Slugs: rifled and other

deanf · October 29, 2000, 09:03 PM

I know little to nothing about shotguns slugs. Tomorrow I'm going hunting in a shotgun only area, and plan to use slugs. I don't own any rifled barrels for any of my shotguns. It's my understanding that rifled slugs only work as intended in rifled barrels. Is this true? Could I use rifled slugs in my smoothbore and expect results? If not, what is the type of slug that I should get called? I'll either be using my .410 cylinder bore 26" bbl., or my 12ga cylinder bore 20" bbl.

------------------
"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz

CD1 · October 29, 2000, 10:00 PM

Rifled slugs are designed to be used in smootbores. The concept is to put the rifling on the slug itself since there is no rifling in the barrel. They work fine, just keep in mind that your range will be limited by the fact that you (probably) don't have sights on the smoothbore. Remington makes good slugs that you can find almost anywhere. There are others available but you will probably be able to find Remingtons everywhere. Make sure you get a chance to shoot it before you hunt with it so you know what it will do. Good luck.

[This message has been edited by CD1 (edited October 29, 2000).]

deanf · October 29, 2000, 10:08 PM

Thanks for the reply.

That means I'll have to buy one box of rilfed slugs and one box of regular, and put the rifled slugs in the regular box. If my dad sees me put the rifled slugs in the smoothbore, he'll have a fit. He's positively convinced it's the other way 'round ie: rifled slugs are for rifled barrels.

Dave McC · October 30, 2000, 06:34 AM

Sigh....

First, going hunting w/o zeroing and understanding how your shotgun shoots is inhumane to any deer unfortunate enough to cross your path, and there's a safety risk to the other hunters.

Second, 410s are prohibited from being used on deer in all areas I know of. The smallest gauge usable here in Md is the 20.

Third,all solid shotgun projectiles are slugs. The common terminology is rifled slug, but none are truly rifled and spin from the bore,unless the bore is rifled.

As a very loose rule, the older Forster type slugs and the Brennekes work best from smoothbore tubes, and the new sabots from full rifled bbls. But, the ONLY way to find what slug works best for your shotgun is to take a bunch of different slugs to the range and bench test them.

I heartily recommend you refrain from deer hunting with slugs until you get your shotgun zeroed and some practice behind you. Until then, you're just anti hunting propaganda waiting to happen.

PJR · October 30, 2000, 08:30 AM

Post edited at moderator's request

[This message has been edited by PJR (edited October 31, 2000).]

cuerno de chivo · October 30, 2000, 08:55 AM

deanf,

the .410 is probably not legal. my state is limited to 28ga and above for deer (slugs only). non-saboted slugs are for smoothbore. though you never said you were or weren't, seeing how the slugs work in your shotgun is advisable.

enjoy your hunt and ignore the ********!

Clark Kent · October 30, 2000, 03:29 PM

I tested 1 box each of four different brands Sunday through my new 870 rifled barrel -- Brenneke saboted slugs (3-inchers), Remington copper sabot, Federal copper plated sabots and Winchester rifled slugs. The Winchesters were old and unsaboted, but were the most accurate. That surprised me, considering the ballistic principles of the sabot slug and the promising reviews I've seen of them.

deanf · October 30, 2000, 04:25 PM

Thanks for the lectures, folks.

Senior Members should expect to be treated better by other senior members. It's a wonder any new members stay around here.

As to the .410: I don't have a copy of the WA game regs here in front of me, but I always read them thoroughly before the season starts, even the parts that don't apply to me. I'm fairly sure .410 is legal, and even if it's not, it's only hunting for the love of mike; I'm not planning a mission to the moon.

I did not ask for advice on whether the .410 is appropriate for deer. None of you has any idea of the particulars of my hunting situation today. The .410 may be perfectly appropriate. The legality, I will admit, is questionable. The ability to cleaning take a deer, in my particular hunting situation? Yes, with as much certainty as any of us can find in most hunting situations.

(I'll be using a 12ga, by-the-way - couln't find any .410 slugs.)

PJR · October 30, 2000, 05:10 PM

Post edited at moderator's request

[This message has been edited by PJR (edited October 31, 2000).]

Onslaught · October 30, 2000, 05:18 PM

Now fellas, I'm new over here in the "Shotgun" part, but the nice guys in "Handguns" take it easy on each other, even when they disagree (usually). Sure, deanf may not be acting COMPLETELY responsibly, and it is your duty as well informed individuals to HELP OUT a fellow firearms enthusiast however possible, WITHOUT jumping on him at the first sign of possible ignorance.

That's what we're here for, right? to help each other out?

Kain't we awl jest git alowng?

Thanks...

Onslaught

deanf · October 31, 2000, 03:02 AM

[This message has been edited by deanf (edited October 31, 2000).]

PJR · October 31, 2000, 12:44 PM

Erick:

I've removed my posts but haven't changed my opinions. What irritated me was the request coming the night before a hunt. The same question a month before a hunt would not have drawn the same response. I've done a lot of slug hunting and would have been happy to share what I've learned.

By way of explanation, I'm an active hunter and shooter who lives in the country near a large urban area. Increasingly "hunters" from the city will come into our area believing then can go just anywhere and shoot just anything without a moments consideration for either property owners, other hunters or the game.

I've come across the carcasses of animals wounded because someone used a gun that was too light for the task, couldn't place their shots accurately, and were either too damn lazy or incompetent to track the animal they'd hit.

This year I posted my land, something I never thought I would do. I did so to stop guys from coming up the lane way on opening day asking to hunt my property. On one occasion a couple of idiots barreled up to my front door astride ATVs in full gear, guns included to ask permission. I'm often away on business in the city and don't wany my wife bothered by these requests. That's why my land is posted.

The bottom line is that if you lose people like me through increasingly bad behavior how do you ever expect to convice a non-hunter/shooter that hunting has a proper place in our society?

Congrats to deanf for his buck and note that used a 12 gauge to do it. I'm glad he couldn't find .410 slugs. The .410 is a crippler that is unsuited for most anything IMHO except rats and starlings.

If I came on a little too strong it was the result of the frustration of seeing a sport that I've participated in all my life being hurt by people who don't take hunting seriously enough to properly prepare to go into the field and act irresponsibly once they are there.

Next time, I'll take Dave McC's approach.

Poodleshooter · October 31, 2000, 04:33 PM

A thought: the .410 slug develops ballistics just short of the .41 Magnum and superior to the .357 Magnum. In the right hands it could be a sufficient 50yd deer killer (providing it's legal of course).

deanf · October 31, 2000, 04:46 PM

That's kind of what I was thinking. I did check the WA regs, .410 is not legal.

. . . but 9mm and 38 spl and .25 ACP and .380 ACP are . . . . any rifle or pistol over 24 calibre. They don't base it on foot-pounds of energy anymore. Any we know the .410 with slugs would be better than any of those . . . .

[This message has been edited by deanf (edited October 31, 2000).]

Oleg Volk · October 31, 2000, 08:27 PM

If you can't zero before the hunt, could you at least fire a couple of rounds for practice at, say 25 and 50 yards so you'd know where the point of impact is? Given the mortar-like trajectory of a 12ga slug, you may be 6" over point of aim at the top of the curve.

Dave McMillan · November 1, 2000, 09:44 AM

Clark Kent,

That's very interesting. I don't know why, but my Browning A-bolt slug gun literature repeatedly warns to use only sabot slugs. It was so consistent that I was sure some major catastrophy would occur if I tried rifled slugs.

Does anyone have any idea why?

Thanks

Clark Kent · November 1, 2000, 12:37 PM

Dave - It occurs to me that maybe the rifling on the slug would tangle with the rifling in the barrel -- something I never thought of Sunday -- but, if so, the Winchesters should have been all over the map. Maybe coincidentally the riflings meshed perfectly.

October 29, 2000, 09:03 PM	#1
deanf Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 1999 Location: N47º 12’ x W122º 10' Posts: 1,599	I know little to nothing about shotguns slugs. Tomorrow I'm going hunting in a shotgun only area, and plan to use slugs. I don't own any rifled barrels for any of my shotguns. It's my understanding that rifled slugs only work as intended in rifled barrels. Is this true? Could I use rifled slugs in my smoothbore and expect results? If not, what is the type of slug that I should get called? I'll either be using my .410 cylinder bore 26" bbl., or my 12ga cylinder bore 20" bbl. ------------------ "Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz

October 29, 2000, 10:00 PM	#2
CD1 Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2000 Posts: 320	Rifled slugs are designed to be used in smootbores. The concept is to put the rifling on the slug itself since there is no rifling in the barrel. They work fine, just keep in mind that your range will be limited by the fact that you (probably) don't have sights on the smoothbore. Remington makes good slugs that you can find almost anywhere. There are others available but you will probably be able to find Remingtons everywhere. Make sure you get a chance to shoot it before you hunt with it so you know what it will do. Good luck. [This message has been edited by CD1 (edited October 29, 2000).]

October 29, 2000, 10:08 PM	#3
deanf Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 1999 Location: N47º 12’ x W122º 10' Posts: 1,599	Thanks for the reply. That means I'll have to buy one box of rilfed slugs and one box of regular, and put the rifled slugs in the regular box. If my dad sees me put the rifled slugs in the smoothbore, he'll have a fit. He's positively convinced it's the other way 'round ie: rifled slugs are for rifled barrels.

October 30, 2000, 06:34 AM	#4
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Sigh.... First, going hunting w/o zeroing and understanding how your shotgun shoots is inhumane to any deer unfortunate enough to cross your path, and there's a safety risk to the other hunters. Second, 410s are prohibited from being used on deer in all areas I know of. The smallest gauge usable here in Md is the 20. Third,all solid shotgun projectiles are slugs. The common terminology is rifled slug, but none are truly rifled and spin from the bore,unless the bore is rifled. As a very loose rule, the older Forster type slugs and the Brennekes work best from smoothbore tubes, and the new sabots from full rifled bbls. But, the ONLY way to find what slug works best for your shotgun is to take a bunch of different slugs to the range and bench test them. I heartily recommend you refrain from deer hunting with slugs until you get your shotgun zeroed and some practice behind you. Until then, you're just anti hunting propaganda waiting to happen.

October 30, 2000, 08:30 AM	#5
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	Post edited at moderator's request [This message has been edited by PJR (edited October 31, 2000).]

October 30, 2000, 08:55 AM	#6
cuerno de chivo Junior member Join Date: July 6, 2000 Posts: 919	deanf, the .410 is probably not legal. my state is limited to 28ga and above for deer (slugs only). non-saboted slugs are for smoothbore. though you never said you were or weren't, seeing how the slugs work in your shotgun is advisable. enjoy your hunt and ignore the ********!

October 30, 2000, 03:29 PM	#7
Clark Kent Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 1999 Posts: 128	I tested 1 box each of four different brands Sunday through my new 870 rifled barrel -- Brenneke saboted slugs (3-inchers), Remington copper sabot, Federal copper plated sabots and Winchester rifled slugs. The Winchesters were old and unsaboted, but were the most accurate. That surprised me, considering the ballistic principles of the sabot slug and the promising reviews I've seen of them.

October 30, 2000, 04:25 PM	#8
deanf Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 1999 Location: N47º 12’ x W122º 10' Posts: 1,599	Thanks for the lectures, folks. Senior Members should expect to be treated better by other senior members. It's a wonder any new members stay around here. As to the .410: I don't have a copy of the WA game regs here in front of me, but I always read them thoroughly before the season starts, even the parts that don't apply to me. I'm fairly sure .410 is legal, and even if it's not, it's only hunting for the love of mike; I'm not planning a mission to the moon. I did not ask for advice on whether the .410 is appropriate for deer. None of you has any idea of the particulars of my hunting situation today. The .410 may be perfectly appropriate. The legality, I will admit, is questionable. The ability to cleaning take a deer, in my particular hunting situation? Yes, with as much certainty as any of us can find in most hunting situations. (I'll be using a 12ga, by-the-way - couln't find any .410 slugs.)

October 30, 2000, 05:10 PM	#9
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	Post edited at moderator's request [This message has been edited by PJR (edited October 31, 2000).]

October 30, 2000, 05:18 PM	#10
Onslaught Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,749	Now fellas, I'm new over here in the "Shotgun" part, but the nice guys in "Handguns" take it easy on each other, even when they disagree (usually). Sure, deanf may not be acting COMPLETELY responsibly, and it is your duty as well informed individuals to HELP OUT a fellow firearms enthusiast however possible, WITHOUT jumping on him at the first sign of possible ignorance. That's what we're here for, right? to help each other out? Kain't we awl jest git alowng? Thanks... Onslaught

October 31, 2000, 03:02 AM	#11
deanf Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 1999 Location: N47º 12’ x W122º 10' Posts: 1,599	[This message has been edited by deanf (edited October 31, 2000).]

October 31, 2000, 12:44 PM	#12
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	Erick: I've removed my posts but haven't changed my opinions. What irritated me was the request coming the night before a hunt. The same question a month before a hunt would not have drawn the same response. I've done a lot of slug hunting and would have been happy to share what I've learned. By way of explanation, I'm an active hunter and shooter who lives in the country near a large urban area. Increasingly "hunters" from the city will come into our area believing then can go just anywhere and shoot just anything without a moments consideration for either property owners, other hunters or the game. I've come across the carcasses of animals wounded because someone used a gun that was too light for the task, couldn't place their shots accurately, and were either too damn lazy or incompetent to track the animal they'd hit. This year I posted my land, something I never thought I would do. I did so to stop guys from coming up the lane way on opening day asking to hunt my property. On one occasion a couple of idiots barreled up to my front door astride ATVs in full gear, guns included to ask permission. I'm often away on business in the city and don't wany my wife bothered by these requests. That's why my land is posted. The bottom line is that if you lose people like me through increasingly bad behavior how do you ever expect to convice a non-hunter/shooter that hunting has a proper place in our society? Congrats to deanf for his buck and note that used a 12 gauge to do it. I'm glad he couldn't find .410 slugs. The .410 is a crippler that is unsuited for most anything IMHO except rats and starlings. If I came on a little too strong it was the result of the frustration of seeing a sport that I've participated in all my life being hurt by people who don't take hunting seriously enough to properly prepare to go into the field and act irresponsibly once they are there. Next time, I'll take Dave McC's approach.

October 31, 2000, 04:33 PM	#13
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	A thought: the .410 slug develops ballistics just short of the .41 Magnum and superior to the .357 Magnum. In the right hands it could be a sufficient 50yd deer killer (providing it's legal of course).

October 31, 2000, 04:46 PM	#14
deanf Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 1999 Location: N47º 12’ x W122º 10' Posts: 1,599	That's kind of what I was thinking. I did check the WA regs, .410 is not legal. . . . but 9mm and 38 spl and .25 ACP and .380 ACP are . . . . any rifle or pistol over 24 calibre. They don't base it on foot-pounds of energy anymore. Any we know the .410 with slugs would be better than any of those . . . . [This message has been edited by deanf (edited October 31, 2000).]

October 31, 2000, 08:27 PM	#15
Oleg Volk Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 7,022	If you can't zero before the hunt, could you at least fire a couple of rounds for practice at, say 25 and 50 yards so you'd know where the point of impact is? Given the mortar-like trajectory of a 12ga slug, you may be 6" over point of aim at the top of the curve.

November 1, 2000, 09:44 AM	#16
Dave McMillan Member Join Date: October 1, 2000 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 43	Clark Kent, That's very interesting. I don't know why, but my Browning A-bolt slug gun literature repeatedly warns to use only sabot slugs. It was so consistent that I was sure some major catastrophy would occur if I tried rifled slugs. Does anyone have any idea why? Thanks

November 1, 2000, 12:37 PM	#17
Clark Kent Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 1999 Posts: 128	Dave - It occurs to me that maybe the rifling on the slug would tangle with the rifling in the barrel -- something I never thought of Sunday -- but, if so, the Winchesters should have been all over the map. Maybe coincidentally the riflings meshed perfectly.