Need an opinion...Sharps Clones

Doc Hoy · May 27, 2013, 11:23 AM

I think TomADC might be the authority here. Maybe Hawg. Maybe Bed Bug has a thought.

As regards the 1874 Sharps clones, of the various issues out there may I assume that Pedersoli is at or near the top of the heap?

I have a line on a used one, a round barrel saddle ring carbine in .45-70 for 775.00.

Doc Hoy · May 27, 2013, 12:20 PM

I just bought it.

But I would still be happy for you to tell me whether or not I made a good choice.

Looks like a rifle that goes for about 1200.00 new. Was a hundred cheaper than anything else on the GB accept for an IAB which was 750.00. I had read one account of the IABs being slightly lower in quality.

Your feedback greatly appreciated.

Hawg · May 27, 2013, 02:17 PM

I've been reading up a lot on Sharps lately. Shiloh is top of the list followed by C.Sharps and Pedersoli. My papercutter was made by IAB and it looks really nice. I still don't have a mold for it so haven't had proper bullets but fit and metal finish is very good. The wood finish I'm not crazy about. You got a nice quality rifle Doc, enjoy it.

Doc Hoy · May 27, 2013, 04:13 PM

Much obliged.

bedbugbilly · May 27, 2013, 04:24 PM

Congrats Doc . . . sounds like you got a good one and a good price. Let us know how it shoots!

wap41 · May 27, 2013, 04:31 PM

Just got a 1863 sharps sporting rifle,haven't had a chance to shoot it yet but if it shoots as good as it looks I'll be one happy camper

Doc Hoy · May 27, 2013, 04:58 PM

It was a front stuffer which I think went by the model, "Kentuckian".

It was a relatively nice rifle in comparison to others that were available at the time. But not as good as top of the line for the common market. Dixie had some "Kentucky rifles" that were more authentic and I would say better workmanship. Although they were more expensive.

I traded it and some cash for a milling machine.

Doc Hoy · May 27, 2013, 05:23 PM

That I am interested in as far as history and connections.

E.M.F. imported some pretty good quality cap and ball revolvers back in the day. I think their manufacturer was ASP.

Then their is Armi Sport a name which is associated with Armi San Marco. At least I think it is.

Anyone know of connections here?

Also, should I be looking for a date stamp on this Pedersoli when it arrives?

Hawg · May 27, 2013, 05:30 PM

Armi Sport is Chiappa. I have a P53 Enfield they made I bought new some 30 odd years ago. Its not an exact clone but it is pretty close and shoots like a dream. There will be a date code on it Doc. I recently became aware of a new twist. There's an import company calling itself Arsmsport, not ArmiSport but they are importers only.

Doc Hoy · May 27, 2013, 05:35 PM

Chiappa was the other name I could not think of.

BTW,

Your 1863 is .54 Cal right?

Hawg · May 27, 2013, 05:39 PM

Yeah. I need a mold for it but the Pedersoli mold is too small. Planning on getting one from Moose Molds as soon as I can scrape up the bucks. I tried a R.E.A.L. mold but those bullets are too small too.

Jbar4Ranch · May 27, 2013, 06:31 PM

According to the late Dick Trent of Pedersoli, Uberti marked rifles are built entirely by Pedersoli, so Uberti and Pedersoli are one and the same rifle. That said, I have a Shiloh .45-70, a Uberti .45-70, and a Uberti .45-120. The Shiloh is the prettiest of the bunch, not surprisingly, but the Uberti .45-70 slightly, but consistently, outshoots it. On a cool, calm day, it will shoot sub-2MOA @ 500 yards quite consistently, and I've had many, many groups under 8", with my best being 3 3/8". I've only shot a sub-4" group twice @ 500 yards, and there was nobody to see it either time.

This with a cast 535 grain Postell bullet and Swiss 1 1/2 black powder.

freedom475 · May 27, 2013, 07:06 PM

I really like my Pedersoli....it has served me very well! Have killed elk, mule deer, whitetail, antelope, bear, tons of gophers, a couple badgers and a coyote with it....Oh yeah, and one Buffalo
I have around 15,000 rounds through mine. At about 12,000 she broke a firing pin and then just the other day she broke her lever spring. (had to use a rubber band for a few days while waiting for the new spring to arrive)

The bore is polished pretty smooth and it has a little pitting, but it will still shoot into less than 2" at 300yards with 2ff Kik or Swiss 1 1/2 and the Postell 535gr. off the bench.

Doc Hoy · May 27, 2013, 11:11 PM

Two good posts.

I will never shoot mine as seriously as you do.

I have not been shooting for such a long time because of weather and travel requirements that I almost forgot which end the bullets comes out of.

Chowmif16 · May 28, 2013, 12:39 AM

Doc,
I have a Pedersoli Sharps 45-70 I bought in 1996 for $1200. I love it to death, and you got a good deal.
I haven't shot it as much as I should have, but I have learned loads from it. I know you are working on a Trapdoor as well. I have an original Trapdoor rifle from 1884 also.
If you have not done much LRBPCR, then get the books from Paul Matthews. There is so much good information there, and I have used that information for my
.45 Colt Black Powder loads as well ( which I know you are loading).
I would be interested to hear of your progress with the Sharps. I have found that with this rifle that consistency in every step is the key to success. I cast my own bullets at about 520 gr, and weight every single one. I have gone back and forth between using a grease cookie or not, and wiping between every shot or not. Unfortunately, since I have so many other projects in line, I have not settled on a great load for it yet. If I do, I'll let you know.
Cheers,
Chowmi

Doc Hoy · May 28, 2013, 04:52 AM

Thanks for the wink back. I'll check out the book.

Jim Watson · May 28, 2013, 07:59 AM

Pedersoli has a good reputation among imports.
That seems not a bad price these days, IF YOU WANT A CARBINE.
I don't. A friend has a Sharps conversion .50-70 that is fun for three or four shots. I watched Woody shooting one at the pigs for fun and concluded that 300 yards is a long shot for a carbine.

I'd want a 30" barrel and a shotgun butt. Wait, that is what I do have.

But buy what you want, even if it costs more to start. It will still be less expensive than trading around later if the Good Deal is not a Good Shooter.

Doc Hoy · May 28, 2013, 10:10 AM

I'll prolly never shoot more than 200 yards with this rifle. It fits with the other rifles I have which essentially have the appearance of cavalry carbines post ACW.

Next stop is a Remington Rolling Block in .45-70.

Old Dragoon · May 28, 2013, 09:09 PM

I owned a Shiloh Sharps and a Pedersoli at the same time. the SS was a good put together gun, but the used Pedersoli could out shoot it any day of the week. I sold the expensive SS and kept the Pedersoli.

Doc Hoy · May 29, 2013, 12:07 AM

In the immortal words of Peter Boyle,"Holy Crap!"

I would not have expected to read that.

freedom475 · May 29, 2013, 07:36 AM

I have read that type of review quite often....I know the Shiloh has a much deeper and sharper cut to it's rifling. Wonder if these big gooves cut into the bullet and hinder its' accuracy. The really large cuts have to distort the tail of the bullet and cause more spin-drift.

After comparing my Pedersoli rifling to the Shiloh, I called Lee Shaver to have a new barrel installed, but he convinced me...."If it ain't broke, Don't fix it"

I can't believe how subtle my rifling is and it still shoots well, even with Black Powder. The riling is easily 2 to 3 times more proud in the Shiloh.

Doc Hoy · May 29, 2013, 09:11 AM

Good point.

The rifling in my trapdoor is quite shallow as well. It shoots better than I can measure.

May 27, 2013, 11:23 AM	#1
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Need an opinion...Sharps Clones I think TomADC might be the authority here. Maybe Hawg. Maybe Bed Bug has a thought. As regards the 1874 Sharps clones, of the various issues out there may I assume that Pedersoli is at or near the top of the heap? I have a line on a used one, a round barrel saddle ring carbine in .45-70 for 775.00. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

May 27, 2013, 12:20 PM	#2
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Too late for your opinion as to whether or not I should buy the Sharps. I just bought it. But I would still be happy for you to tell me whether or not I made a good choice. Looks like a rifle that goes for about 1200.00 new. Was a hundred cheaper than anything else on the GB accept for an IAB which was 750.00. I had read one account of the IABs being slightly lower in quality. Your feedback greatly appreciated. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

May 27, 2013, 04:13 PM	#4
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Thanks, Hawg. Much obliged. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

May 27, 2013, 04:24 PM	#5
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Congrats Doc . . . sounds like you got a good one and a good price. Let us know how it shoots! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

May 27, 2013, 04:31 PM	#6
wap41 Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2009 Posts: 99	pedersoli Just got a 1863 sharps sporting rifle,haven't had a chance to shoot it yet but if it shoots as good as it looks I'll be one happy camper

May 27, 2013, 02:17 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I've been reading up a lot on Sharps lately. Shiloh is top of the list followed by C.Sharps and Pedersoli. My papercutter was made by IAB and it looks really nice. I still don't have a mold for it so haven't had proper bullets but fit and metal finish is very good. The wood finish I'm not crazy about. You got a nice quality rifle Doc, enjoy it.

May 27, 2013, 04:58 PM	#7
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I have only owned one Pedersoli in my life... It was a front stuffer which I think went by the model, "Kentuckian". It was a relatively nice rifle in comparison to others that were available at the time. But not as good as top of the line for the common market. Dixie had some "Kentucky rifles" that were more authentic and I would say better workmanship. Although they were more expensive. I traded it and some cash for a milling machine. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

May 27, 2013, 05:23 PM	#8
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Okay so there are two additional names... That I am interested in as far as history and connections. E.M.F. imported some pretty good quality cap and ball revolvers back in the day. I think their manufacturer was ASP. Then their is Armi Sport a name which is associated with Armi San Marco. At least I think it is. Anyone know of connections here? Also, should I be looking for a date stamp on this Pedersoli when it arrives? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

May 27, 2013, 05:30 PM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Armi Sport is Chiappa. I have a P53 Enfield they made I bought new some 30 odd years ago. Its not an exact clone but it is pretty close and shoots like a dream. There will be a date code on it Doc. I recently became aware of a new twist. There's an import company calling itself Arsmsport, not ArmiSport but they are importers only.

May 27, 2013, 05:35 PM	#10
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Thanks Hawg.... Chiappa was the other name I could not think of. BTW, Your 1863 is .54 Cal right? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

May 27, 2013, 05:39 PM	#11
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Yeah. I need a mold for it but the Pedersoli mold is too small. Planning on getting one from Moose Molds as soon as I can scrape up the bucks. I tried a R.E.A.L. mold but those bullets are too small too.

May 27, 2013, 06:31 PM	#12
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	According to the late Dick Trent of Pedersoli, Uberti marked rifles are built entirely by Pedersoli, so Uberti and Pedersoli are one and the same rifle. That said, I have a Shiloh .45-70, a Uberti .45-70, and a Uberti .45-120. The Shiloh is the prettiest of the bunch, not surprisingly, but the Uberti .45-70 slightly, but consistently, outshoots it. On a cool, calm day, it will shoot sub-2MOA @ 500 yards quite consistently, and I've had many, many groups under 8", with my best being 3 3/8". I've only shot a sub-4" group twice @ 500 yards, and there was nobody to see it either time. This with a cast 535 grain Postell bullet and Swiss 1 1/2 black powder. __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

May 27, 2013, 07:06 PM	#13
freedom475 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountains of Montana Posts: 292	I really like my Pedersoli....it has served me very well! Have killed elk, mule deer, whitetail, antelope, bear, tons of gophers, a couple badgers and a coyote with it....Oh yeah, and one Buffalo I have around 15,000 rounds through mine. At about 12,000 she broke a firing pin and then just the other day she broke her lever spring. (had to use a rubber band for a few days while waiting for the new spring to arrive) The bore is polished pretty smooth and it has a little pitting, but it will still shoot into less than 2" at 300yards with 2ff Kik or Swiss 1 1/2 and the Postell 535gr. off the bench. __________________ Maker of Horse Tack and Cowboy Gear. www.7xleather.com Mister, why do you carry a 45? "Cause Sam Colt don't make a 46." Last edited by freedom475; May 29, 2013 at 07:38 AM.

May 27, 2013, 11:11 PM	#14
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Freedom and JBar Two good posts. I will never shoot mine as seriously as you do. I have not been shooting for such a long time because of weather and travel requirements that I almost forgot which end the bullets comes out of. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

May 28, 2013, 12:39 AM	#15
Chowmif16 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2012 Location: Huntsville, Utah Posts: 106	Pedersoli Doc, I have a Pedersoli Sharps 45-70 I bought in 1996 for $1200. I love it to death, and you got a good deal. I haven't shot it as much as I should have, but I have learned loads from it. I know you are working on a Trapdoor as well. I have an original Trapdoor rifle from 1884 also. If you have not done much LRBPCR, then get the books from Paul Matthews. There is so much good information there, and I have used that information for my .45 Colt Black Powder loads as well ( which I know you are loading). I would be interested to hear of your progress with the Sharps. I have found that with this rifle that consistency in every step is the key to success. I cast my own bullets at about 520 gr, and weight every single one. I have gone back and forth between using a grease cookie or not, and wiping between every shot or not. Unfortunately, since I have so many other projects in line, I have not settled on a great load for it yet. If I do, I'll let you know. Cheers, Chowmi __________________ Chowmi

May 28, 2013, 04:52 AM	#16
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Chowmif16 Thanks for the wink back. I'll check out the book. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

May 28, 2013, 07:59 AM	#17
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Pedersoli has a good reputation among imports. That seems not a bad price these days, IF YOU WANT A CARBINE. I don't. A friend has a Sharps conversion .50-70 that is fun for three or four shots. I watched Woody shooting one at the pigs for fun and concluded that 300 yards is a long shot for a carbine. I'd want a 30" barrel and a shotgun butt. Wait, that is what I do have. But buy what you want, even if it costs more to start. It will still be less expensive than trading around later if the Good Deal is not a Good Shooter.

May 28, 2013, 10:10 AM	#18
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Jim.... I'll prolly never shoot more than 200 yards with this rifle. It fits with the other rifles I have which essentially have the appearance of cavalry carbines post ACW. Next stop is a Remington Rolling Block in .45-70. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

May 28, 2013, 09:09 PM	#19
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	I owned a Shiloh Sharps and a Pedersoli at the same time. the SS was a good put together gun, but the used Pedersoli could out shoot it any day of the week. I sold the expensive SS and kept the Pedersoli.

May 29, 2013, 12:07 AM	#20
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Old Dragoon In the immortal words of Peter Boyle,"Holy Crap!" I would not have expected to read that. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

May 29, 2013, 07:36 AM	#21
freedom475 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountains of Montana Posts: 292	I have read that type of review quite often....I know the Shiloh has a much deeper and sharper cut to it's rifling. Wonder if these big gooves cut into the bullet and hinder its' accuracy. The really large cuts have to distort the tail of the bullet and cause more spin-drift. After comparing my Pedersoli rifling to the Shiloh, I called Lee Shaver to have a new barrel installed, but he convinced me...."If it ain't broke, Don't fix it" I can't believe how subtle my rifling is and it still shoots well, even with Black Powder. The riling is easily 2 to 3 times more proud in the Shiloh. __________________ Maker of Horse Tack and Cowboy Gear. www.7xleather.com Mister, why do you carry a 45? "Cause Sam Colt don't make a 46."

May 29, 2013, 09:11 AM	#22
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Freedom Good point. The rifling in my trapdoor is quite shallow as well. It shoots better than I can measure. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.