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Old May 5, 2018, 02:25 AM   #26
hdwhit
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Quote:
Murby wrote:
Assuming a security scenario, would you prefer a thermal sight or a night vision sight?
For security use, I would pay the money and get the FLIR unit - if I bought anything at all.

That said, I would also spend the additional money to engage an attorney well-versed in my state's self-defense laws to tell me when and under what circumstances I could legally use the thing.

What kind of "self-defense" scenario are you envisioning? In general, once you have reason to believe there is someone on your property, as soon as you pick up your gun (with thermal sight attached) and go out the door looking for the intruder, you become the aggressor.

A few states (most notably Texas) have laws allowing the use of deadly force to protect personal property, but unless you're defending a herd of cattle from being stolen after midnight even the Texas statute (regarded by many as most permissive) becomes so complex that you really need to hold the court hearing before you pull the trigger.
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Old May 5, 2018, 02:37 AM   #27
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Quote:
Onward Allusion wrote:
Keep in mind, if you nail a prospective BG at 100 yards, there's going to be questions and paperwork
"Questions and paperwork"?

Intentionally pick up a rifle with a night-vision scope and go out onto your property with the intent of engaging an intruder - up to and including the possible application of deadly force (why else did you take the rifle?) - is answering an RSVP to a criminal trial, a civil lawsuit and a bankruptcy hearing.

Everyone I have known who actually pulled the trigger in a so-called self-defense situation (except me) has been ruined - criminally, financially, socially, and/or professionally - by it.
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Old May 5, 2018, 02:12 PM   #28
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^^^
Much too much reverence.
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Old May 5, 2018, 08:54 PM   #29
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
$4,000 ?
Our thermal weapons sights cost $15,000, a really top end civilian, entry level military grade weapons sight is about $12,000 now.
Yeah, I remember when the Raytheon W1000 320 resolution 3x lunchbox thermal weapon sight was considered top end military gear and cost $35K. You can get the same performance today for $2800 with a Puslar Apex XQ50.

I don't know any top end "civilian" thermal gear that is significantly better at $12K as it is at $8k for the Trijicon IR Hunter MK3 4.5x 60mm and there is some very good thermal that costs a lot less.

I know the ground pounders we take hunting are impressed with the thermal gear we let them use given it was better than anything that they were using in Afghanistan on their rifles. No doubt the military has some really good stuff, but it isn't stuff the average Joe is packing.
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Old May 6, 2018, 02:05 AM   #30
geologist
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I went with a PVS-14 and and IR laser and IR light on my rifle.

The advantage it gives in the dark is amazing. I try to train in passive mode so I don't use the IR light and only turn on the IR laser for a second or two.



I aso have a FLIR Scout PS240. I use it handheld to scan and detect. It's resolution is pretty coarse and the refresh rate is far too slow but for detection it is good and then the PVS14 would take over.

I mounted it on my 10/22 for fun and it shoots to the center of the view finder at 10 yards with this setup so if the target is close and it's very dark it'll do.

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Old May 6, 2018, 03:27 PM   #31
Murby
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I'm currently looking at the XQ50 and comparing features and prices to other manufacturers models.
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Old May 7, 2018, 08:34 AM   #32
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Which XQ50, the Pulsar Apex or Pulsar Trail? I am actually pro staff for a vendor and have used both. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
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Old May 7, 2018, 11:34 PM   #33
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Probably the XQ50 Trail but I'm not sure yet.. just going by youtube video's.

What's the difference between them?
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Old May 17, 2018, 03:58 PM   #34
Fishbed77
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Quote:
A bright red silhouette is unmistakable, no amount of outer camouflage or debris can hide the heat.
And how do you know if that bright red silhouette is an actual threat or a neighbor's kid playing hide and seek at night? Or a natural resource officer going about his/her duties?

The scenario being described here does not sound like one that can be easily defended as self-defense.
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Old May 17, 2018, 06:03 PM   #35
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
The scenario being described here does not sound like one that can be easily defended as self-defense.
I don't recall any particular law that says you must identify your target with 100% accuracy before a self defense action can be considered self defense. The only way he would be in trouble is if he hurts the wrong person. If he correctly determines the silhouette is a threat and uses the level of defensive action allowed by law for the level of threat, there won't be a problem. Should you be 100% confident the threat is a threat? Yes, but there isn't a legal stipulation for this.

With that said, he is wrong in saying no amount of outer camouflage or debris can hide the heat. Lots of things hide the heat. I see that all the time when hunting animals. I see it in my fellow hunters in winter time. The more layers they have on, the more their heat signature is hidden from thermal.

By describing the bright red silhouette, it sounds like he is describing a feature present on FLIR's "intsalert palette where the hottest portions of objects are designated as red. I find that it tends to create a more confusing image. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoOBVqjgxfw
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