Green Lasers a Tactical No-no? - Page 2

Peptobismol9 · July 19, 2009, 03:07 AM

Im sure its been said, But Radio shack carries Greenies handheld. I had one. Its great fun, But you can easily blind yourself cause the light is intense. It probally wont permanatley damage your eyes, but You only see green for about 5 or 6 minutes. So it would be good to blind the target.

Skan21 · July 19, 2009, 03:35 AM

When I was in Iraq, we got issued 10 of these green lasers per platoon. Then we were yelled at for about 20 minutes because they were so expensive and we, and I quote, " Had better not lose or break them, because if you do you had better hope AIF gets you!" As quoted directly from my platoon sergeant. The were ridiculously expensive, apparently. So we rode around with them for a few months. They did excel at one thing. At night, they are WAAAAY more effective than warning shots! We would have cars that wouldn't see us at night, and they'd get lit up with greenbeams. Boy would you hear brakes squeal then! Mostly they were just tailgaters and curfew violators. Those things blind the hell out of you. We finally dumped them after the novelty wore off. I preferred my Surefire vertical foregrip/tac-light.

Manning Munitions · July 19, 2009, 06:24 AM

Guys havent you heard, amatuers talk hardware........professionals talk software!!

Double Naught Spy · July 19, 2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Would this not be a tactical disadvantage in giving away your location, effectively painting a line back to you?

Something tells me that if I am shooting at somebody, then I have given away my position, chances are. Given that I am not a sniper or involved in deep cover mafia kills, then the bad guy probably already knows my position.

Quote:

Lasers??
Guys havent you heard, amatuers talk hardware........professionals talk software!!

Either you don't know any professionals or the professionals I know were never instructed on talk protocol.

G-man 26 · July 19, 2009, 07:10 PM

Man am I glad this was asked. I was thinking of putting a laser on my AR. I will look at the green ones after hearing all of this. Thanks all.

IZZY · July 21, 2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

When I was in Iraq, we got issued 10 of these green lasers per platoon. Then we were yelled at for about 20 minutes because they were so expensive and we, and I quote, " Had better not lose or break them, because if you do you had better hope AIF gets you!" As quoted directly from my platoon sergeant. The were ridiculously expensive, apparently. So we rode around with them for a few months. They did excel at one thing. At night, they are WAAAAY more effective than warning shots! We would have cars that wouldn't see us at night, and they'd get lit up with greenbeams. Boy would you hear brakes squeal then! Mostly they were just tailgaters and curfew violators. Those things blind the hell out of you. We finally dumped them after the novelty wore off. I preferred my Surefire vertical foregrip/tac-light.

Skan,

Any idea on the milliwats (mw) for those green lasers? I'm not sure a 5mw would be as effective....

jg0001 · July 23, 2009, 01:39 PM

Quick notes on the Viridian X5L (now that I've received it):

(1) regarding the DOT (end point of the beam only): in near complete darkness, INSIDE my house, the DOT is superbright and will light up the entire area it hits IF it hits a non-reflective surface (Hit something like a picture frame and it diffuses a bit); it is far far brighter than my Crimson Trace red lasers (in appearance to the human eye anyway)
-- with the above, there is NO WAY someone wearing normal clothes and in an enclosed environment (car or house) isn't going to notice the dot on themselves and the light spreading from it

(2) regarding the BEAM: in a DIMLY lit room, if you look very hard, you can see the beam if you are very close to it -- otherwise, it may as well not be visible; in a DARK room, you can more easily discern the beam, even from a distance (I could only go as far as 10' from it before hitting a wall); the BEAM itself does not scatter enough light to light up its path in any meaningful way; the tiny amount of particulate inside my house (i.e. dust) sparkled occasionally in the beam -- I imagine outside in remotely dusty environment and the beam would really put on a show (similar to what Viridian's own video shows on their website).

(3) DAYLIGHT -- in a brightly lit room (daylight through windows + overhead lights), picking up on the green dot remained near instantaneous (from the shooter's perspective) whereas the crimson trace dot could get lost if focused on a non-dark end point; both were still quite capable of being useful at the max distance I had a chance to try them (about 45 feet)

(4) NIGHT/DARK -- here's where it is interesting... where the Crimson Trace red dot is just as useful in targeting as it's green brethren, the one major difference here is that it ISN'T too bright to be a problem in tight quarters... while I understand you shouldn't go with constant on beams in a tactical situation, I would note that if you are in the dark and scanning a room with the green laser, if/as you lase over a nearby wall/door, the intensity of the green light may impact your own night vision; the red doesn't have the same impact... of couse, used properly, the extreme brightness in the dark of the green is a great weapon/deterrent in and of itself... splash it over someone's eyes at night and they'll be seeing spots [note: not tested nor recommended] I imagine the same thing would hold true for a flashlight... a super bright beam thrown down range is fine, but bounce that off of a wall 3 feet from your own face (in the dark) and it could be a problem.

The rifle I plan to mount this on is due in shortly. I'll follow up with a more hands-on range report once I get the chance to take 'er out. In case I opt for another laser for the rifle, I also bought a holster that can be used with this light mounted on my SigP226 (a Blackhawk Omega VI holster).

Edward429451 · July 23, 2009, 02:26 PM

Ah they're just toys to me. I could run the dog I used to have into the wall with it, but my new dog is too smart for that.

I did get to use mine as a deterrent one time. A group of "homies" were bothering my son and kept driving by or sitting in front of the house to intimidate him so I put the laser inside with them one time and voila' they wanted to leave and never saw them again for some reason???

Skans · July 27, 2009, 03:50 PM

I like night sights. But, don't like lasers. Night sights are just there if you need them - no switches, no batteries, and nothing to give away your position. For home defense, I want to be as stealthy as possible and let the BG give away his position. That means no shotgun "cha-chink", no racking the slide, no lasers and no flashlights. Just me and my gun.

Skans · July 27, 2009, 03:52 PM

I like night sights. But, don't like lasers. Night sights are just there if you need them - no switches, no batteries, and nothing to give away your position. To me, a handgun with lasers and/or flashlights is like a Harley with loud pipes. Great for letting people know you're there....but doesn't do a damn thing for getting the job done any faster.

For home defense, I want to be as stealthy as possible and let the BG give away his position. That means no shotgun "cha-chink", no racking the slide, no lasers and no flashlights. Just me and my gun.

Housezealot · July 28, 2009, 01:21 PM

now if only crimson trace would release green lasers i would be all over them!

Glenn E. Meyer · July 29, 2009, 11:41 AM

Obviously, a green laser company would have to call itself the Green Lantern Corps but then it would get sued by DC and Warner Brothers.

When I can hang a power ring on my AR - that will be something.

I wonder if folks suffer from gadet choice in a crisis? Makes sense from a human factors point - too many controls to choose from.

seeker_two · August 4, 2009, 06:17 PM

I prefer the bright, white lasers....

Old Wanderer · August 8, 2009, 01:00 AM

splash it over someone's eyes at night and they'll be seeing spots [note: not tested nor recommended] I imagine the same thing would hold true for a flashlight.

There is a real difference between the green laser and flashlight. I have the military version of the green laser, and with the flashlight you just loose night vision, with the green laser, you are blind for 5 to 20 minutes...nothing permanent, but it truly panics the heck out of your opponent.

Also in a very dark room, the "splatter" effect of the green laser, while putting it in the eyes of your target, it allows visibility to determine if he/she has an accomplice. Then a quick move to that smiling face, and you own the night.

Move quietly, and if you know any basic marshal arts, put them on the ground, (remember they are blind). If they have weapons, do not endanger yourself, unless you have the training. Remember the old saying...."Violence and sex, you can't enjoy one if you don't survive the other"

In my home I have some industrial strength zip ties...2 for the wrists, in a figure 8, 1 for the ankles, 1 for the throat and a few Daisey chained together to connect the throat zip to the ankle zip and bow tie them...

July 19, 2009, 06:24 AM	#28
Manning Munitions Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Posts: 20	Lasers?? Guys havent you heard, amatuers talk hardware........professionals talk software!!

July 19, 2009, 07:10 PM	#30
G-man 26 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2008 Location: southern, CA Posts: 212	Man am I glad this was asked. I was thinking of putting a laser on my AR. I will look at the green ones after hearing all of this. Thanks all. __________________ "When one man speaks to another man who doesn't understand him, and when the man who's speaking no longer understands, it's metaphysics." Voltaire

July 23, 2009, 01:39 PM	#32
jg0001 Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2007 Posts: 551	Quick notes on the Viridian X5L (now that I've received it): (1) regarding the DOT (end point of the beam only): in near complete darkness, INSIDE my house, the DOT is superbright and will light up the entire area it hits IF it hits a non-reflective surface (Hit something like a picture frame and it diffuses a bit); it is far far brighter than my Crimson Trace red lasers (in appearance to the human eye anyway) -- with the above, there is NO WAY someone wearing normal clothes and in an enclosed environment (car or house) isn't going to notice the dot on themselves and the light spreading from it (2) regarding the BEAM: in a DIMLY lit room, if you look very hard, you can see the beam if you are very close to it -- otherwise, it may as well not be visible; in a DARK room, you can more easily discern the beam, even from a distance (I could only go as far as 10' from it before hitting a wall); the BEAM itself does not scatter enough light to light up its path in any meaningful way; the tiny amount of particulate inside my house (i.e. dust) sparkled occasionally in the beam -- I imagine outside in remotely dusty environment and the beam would really put on a show (similar to what Viridian's own video shows on their website). (3) DAYLIGHT -- in a brightly lit room (daylight through windows + overhead lights), picking up on the green dot remained near instantaneous (from the shooter's perspective) whereas the crimson trace dot could get lost if focused on a non-dark end point; both were still quite capable of being useful at the max distance I had a chance to try them (about 45 feet) (4) NIGHT/DARK -- here's where it is interesting... where the Crimson Trace red dot is just as useful in targeting as it's green brethren, the one major difference here is that it ISN'T too bright to be a problem in tight quarters... while I understand you shouldn't go with constant on beams in a tactical situation, I would note that if you are in the dark and scanning a room with the green laser, if/as you lase over a nearby wall/door, the intensity of the green light may impact your own night vision; the red doesn't have the same impact... of couse, used properly, the extreme brightness in the dark of the green is a great weapon/deterrent in and of itself... splash it over someone's eyes at night and they'll be seeing spots [note: not tested nor recommended] I imagine the same thing would hold true for a flashlight... a super bright beam thrown down range is fine, but bounce that off of a wall 3 feet from your own face (in the dark) and it could be a problem. The rifle I plan to mount this on is due in shortly. I'll follow up with a more hands-on range report once I get the chance to take 'er out. In case I opt for another laser for the rifle, I also bought a holster that can be used with this light mounted on my SigP226 (a Blackhawk Omega VI holster). Last edited by jg0001; July 23, 2009 at 01:44 PM.

July 28, 2009, 01:21 PM	#36
Housezealot Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 606	now if only crimson trace would release green lasers i would be all over them! __________________ We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

July 29, 2009, 11:41 AM	#37
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Obviously, a green laser company would have to call itself the Green Lantern Corps but then it would get sued by DC and Warner Brothers. When I can hang a power ring on my AR - that will be something. I wonder if folks suffer from gadet choice in a crisis? Makes sense from a human factors point - too many controls to choose from. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

July 19, 2009, 03:07 AM	#26
Peptobismol9 Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2009 Posts: 137	Im sure its been said, But Radio shack carries Greenies handheld. I had one. Its great fun, But you can easily blind yourself cause the light is intense. It probally wont permanatley damage your eyes, but You only see green for about 5 or 6 minutes. So it would be good to blind the target.

July 19, 2009, 03:35 AM	#27
Skan21 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 463	When I was in Iraq, we got issued 10 of these green lasers per platoon. Then we were yelled at for about 20 minutes because they were so expensive and we, and I quote, " Had better not lose or break them, because if you do you had better hope AIF gets you!" As quoted directly from my platoon sergeant. The were ridiculously expensive, apparently. So we rode around with them for a few months. They did excel at one thing. At night, they are WAAAAY more effective than warning shots! We would have cars that wouldn't see us at night, and they'd get lit up with greenbeams. Boy would you hear brakes squeal then! Mostly they were just tailgaters and curfew violators. Those things blind the hell out of you. We finally dumped them after the novelty wore off. I preferred my Surefire vertical foregrip/tac-light.

July 23, 2009, 02:26 PM	#33
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Ah they're just toys to me. I could run the dog I used to have into the wall with it, but my new dog is too smart for that. I did get to use mine as a deterrent one time. A group of "homies" were bothering my son and kept driving by or sitting in front of the house to intimidate him so I put the laser inside with them one time and voila' they wanted to leave and never saw them again for some reason???

July 27, 2009, 03:50 PM	#34
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I like night sights. But, don't like lasers. Night sights are just there if you need them - no switches, no batteries, and nothing to give away your position. For home defense, I want to be as stealthy as possible and let the BG give away his position. That means no shotgun "cha-chink", no racking the slide, no lasers and no flashlights. Just me and my gun.

July 27, 2009, 03:52 PM	#35
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I like night sights. But, don't like lasers. Night sights are just there if you need them - no switches, no batteries, and nothing to give away your position. To me, a handgun with lasers and/or flashlights is like a Harley with loud pipes. Great for letting people know you're there....but doesn't do a damn thing for getting the job done any faster. For home defense, I want to be as stealthy as possible and let the BG give away his position. That means no shotgun "cha-chink", no racking the slide, no lasers and no flashlights. Just me and my gun.

August 4, 2009, 06:17 PM	#38
seeker_two Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2002 Location: Deep in the Heart of the Lone Star State (TX) Posts: 2,169	I prefer the bright, white lasers.... __________________ Proud member of Gun Culture 2.0......

August 8, 2009, 01:00 AM	#39
Old Wanderer Member Join Date: December 26, 2008 Location: Bonney Lake, WA Posts: 77	splash it over someone's eyes at night and they'll be seeing spots [note: not tested nor recommended] I imagine the same thing would hold true for a flashlight. There is a real difference between the green laser and flashlight. I have the military version of the green laser, and with the flashlight you just loose night vision, with the green laser, you are blind for 5 to 20 minutes...nothing permanent, but it truly panics the heck out of your opponent. Also in a very dark room, the "splatter" effect of the green laser, while putting it in the eyes of your target, it allows visibility to determine if he/she has an accomplice. Then a quick move to that smiling face, and you own the night. Move quietly, and if you know any basic marshal arts, put them on the ground, (remember they are blind). If they have weapons, do not endanger yourself, unless you have the training. Remember the old saying...."Violence and sex, you can't enjoy one if you don't survive the other" In my home I have some industrial strength zip ties...2 for the wrists, in a figure 8, 1 for the ankles, 1 for the throat and a few Daisey chained together to connect the throat zip to the ankle zip and bow tie them...