Question of reloading the CM 6.5

Mr. Mike · July 12, 2018, 06:00 PM

Starting out reloading my Creedmoor 6.5. Powders on hand IMR 4064 and Varget. Several LR primers but use mostly CCI 200. Plan on using 140 gr and something smaller for varmints and target. Been reading that H4350 may be a better choice in powder? So, I thought I would ask some of you that are into reloading to share your pet loads, bullets type and weight and so on. I do plan on experimenting on different load data to see which this new gun prefers but with all the many choices out there perhaps a few short cuts are in order. I doubt that I will go out beyond 500 yards now but who knows about the future.
Thank you for any info that will get me started on this long range stuff.
Mike

Wendyj · July 12, 2018, 06:08 PM

H4350 was made for this cartridge from my results loading it. 500 only a good starting point as it will do a 1000 easy. Never used the powders you have in hand with it but they done great with my 308 with 175 grain and over.

ed308 · July 12, 2018, 08:10 PM

I've had better luck with Varget compared to 4350. But 4350 seems to the best powder from what I've. Just not in my barrel.

Charlie98 · July 12, 2018, 08:38 PM

I originally loaded my first batch of 6.5CM with IMR4064, thinking it would be ideal... but after reading more about it, everyone gushes over the 4350's and RL17. I couldn't find a pound of any 4350, so I bought IMR4451, one of the new Enduron powders, and it seems to be working well, under a Sierra 142grn. I don't have any chrono data for any of my 6.5CM loads.

hooligan1 · July 13, 2018, 06:37 AM

I have tried RL 17 with 120's, IMR 4451 with 140's, H4350 with 130 grn Berger VLD's, and I have a real decent hunting load with 140 grn Accubonds and RL 19, all these powders except for h4350 were easy to get.

Jakeway · July 13, 2018, 07:55 AM

I've gotten good results with my 6.5 CM with H4350, IMR4350, and H4895. Bullets used were 85 gr, 90 gr, 120 gr, and 140 gr. I was able to quickly get MOA or better with all bullet weights and all of these powders. The hunting load I settled on is the 140 gr HotCor bullet with H4350 powder at about a half grain under the published max. I chose the H4350 for a bit better temperature insensitivity. (I often target shoot in the mid 90's, and it gets well below freezing in deer season.)

I've got about 4 lbs of H4350, so that should keep me set for my Creedmoor for awhile. I use IMR4350 in my 260 REM, since that particular gun is a Ruger Compact I use mostly in heavier woods tree stand hunting. (Temp sensitivity not an issue in short range applications). I use the H4895 primarily in reduced loads for my grandkids to shoot.

Bfglowkey · July 13, 2018, 11:01 AM

H4350 makes for easy load development in most 6.5 Creedmoor rifles. That said it is the standard not the sole horse in the race. RL 17 makes for some really good loads when paired with Hornady 140g HPBT match pills. Nosler 140RDFs also did very good with RL 17. Varget is great when using the lighter bullets but I am currently loving my development using RL 16. It also is being very cooperative with my 6mm Creedmoor loads. Pair 16 with the Barnes 140g Match burners and the results are very very nice ( using Hornady brass and S&B large primers). I will let you find your charge weight but start around 39.6 and go up from there. The nodes are huge and very consistent velocities and Sd/ES numbers

jmr40 · July 13, 2018, 12:12 PM

If you want to shoot the heavier 140-147 gr bullets H4350 is going to be a lot better than what you've been using. Those powders are probably pretty good with 130 gr and under.

I have a decent supply of H4350 and that is all I've used so far, but haven't seen any on shelves in a while. If I get much lower I'll have to try something else unless I can find some more.

From what I've read some substitutes that get a lot of praise are RL17 and Ramshot Hunter. But the one that seems to be the best replacement if H4350 isn't available is IMR4451. It is a fairly new powder and I've seen it a lot on store shelves. While I've not had to try it yet it does come highly recommended for the 6.5 CM and heavy bullets.

hooligan1 · July 14, 2018, 09:23 AM

jmr40, I have had decent results with 4451, and in other cartridges also, burner in
270 win. with 130 Btips.
RL19 works real nice with 140 grn Accubonds.

Rimfire5 · July 15, 2018, 09:27 AM

Some data with different powders compared to IMR4451 using a Savage 12 Long Range Precision bolt action with a 26 inch barrel and a Precision Accu-Trigger set at 1 lb 2 oz.
------------------------------- Percent Larger Groups
-------Bullet & Weight-------IMR4350----RL-17 -----IMR4064
Sierra TMK 130 gr ------------1.33% ----9.04%
Hornady ELD-M 140 gr -------7.91% ---13.53%
Sierra SMK 142 gr -----------13.42% ---11.65% ----36.33%
Hornady ELD-M 147 gr ------41.66%

Note the performance decrease as the bullet weight increases.
This rifle really likes IMR4451.

Don Fischer · July 15, 2018, 10:30 AM

never loaded for a 6.5 CM but if I was to powder's I'd try are IMR 4350, IMR 4064, H414. I use them in the 243 and 308 both with good results. Might try W748, Varget, RL-19 and BLC/2 also.

Bfglowkey · July 15, 2018, 03:56 PM

Winchester 760 might be better for the heavier pills then 748

hounddawg · July 15, 2018, 05:22 PM

Never loaded for 6.5 CM but since it has just a smidge less case capacity 1gn) than the 260 Rem the same powders may work in the CM as well.

In my 260's I found the 120 - 123 grain SMKs liked Varget, IMR 4350, and H4350. For the 140 SMKs and Nosler CC's H4350, 4831SC and IMR 4350 were all good but my favorite is the 142 SMK and 4831SC.

Last week a guy I know just bought a Tikka in 6.5 CM and that guy really knows his stuff when it comes to load development, it will be interesting to see what he comes up with

7Magaficionado · July 15, 2018, 11:54 PM

I've had good luck using IMR 4451 with both 140g Nosler Partitions and 143g Hornady ELD-X. H4350 works reasonably well, but IMR 4451 works better for me especially with higher charges (i.e. just under book max). YMMV.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

MarkCO · July 16, 2018, 11:20 AM

IMR 4451, Hunter, Varget, H4350, H4831SC, H1000.

For less than 500 yards, I would look at the one you can get the most easily locally. H4350 is the darling, so it is hard to find. Temperature stability is probably the biggest reason long range folks like H4350. With some other powders, like R17, you have to shoot at the temperatures you are likely to shoot with a chrono and figure out the data and input that in some type of solver, or make charts for it. Density Altitude charts won't do it all, since temp of the powder is the driving factor. Less than 500 yards, the changes are going to have a minimal impact, whereas at 1000 yards, it can be several inches. I would venture to say that most of the people using H4350 could switch to R17 or one of the others and they would see no difference. But, if you change more than 10 fps, you might leave your velocity node which can impact harmonics and change your exterior ballistics which, again only out far, can change POI, group size.

We shoot mostly H4831SC for hunting loads and Hunter for target loads. Hunter meters like water and so I like it for loading thousands of rounds a year and not having to trickle charges. I have not tried IMR 4451 long enough to give a full endorsement, but the one pound of it I ran did great.

I keep a 8# jug of H4350 on the shelf that is now 5 years old, just in case, but so far, I have been happy enough with other powders to not have to use the stash.

Bfglowkey · July 16, 2018, 12:44 PM

RL 17 gave me a decent velocity boost over H4350. So be wary swapping to that if you already are working a H4350 load. RL 16 is quite a bit better in terms of temp insensitive compared to 17....so far. I loaded and tested in the San Antonio heat and am shooting them now in Canada where its 30 degrees cooler and my POI/Velocities are spot on still. Winter time might be a different story but 30 degree swing is still decent showing. RL 17 loads are much different up here. H4350 are fairly similar to my 100 degree day testing as well.

Mr. Mike · July 16, 2018, 03:35 PM

Well, I certainly do thank one and all who provided me with so much information I'll be going over it for quite some time. I started reloading in the early 1970's due to my living in a far distant Alaskan bush station...and the gun control act of 1968 (nothing thru the mail) Back then things were not so complicated, just a few powders and bullets? Anyway, I did manage to get some H4350 so I guess I am all set to start. Used some factory 140 gr for sight in and got decent grouping out two 200 yards. Now, picked some 100 gr to see what can be done in the varmint area (a new venture for me). I do plan on extending the ranges out to the 5-600 range soon and perhaps beyond.
Again, wish to thank all who volunteered this needed info to get me started.

Bfglowkey · July 16, 2018, 06:05 PM

Enjoy the experiment and keep us posted on your loads

Gunnydan · July 28, 2018, 06:26 PM

So I have a question but I think I know the answer. So I am using lapua brass for my creedmore. Unfired(new) and I get repeated MV(5 FPS / 5 shots) After it’s been fired and fl resized the MV is everywhere(40 FPS / 5 shots). So could this be due to the brass is being shot out of two different 6.5 creedmore rifles even though I am full length resizing? I tested this and it seems to be so. Input?

Charlie98 · July 29, 2018, 10:18 AM

Gunnydan, did you resize the new brass prior to it's first loading?

RC20 · July 29, 2018, 12:18 PM

I think I4451 is equivalent to 4350 with temp stability and cleaners.

I can't get it in 8 lb jugs though.

Bfglowkey · July 29, 2018, 02:33 PM

I noticed this as well when I resized my 6.5 Hornady brass to 6mm vs the once fired Hornady brass 6mm . I thought it was the neck down process but perhaps it could be the different Chambers putting this own "fingerprint" on the brass. I would think that FL reaize wouldn't allow this but maybe someone more experienced then either one of us could comment?

hooligan1 · July 29, 2018, 04:28 PM

RC20 I think 4451 is a tad slower than IMR 4350. According to my testing anyways.

Don Fischer · July 30, 2018, 09:31 AM

Hard telling what you rifle will like until you try it. For 308 case's I like 4064, Varget, R-19, H414, H 4350 and IMR 4350. The powders I like in the 308 are about this speed but then some a bit faster too, 30 cal bullet's. In my 243's I like H4350, H414, Varget. Seem's they all work. About all your changing is bullet size, 6.5 CM case is about the same size as the 308 if I heard right.

Rimfire5 · July 30, 2018, 03:46 PM

RC20
I've gone through two 8-lb jugs of IMR4451.
Got them both through Brownell's - both were ordered on separate 1 cent Hazmat fee offers.

I also just got an 8-lb jug of IMR 4350 from them with the same kind of offer.

The 8-lb jugs are available, just probably not available in your local store.

July 12, 2018, 06:00 PM	#1
Mr. Mike Member Join Date: November 27, 2011 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 26	Question of reloading the CM 6.5 Starting out reloading my Creedmoor 6.5. Powders on hand IMR 4064 and Varget. Several LR primers but use mostly CCI 200. Plan on using 140 gr and something smaller for varmints and target. Been reading that H4350 may be a better choice in powder? So, I thought I would ask some of you that are into reloading to share your pet loads, bullets type and weight and so on. I do plan on experimenting on different load data to see which this new gun prefers but with all the many choices out there perhaps a few short cuts are in order. I doubt that I will go out beyond 500 yards now but who knows about the future. Thank you for any info that will get me started on this long range stuff. Mike __________________ All behavior is chosen!

July 12, 2018, 06:08 PM	#2
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	H4350 was made for this cartridge from my results loading it. 500 only a good starting point as it will do a 1000 easy. Never used the powders you have in hand with it but they done great with my 308 with 175 grain and over. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

July 12, 2018, 08:38 PM	#4
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	I originally loaded my first batch of 6.5CM with IMR4064, thinking it would be ideal... but after reading more about it, everyone gushes over the 4350's and RL17. I couldn't find a pound of any 4350, so I bought IMR4451, one of the new Enduron powders, and it seems to be working well, under a Sierra 142grn. I don't have any chrono data for any of my 6.5CM loads. __________________ _______________ "I have this pistol pointed at your heart!" "That is my least vulnerable spot."

July 13, 2018, 06:37 AM	#5
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,586	I have tried RL 17 with 120's, IMR 4451 with 140's, H4350 with 130 grn Berger VLD's, and I have a real decent hunting load with 140 grn Accubonds and RL 19, all these powders except for h4350 were easy to get. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

July 13, 2018, 07:55 AM	#6
Jakeway Member Join Date: October 12, 2017 Location: Near Nashville, TN Posts: 62	I've gotten good results with my 6.5 CM with H4350, IMR4350, and H4895. Bullets used were 85 gr, 90 gr, 120 gr, and 140 gr. I was able to quickly get MOA or better with all bullet weights and all of these powders. The hunting load I settled on is the 140 gr HotCor bullet with H4350 powder at about a half grain under the published max. I chose the H4350 for a bit better temperature insensitivity. (I often target shoot in the mid 90's, and it gets well below freezing in deer season.) I've got about 4 lbs of H4350, so that should keep me set for my Creedmoor for awhile. I use IMR4350 in my 260 REM, since that particular gun is a Ruger Compact I use mostly in heavier woods tree stand hunting. (Temp sensitivity not an issue in short range applications). I use the H4895 primarily in reduced loads for my grandkids to shoot. Last edited by Jakeway; July 13, 2018 at 10:17 AM.

July 12, 2018, 08:10 PM	#3
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	I've had better luck with Varget compared to 4350. But 4350 seems to the best powder from what I've. Just not in my barrel.

July 13, 2018, 11:01 AM	#7
Bfglowkey Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2018 Posts: 302	H4350 makes for easy load development in most 6.5 Creedmoor rifles. That said it is the standard not the sole horse in the race. RL 17 makes for some really good loads when paired with Hornady 140g HPBT match pills. Nosler 140RDFs also did very good with RL 17. Varget is great when using the lighter bullets but I am currently loving my development using RL 16. It also is being very cooperative with my 6mm Creedmoor loads. Pair 16 with the Barnes 140g Match burners and the results are very very nice ( using Hornady brass and S&B large primers). I will let you find your charge weight but start around 39.6 and go up from there. The nodes are huge and very consistent velocities and Sd/ES numbers

July 13, 2018, 12:12 PM	#8
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	If you want to shoot the heavier 140-147 gr bullets H4350 is going to be a lot better than what you've been using. Those powders are probably pretty good with 130 gr and under. I have a decent supply of H4350 and that is all I've used so far, but haven't seen any on shelves in a while. If I get much lower I'll have to try something else unless I can find some more. From what I've read some substitutes that get a lot of praise are RL17 and Ramshot Hunter. But the one that seems to be the best replacement if H4350 isn't available is IMR4451. It is a fairly new powder and I've seen it a lot on store shelves. While I've not had to try it yet it does come highly recommended for the 6.5 CM and heavy bullets. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

July 14, 2018, 09:23 AM	#9
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,586	jmr40, I have had decent results with 4451, and in other cartridges also, burner in 270 win. with 130 Btips. RL19 works real nice with 140 grn Accubonds. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

July 15, 2018, 09:27 AM	#10
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 923	Some data with different powders compared to IMR4451 using a Savage 12 Long Range Precision bolt action with a 26 inch barrel and a Precision Accu-Trigger set at 1 lb 2 oz. ------------------------------- Percent Larger Groups -------Bullet & Weight-------IMR4350----RL-17 -----IMR4064 Sierra TMK 130 gr ------------1.33% ----9.04% Hornady ELD-M 140 gr -------7.91% ---13.53% Sierra SMK 142 gr -----------13.42% ---11.65% ----36.33% Hornady ELD-M 147 gr ------41.66% Note the performance decrease as the bullet weight increases. This rifle really likes IMR4451. Last edited by Rimfire5; July 15, 2018 at 09:36 AM.

July 15, 2018, 10:30 AM	#11
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	never loaded for a 6.5 CM but if I was to powder's I'd try are IMR 4350, IMR 4064, H414. I use them in the 243 and 308 both with good results. Might try W748, Varget, RL-19 and BLC/2 also.

July 15, 2018, 03:56 PM	#12
Bfglowkey Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2018 Posts: 302	Winchester 760 might be better for the heavier pills then 748

July 15, 2018, 05:22 PM	#13
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	Never loaded for 6.5 CM but since it has just a smidge less case capacity 1gn) than the 260 Rem the same powders may work in the CM as well. In my 260's I found the 120 - 123 grain SMKs liked Varget, IMR 4350, and H4350. For the 140 SMKs and Nosler CC's H4350, 4831SC and IMR 4350 were all good but my favorite is the 142 SMK and 4831SC. Last week a guy I know just bought a Tikka in 6.5 CM and that guy really knows his stuff when it comes to load development, it will be interesting to see what he comes up with __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; July 15, 2018 at 06:03 PM.

July 15, 2018, 11:54 PM	#14
7Magaficionado Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2017 Posts: 1	I've had good luck using IMR 4451 with both 140g Nosler Partitions and 143g Hornady ELD-X. H4350 works reasonably well, but IMR 4451 works better for me especially with higher charges (i.e. just under book max). YMMV. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

July 16, 2018, 11:20 AM	#15
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	IMR 4451, Hunter, Varget, H4350, H4831SC, H1000. For less than 500 yards, I would look at the one you can get the most easily locally. H4350 is the darling, so it is hard to find. Temperature stability is probably the biggest reason long range folks like H4350. With some other powders, like R17, you have to shoot at the temperatures you are likely to shoot with a chrono and figure out the data and input that in some type of solver, or make charts for it. Density Altitude charts won't do it all, since temp of the powder is the driving factor. Less than 500 yards, the changes are going to have a minimal impact, whereas at 1000 yards, it can be several inches. I would venture to say that most of the people using H4350 could switch to R17 or one of the others and they would see no difference. But, if you change more than 10 fps, you might leave your velocity node which can impact harmonics and change your exterior ballistics which, again only out far, can change POI, group size. We shoot mostly H4831SC for hunting loads and Hunter for target loads. Hunter meters like water and so I like it for loading thousands of rounds a year and not having to trickle charges. I have not tried IMR 4451 long enough to give a full endorsement, but the one pound of it I ran did great. I keep a 8# jug of H4350 on the shelf that is now 5 years old, just in case, but so far, I have been happy enough with other powders to not have to use the stash. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

July 16, 2018, 12:44 PM	#16
Bfglowkey Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2018 Posts: 302	RL 17 gave me a decent velocity boost over H4350. So be wary swapping to that if you already are working a H4350 load. RL 16 is quite a bit better in terms of temp insensitive compared to 17....so far. I loaded and tested in the San Antonio heat and am shooting them now in Canada where its 30 degrees cooler and my POI/Velocities are spot on still. Winter time might be a different story but 30 degree swing is still decent showing. RL 17 loads are much different up here. H4350 are fairly similar to my 100 degree day testing as well.

July 16, 2018, 03:35 PM	#17
Mr. Mike Member Join Date: November 27, 2011 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 26	Well, I certainly do thank one and all who provided me with so much information I'll be going over it for quite some time. I started reloading in the early 1970's due to my living in a far distant Alaskan bush station...and the gun control act of 1968 (nothing thru the mail) Back then things were not so complicated, just a few powders and bullets? Anyway, I did manage to get some H4350 so I guess I am all set to start. Used some factory 140 gr for sight in and got decent grouping out two 200 yards. Now, picked some 100 gr to see what can be done in the varmint area (a new venture for me). I do plan on extending the ranges out to the 5-600 range soon and perhaps beyond. Again, wish to thank all who volunteered this needed info to get me started. __________________ All behavior is chosen!

July 16, 2018, 06:05 PM	#18
Bfglowkey Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2018 Posts: 302	Enjoy the experiment and keep us posted on your loads

July 28, 2018, 06:26 PM	#19
Gunnydan Junior Member Join Date: July 28, 2018 Posts: 1	So I have a question but I think I know the answer. So I am using lapua brass for my creedmore. Unfired(new) and I get repeated MV(5 FPS / 5 shots) After it’s been fired and fl resized the MV is everywhere(40 FPS / 5 shots). So could this be due to the brass is being shot out of two different 6.5 creedmore rifles even though I am full length resizing? I tested this and it seems to be so. Input?

July 29, 2018, 10:18 AM	#20
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	Gunnydan, did you resize the new brass prior to it's first loading? __________________ _______________ "I have this pistol pointed at your heart!" "That is my least vulnerable spot."

July 29, 2018, 12:18 PM	#21
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I think I4451 is equivalent to 4350 with temp stability and cleaners. I can't get it in 8 lb jugs though. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

July 29, 2018, 02:33 PM	#22
Bfglowkey Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2018 Posts: 302	I noticed this as well when I resized my 6.5 Hornady brass to 6mm vs the once fired Hornady brass 6mm . I thought it was the neck down process but perhaps it could be the different Chambers putting this own "fingerprint" on the brass. I would think that FL reaize wouldn't allow this but maybe someone more experienced then either one of us could comment?

July 29, 2018, 04:28 PM	#23
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,586	RC20 I think 4451 is a tad slower than IMR 4350. According to my testing anyways. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

July 30, 2018, 09:31 AM	#24
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	Hard telling what you rifle will like until you try it. For 308 case's I like 4064, Varget, R-19, H414, H 4350 and IMR 4350. The powders I like in the 308 are about this speed but then some a bit faster too, 30 cal bullet's. In my 243's I like H4350, H414, Varget. Seem's they all work. About all your changing is bullet size, 6.5 CM case is about the same size as the 308 if I heard right.

July 30, 2018, 03:46 PM	#25
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 923	RC20 I've gone through two 8-lb jugs of IMR4451. Got them both through Brownell's - both were ordered on separate 1 cent Hazmat fee offers. I also just got an 8-lb jug of IMR 4350 from them with the same kind of offer. The 8-lb jugs are available, just probably not available in your local store.