence quick and boy o' boy what would do it better than a single well placed HV slug. Or perhaps the Tactical one's mentiond by FamilyDog which sound interesting and i'll now be looking into. Thanks FD.

[RJM]

So, why not use a high capacity rifle instead of a low capacity slug shotgun, killoften? Slugs seem to defeat the point of a shotgun, at least for me, which is multiple projectiles shot into a spread pattern.

[billyj571]

2 3/4" 00 buck

[killoften]

RJM: Somebody already asked that and I already answered to their/your question. Try checkin it out,(Post #48) I feel it's a good answer.
Then come back and let us all know how you feel, agree/disagree. Seriously I feel I, and a few others supported the slug debate quite well. But you'd never know that since you don't read the all the pages before posting.

[M1911]

Then come back and let us all know how you feel, agree/disagree. Seriously I feel I, and a few others supported the slug debate quite well.

And a lot of us just gave up arguing.

Slugs are for extending the range of a shotgun. If your living room is longer than 25 yards, then yes, they make sense.

[RJM]

Actually, killoften, you really didn't answer my question with your previous post. I am not asking about shot vs. slug but rather rifle vs. slug gun. I just cannot see the logic behind using a single projectile out of a lower capacity and higher recoiling shotgun vs. a higher capacity lower recoiling rifle/carbine given that you don't care about overpenetration.

I don't really need an answer from you though, I find everyone of your 9 posts to be condescending and boring and would really rather not read another one.

[mp25ds4]

Ive heard from more than one law enforcement officer that if you're going to shoot someone you better kill them, Because if you dont then they will sue you for everything you got. Im not sure if this is true or not but if it is, id go for some type of buckshot.

[scrub12b]

00 2 3/4 buckshot

[killoften]

My posts are boring? Condescending maybe, and I can work on that now that I know you feel that way. But boring? Uhh...? My bad...Didn't know that was the name of the game. I go from being called a keyboard commando to---boring?

Again, thanks for the personal attacks.
And for the rifle vs slug gun thing... Fair enough.
I could see somebody using an AR. I'd use that before I'd use shot. As my buddy always says, "my pistol is to get me to my shotgun, my shotgun is to get me to my AR-15." He's got a long hallway.

The reason I opt not to is because I feel 6+1 should be enough to end the threat. God strike me down if I'm wrong but I'm playin the odds that it won't be an extended firefight or more than a handful of badguys. But then again, aint no shame in a AR with a 30 round mag. I've cleared more houses than I care to count with nothing but. I just feel a slug, (being larger and heavier than several conventional rounds put together) is more lethal round for round.

[killoften]

"Slugs are for extending the range of a shotgun."
No, they, are, not! Just because slugs DO go further than shot, doesn't mean they are FOR extending range. Where is that written? Chokes are for extending range for shotguns. Shot and Slugs are completly differnt animals. One's a bullet, and one's a scattering bunch of pellets. I understand the confusion being that the same gun fires both, but people don't shoot slugs at clays or birds just to "reach out further" Of course you would use a slug against a buck or something at further range than shot becuase of shot's 'short-commings' (no pun intended) but that is not the end all be all. I'm not "dis-allowed" to use slugs at closer range am I? They're more lethal closer AND further than shot is.

[Old Grump]

what do you all use in yours? I am leaning toward 2 3/4 00 buck. but as will all things I like to know what the masses are into

That was the question and we answered and then the fun started. There are some here who have 'the' answer and it is the 'only' answer and no other answer should be tolerated. Some of us think there are a lot of options and we choose according to our situation. That is as it should be.

[killoften]

+1.

[Renfield]

2 3/4 inch #4 buckshot

[Webleymkv]

Depends on the gauge,

20ga- Remington 2 3/4" unplated #3 buckshot
12ga- Remington 3" unplated #4 Buckshot
10ga- Remington 3 1/2" steel BB shot

My reasoning is that the whole point of a shotgun for HD is to have a firearm that will equal the effectiveness of a rifle, but be less penetrative. By using a coarse birdshot (#2 or coarser) or a fine buckshot (#1 or finer) I feel that you can maximize your pellet count, reduce the risk of overpenetration, and still retain adequate penetration. If I really feel the need for more penetration that what these types of loadings can give me, I'd simply reach for a rifle.

[hardworker]

I keep a 20 gauge loaded with high brass 6's.

[MosinM38]

2 3/4" on all loads, either #4 or 00 buck. Either works fine for me under 25 yards. Actually I got two shotguns. One loaded with buck, one with slugs

[exphys2010]

I live in a well populated apartment complex, so I cannot go too large for fear that I may have too much wall penetration. I load my Mossberg (pistol grip and 18.5 inch barrel) with #4 buckshot. It has a greater number of pellets, and I have read several reports stating that it has a pretty decent amount of penetration in ballistics gel and other tests. However, if i lived in a house with no neighbors close by, I would definitely go with something larger, such as 0 or 00 buck.

[mwar410]

double barrel 12 ga. with 2 3/4 #4 buckshot, 26" barrels so I can easily move down my hallways, and it hits where I'm looking!!!

[therealdeal]

to the guy who said this is threaded too much: that was one of the most enjoyable threads to read in a long time. I hear you, but how can you not enjoy laughing out loud while scrolling thru the posts? lol. I think its good everyone seemed to have the right idea of what the ammo in the shotgun was for. to answer the thread, @ this time I have the federal&winchester 00 buck(both 3" + 15pellets) for my mossberg500(7 in tube+1 in the chamber) but my main HD are my two loaded revolvers(11shots from the CCW and bigger six-gun to get the shotgun which is in the bedroom but not as readily available as the .357's(available- just not as quickly 'in hand')

we got to get another one of these threads sometime

ps- after I throw the gun when rounds exhausted I am doublefistin w/my oldtimer knife and ruko buck 110 lookalike

[therealdeal]

mwar410- awesome point too. like grump said I am definately staying in wait on the other side of zone w/family but 8shots of) in a row is hard to argue with