12 v 20 - Page 2

FITASC · October 16, 2017, 09:30 AM

No need to calculate lead.........let your eyes guide your hands and stop looking at the bead - too many focus on the bead and the result is a miss.

stuckinthe60s · October 17, 2017, 08:51 AM

totally agree.

wild cat mccane · October 26, 2017, 07:17 AM

Actually, if there is a mathematical reason for it being more accurate, I am not so full of myself that I would say I don't want to see it.

If true, I would love to read about it for my own knowledge.

briandg · October 28, 2017, 04:11 PM

The reason that the guy gave in the extensive article he wrote was that the same load of shot in a twelve gauge was a rounder, bulbous and short column, and sure, if that pattern struck dead center it will smoke the clay. The twenty has a longer column. If it has the same pattern diameter on paper,in reality, the long column functions to m make the pattern into a longer oval, when the time of passing through that longer column is extended.

Two things to consider. This was written when shells had paper hulls, cork wads, and a paper cap sealing the opening. Maybe even a roll crimp with cork overshot wad.

Second thing to remember is that the guy earned his bread by writing. If he wrote something interesting, even if it was stupid, he earned a week of food and a mortgage payment. I've read articles that said that a .32 was a fantastic carry piece, I've read that the .270 was better than the .458.

If people didn't write some controversial nonsense that gets attention and readership, magazine sales flag, sponsorship drops,ad revenues decline, people don't care. A lie always manages to benefit someone, or there would no reason to lie.

Carolina65 · October 31, 2017, 10:56 AM

I just made the switch, for upland hunting only because of the physical requirements and my aging body, to go to the twenty. I also need to stay within reasonable proximity to a specific amount of recoil. But I am willing to make the concession that is necessary regarding max distance to the bird since my recoil tolerance with a six pound O/U will require that I go to 7/8 ounce payload. If my shooting accuracy for some reason improved with the twenty then I could go back to the longer distance to the bird; but it didn't unfortunately. I could also go down in shot size to get the same density at the longer distance, but this also must be thought through carefully. We owe it to the animals. Lots to think about friend. I think that the bottom line is that it IS A CONCESSION unless one of the above mentioned other variables (such as skill level suddenly improving with a smaller gauge) compensates. Keep that in mind.

**44 AMP** · October 31, 2017, 11:15 AM

Quote:

,in reality, the long column functions to m make the pattern into a longer oval, when the time of passing through that longer column is extended.

While this is true, there is another side to that coin. At the instant of contact, the longer shot column has fewer pellets in the same plane as the target. This may not matter shooting clays, and its not something you can see on a pattern board. But it is something that can matter when shooting live birds.

I don't have any 20ga guns, not because of any dislike for the round, but simply because I've been shooting the 12ga since the late 1960s, and for what I do, there's no advantage to me in the 20ga.

Also, by not having any 20ga ammo, there is no possibility of the dreaded 12/20 burst!

Virginian · October 31, 2017, 02:55 PM

I now shoot a 20 at just about everything but waterfowl. I do so because I like to. I shoot for the same reason. I used to love to shoot the 28 as well, but I pared down my selection to ease the burden on those left when I leave this world.

RMcL · October 31, 2017, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmr40

*One ounce of shot through a 12 ga. barrel will have a shorter shot column with fewer pellets deformed by contact with the barrel and give better patterns and more hits than 1 oz of shot through a 20 ga. barrel.

The introduction of plastic shot cups and one piece plastic wads in the early 1960s has mitigaged any bore to shot contact advantages of the 12 gauge over the 20 gauge. The exception is found in heavy factory loads that use plastic wads with shot cups too short to fully protect the larger payload.

FITASC · November 1, 2017, 12:26 PM

The 20 will have the longer shotstring. It will also typically have a little more setback which can deform some additional pellets resulting in a few more flyers in the pattern. If you want a great pattern from a lightweight gun shooting 1oz loads, get a 16 gauge built on the 20 frame - problem solved!

October 16, 2017, 09:30 AM	#26
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	No need to calculate lead.........let your eyes guide your hands and stop looking at the bead - too many focus on the bead and the result is a miss. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

October 17, 2017, 08:51 AM	#27
stuckinthe60s Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2017 Location: Va., Ct., Mo.. Posts: 877	totally agree. __________________ Retired Military Aviation Former Member Navy Shooting Team Distinguished Pistol Shot,NRA Shotgun/Pistol Instructor NSSA All American, Skeet/Trap Range Owner

October 28, 2017, 04:11 PM	#29
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	The reason that the guy gave in the extensive article he wrote was that the same load of shot in a twelve gauge was a rounder, bulbous and short column, and sure, if that pattern struck dead center it will smoke the clay. The twenty has a longer column. If it has the same pattern diameter on paper,in reality, the long column functions to m make the pattern into a longer oval, when the time of passing through that longer column is extended. Two things to consider. This was written when shells had paper hulls, cork wads, and a paper cap sealing the opening. Maybe even a roll crimp with cork overshot wad. Second thing to remember is that the guy earned his bread by writing. If he wrote something interesting, even if it was stupid, he earned a week of food and a mortgage payment. I've read articles that said that a .32 was a fantastic carry piece, I've read that the .270 was better than the .458. If people didn't write some controversial nonsense that gets attention and readership, magazine sales flag, sponsorship drops,ad revenues decline, people don't care. A lie always manages to benefit someone, or there would no reason to lie. __________________ None.

October 31, 2017, 02:55 PM	#32
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	I now shoot a 20 at just about everything but waterfowl. I do so because I like to. I shoot for the same reason. I used to love to shoot the 28 as well, but I pared down my selection to ease the burden on those left when I leave this world. __________________ What could have happened... did.

November 1, 2017, 12:26 PM	#34
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	The 20 will have the longer shotstring. It will also typically have a little more setback which can deform some additional pellets resulting in a few more flyers in the pattern. If you want a great pattern from a lightweight gun shooting 1oz loads, get a 16 gauge built on the 20 frame - problem solved! __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

October 26, 2017, 07:17 AM	#28
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,623	Actually, if there is a mathematical reason for it being more accurate, I am not so full of myself that I would say I don't want to see it. If true, I would love to read about it for my own knowledge.

October 31, 2017, 10:56 AM	#30
Carolina65 Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2017 Posts: 8	I just made the switch, for upland hunting only because of the physical requirements and my aging body, to go to the twenty. I also need to stay within reasonable proximity to a specific amount of recoil. But I am willing to make the concession that is necessary regarding max distance to the bird since my recoil tolerance with a six pound O/U will require that I go to 7/8 ounce payload. If my shooting accuracy for some reason improved with the twenty then I could go back to the longer distance to the bird; but it didn't unfortunately. I could also go down in shot size to get the same density at the longer distance, but this also must be thought through carefully. We owe it to the animals. Lots to think about friend. I think that the bottom line is that it IS A CONCESSION unless one of the above mentioned other variables (such as skill level suddenly improving with a smaller gauge) compensates. Keep that in mind.