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Old March 14, 2011, 12:58 AM   #1
calvinstoney
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Bolt stiff on sized cases

Okay guys, I'm about to pull my hair out here. I just spent the last three hours trying to figure out why my cases are stiff in the gun.

Tried to just neck size and determined I can't do that with the full length resized die(brain child I am). So figured I would do the full length resize on the cases. Half of the cases are stiff to get the bolt closed.

a. tried to raise the die a bit and use new once fired. One stiff still and one not.

b. tried factory adjust to touch shell plate at full stroke. Grabbed new once fired and sized. Still stiff bolt.

c. Went about 1/8 turn past touching and same thing. Have three of 8 cases that when colored with marker show rub on a slight ring that is visible just in front of the case head. Still nothing visibly looks like it is restricting; sure something is though.

d. Cut two cases 1/10 past minimum cut to free up space and still the same thing.

What's next for me to try. About to go buy all the extra guages, but still not sure that is going to help at this point.
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Old March 14, 2011, 01:05 AM   #2
Shoney
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calvinstoney

WELCOME TO TFL!

It's not clear in your post, but are the once fired cases from your weapon, or were they once fired from another weapon?

If they were not fired in your weapon, you need to completely resize all of them.
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Old March 14, 2011, 06:28 AM   #3
PA-Joe
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It would also help if we knew what caliber. Did you try the cases without a bullet in them to see if they would chamber? Some times you may have to double size them by shifting case 180 degrees in the holder. By the way you can neck size with your FL dies. Just screw the die out 1 or 2 turns and check for hitting the shoulder.
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Old March 14, 2011, 06:58 AM   #4
steve4102
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Quote:
c. Went about 1/8 turn past touching and same thing.
Not far enough, keep going until they chamber with ease. My RCBS directions say to screw to shell holder then 1/4 turn more.
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Old March 14, 2011, 08:36 AM   #5
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Ditto PA-Joe: What cartridge are we working with?
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Old March 14, 2011, 08:49 AM   #6
tim s
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It sounds likely that you've got a warm load and a somewhat large die. If this is the case you have two choices, cut back on the load or get a small base sizing die.
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Old March 14, 2011, 09:13 AM   #7
calvinstoney
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Sorry guys,
It's my new 270 wsm. The cases were fired in the gun on the range. This would be their second fire. They were new Winchester cartridges and I fired, reloaded them two days ago and fired them yesterday. Noticed slight resistance in the bolt and resized them last night on my reloader, first trying to do just the neck and noticed that it would not go all the way down the neck when screwed out two turns, so I tried to full length them to see if that would help.
All my work last night was with just the cases that I had fired yesterday. Nothing with bullets in them.
My load is 140 accubond with 65 R-22 burning a CCI 200 Primer. Got the load right off the powder company sight, except they used a 140 grain Speer soft point. Didn't think the bullet would make that much difference.
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Old March 14, 2011, 09:31 AM   #8
calvinstoney
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Just tried the case rotation and re-size times two and didn't make a difference.

Resized a brand new brass case and it chambers fine still.

Adjusted the die down until the ram is pretty much slightly hitting it and no help.
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Old March 14, 2011, 09:54 AM   #9
PA-Joe
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The ram should be touching the shell holder and then turn the die down 1/2 more turn. Some of the WSMs have very tight chambers what has worked is using some 400 or 600 grit sandpaper polish the top of the shell holder. Only takes 3-4 passes over the sandpaper. Do two passes and then resize a case and try chambering it. Do 2 more passes until the case chambers correctly.

Are you using the same brand of dies and shellholders?
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Old March 14, 2011, 09:59 AM   #10
IllinoisCoyoteHunter
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Are you trimming your brass after you full length resize?

I see you said you "cut" the cases...not sure if this is what you are talking about.
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Old March 14, 2011, 10:08 AM   #11
calvinstoney
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You guys rock!!

Turned in another 1/4 turn and then used 400 to nock the machine marks and number stamp down smooth on the shell holder and BAMM!!!

Bolt works slick as can be.

Now, if I can find where these scratches on the bullet are from I will be in the money.

Last edited by calvinstoney; March 14, 2011 at 10:35 AM.
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Old March 14, 2011, 10:52 AM   #12
F. Guffey
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You fired the cases Then went straight to neck sizing, when that did not work you went the 1/4 additional turn down .017 plus a little on a shell plate? not a shell holder and still the case whipped the press, what press are you using? after sizing and before lowering the ram did you measure the gap between the shell holder and die? When the case wins and whips the press the press flexes, the amount of failure to size can be measured with a feeler gage, I know it is cute to fire a case 5 times with neck sizing only then start over by full length sizing, me? I have never understood how that can happen, after firing 5 times it is impossible to start over, the case has been fired 5 times.

Back to the shell plate or shell holder, I believe it is cute to adjust the die off, near, close, on, below contact with the shell holder, the part that is impossible to understand why experienced reloaders are so hard headed (resistance to change) they refuse to consider the possibility the companion tool to the press does the same thing, meaning jacking up the case with a feeler gage between the deck of the shell holder and bottom of the case increases the amount of sizing by as much .012 thousands, I do not have problems sizing case that will not chamber after sizing. I do find it necessary to be creative when sizing cases for short chambers, most will grind and grind, sometimes it is the shell holder, other times it is the die but with the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage, the feeler gage eliminates the mindless grinding of dies and shell holders.

I am not an advocate turning everyone into consumers of new tools they may not need, I do believe reloaders should have a better understanding of what happens when the ram is raised and an understanding of what they have control of.

I do not have the luxury of changing components, a 140 grain bullet is not the same 140 grain bullet by another name and or manufacturer.

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Old March 14, 2011, 01:35 PM   #13
calvinstoney
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1. I had once fired cases.

2. I reloaded them with die set up as instructed in the Hornady instruction. I did not try chambering an empty case this first time loading. When I got to the range they were stiff to chamber, not real bad just stiff.

3. Fired 10 rounds, came home and cleaned cases up then tried to just neck size and then chambered to see the fit, they were stiff, so I went over to full sizing. After full sizing they were still stiff.

4. Trimmed cases to minimum to erase chance of length issue.

5. Adjusted press no less than 10 times trying to get it to chamber smoothly. Read on here the responses. Tried to rotate and size twice.

6. Final Step, listened to the experienced guys on here and went against my newbie fears and turned the die down another 1/4 turn and shaved the "Shell Holder" slightly with some 400 grit. Still binds it up slightly. Bingo Success.


I can see how a addition of material under the case head would do the same thing.
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Old March 14, 2011, 01:56 PM   #14
Doodlebugger45
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You came up with a solution that works. That's good. It might be that the shellholder was a bit too thick and you solved that. Or it might be that the die was a tiny bit too long and you basically solved that with the grinding of the shellholder also. It can happen sometimes. I usually resort to using a feeler gauge like F Guffey says because it's more precise than just grinding away "some" of the shell holder.

There is another possible cause of the basic problem though. When you run the cases into the FL sizer die, it decaps and re sizes. But then the expander ball gets pulled through the neck on its way out to make sure the neck hasn't been sized too small in diameter. Sometimes that expander button drags too much as it comes out and it actually pulls the shoulder back out a few thousandths, resulting in a case that is too long. Sometimes you are better off for certain die/case combos to decap with a Universal de-capper first and take out the decapper/expander pin from the FL die.
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Old March 14, 2011, 04:35 PM   #15
JerryM
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Even my RCBS Rock Chucker press springs slightly when I FLRS rifle cases. I found long ago that to FLRS I would screw the die until touching the shell holder then resize a case. When I would see the gap as a result of the press springing, I would adjust the die thaat amount.

I once had a thicker than normal case holder, and had to file it down some.

Contrary to what some experience, I never found that I could satisfactorily neck size with a FLRS die. I always bought a neck sizing die. That was better, and saved later re-adjusting of the FLRS die.

Regards,
Jerry
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Old March 14, 2011, 10:29 PM   #16
calvinstoney
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Thanks guys.

Not going to mess with neck only sizing. I will just full length, as it seems to be more consistant to me when using different batches of brass(Once fired compared to 4 times fired)

Was going to use a little roll crimp, but I think I will stay away from that as the case length should be exact on all rounds to do that function properly. I can't imgane the bullets moving in the case, and if they do then they won't go outside the length of the clip which is shorter than allowable COL for the chamber anyway;.
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