9mm for IPSC Production div.

p3ordie · September 3, 2002, 08:09 PM

Hello,
I will be going to a IPSC orientation class this weekend. I have a Beretta 96FS and a Ruger P89. I feel my Beretta grip is just a little too big for my hand, and as far a the Ruger goes I can't see compeating with it but I am more acurite with it than my Beretta. So I have been looking for another to start shooting with. Question: Do all rookies start in the production division? If so what would be a good production (9mm) pistol to start off with? I have approx. 600~700 to spend. I was looking at a springfield loaded, but would that put me up against people with 10 times the experience? Any advise would be greatly appreceiated.

p3ordie

WESHOOT2 · September 3, 2002, 08:34 PM

Don't buy nothin'....yet.
Take your Ruger, go shootin', have fun, and look around.
Ask questions (but take it easy).
Help out with break-down.
Watch what others use and do.

Do that for at least three matches.

Then, maybe, buy a different gun.

Okay, if you gotta spend some money buy an ultra-high-quality gun belt, probably 1.5" wide.
And good 'ears', and maybe some cool glasses.

What club?

444 · September 3, 2002, 08:37 PM

I am no IPSC expert, but I have shot some IPSC and have been in your shoes. First of all, have fun. For me, every time I shoot any competitive sport, I am out to win. However, keep in mind that this probably isn't going to happen until you gain more experience; point being, don't worry about having to shoot against people with 10x the experience. Just learn the rules, pay attention, and jump in the mix. If you keep at it, you will definitely get better. And who knows, you might surprise everybody and win the first time out ?
My opinion is, shoot what you got. At least for awhile. There are several reasons for this. One is that you may not even like IPSC. No sense in spending money until you decide this is something you are going to really enjoy. Then there is that experence thing again. Why not shoot a few matches, talk to the guys there, observe what they are shooting, maybe try some different stuff and then you can make a much more informed decision as to what you might want to buy. I know several times I have jumped into something like this with both feet only to discover I didn't have enough information to spend my money wisely.
I am not sure if most people start off in the production class or not. Again, I would imagine most people start off shooting something they already own.
I think you have two guns that are ideal for starting out. I personally shoot a Ruger P89 in both IPSC and IDPA. I got my P89 when a guy owed me money and didn't have it; he gave me a couple guns instead. I was never really attracted to the P89, but after shooting it for awhile I had to admit that what it lacked in looks, it made up for in reliability, and ruggedness. I had shot IPSC before with a 1911 and knew from my previous experience that I would be shooting a lot of ammo for practice. I wanted something that would take a beating and keep on ticking. I also wasn't using the P89 for anything else, so I figured, here is a good use for it. In it's class, I wouldn't say I am giving up much, if anything to the other shooters by using the P89.
This offends many people, and that isn't my intention. You can't buy a win. Winning is the result of lots of skill aquired by shooting a lot of matches and shooting a lot of practice. As you gain skill, you can certainly take advantage of features offered by the higher end guns, but for a long time, the guns you have will gain you the experience nessessary to become a competitive shooter.

p3ordie · September 3, 2002, 08:46 PM

WESHOOT2, 444,
Thanks for the advise. I just hope I can follow it. You know how the itch is when you have some money set aside for your next purchase

. The oreintation class is at SCHULTZ RESORT ROD AND GUN CLUB in WI. Thanks again,

p3ordie

WESHOOT2 · September 3, 2002, 09:06 PM

Gotta whole box full'a "itch".

Have fun.

mcrog · September 3, 2002, 10:16 PM

p3ordie,

You got itch?

Wait till your done with the match!

The Hook will be set!

Enjoy and be safe # 1

"load em Hot"

kbear38S · September 4, 2002, 07:52 AM

Quote:

If so what would be a good production (9mm) pistol to start off with? I have approx. 600~700 to spend. I was looking at a springfield loaded, but would that put me up against people with 10 times the experience?

Maybe implied in your statement but just to clarify, a Springfield Loaded is a single action gun and therefore not legal in Production Division. You would have to shoot it in Open, Limited, or Limited 10 though Limited 10 would be the optimum division for that gun. The 9mm cannot score major in USPSA though. 9mm is a great caliber for Production Division but none of the others because it can only score as Minor Power Factor which means your hits are 1 point down for everything but A hits.

If you are intent on getting a 1911 type gun, get a .40 or .45. If recoil is a problem, load your ammo at reduced (minor) power factor until your skills improve to the point where the recoil isn't a problem. Strength and body mass are not at issue at all. It is purely technique.

Your comment about shooting against people with 10 times the experience really doesn't apply to any division. You must join the USPSA and shoot four classifiers to gain classification. (Usually one per match though clubs sometimes offer Special Classifier Matches which have 4 classifer stages. A shooter would be classified as soon as the classifers are processed by the USPSA)

Typically you can expect to be classified in D Class though new shooters will occasionally score in C depending on skill and similar shooting experience.

Now here's the important part, when you shoot in a USPSA match, you are only competing against other shooters in your equipment division AND your class. In other words, if you buy the Springfield Loaded and shoot in Limited 10 as a D shooter, you are only competing against other Limited 10, D shooters. If you shoot your Ruger and classify in C, you'd be shooting in Production, C. That's the beauty of the equipment divisions and classifications. You're only competing against people with similar hardware and skills.

p3ordie · September 4, 2002, 06:38 PM

kbear38S,
Thank you for the info! I feel a little better now.

p3ordie

another okie · September 4, 2002, 06:40 PM

I have shot only three IPSC matches and hence am also a newbie. The advice above is absolutely correct - shoot what you've got a few times. There are probably two or three IPSC clubs within driving range, so you can shoot a lot if you want.

That said, and to answer your question, if I were buying one gun to use as much as possible in IPSC and IDPA it would be a Glock 35, the long-barrelled competition model in .40. You can make major with it, load it down for a soft-shooting minor, use in it Production or Limited 10 as it stands, or get some high caps and use it in Limited. And it works great for IDPA, too. If you really want a 9mm, the glock 34 will also work great for Production IPSC and SSP IPDA.

WESHOOT2 · September 5, 2002, 04:52 AM

.....Glocks aren't for me another okie's advice is very sound advice.

The long Glocks are good choices both for games and carry (shudder).

Labuyo · September 7, 2002, 11:34 PM

p3ordie, I shoot IPSC at that club regularly! in fact I'm going there tommorow for the monthly match.
Like what other's said stick with what you got and decide later. If you like production class, what you have is adequate/competitve enough. I for one, I f I had known that production class and limited 10 is coming, I would have stick with my Ruger p89 and Springfield P9 (my first guns). When I started IPSC(1994) there were no limited 10 and prod. class, just open and limited. I too plunked out some serious dough (for me at least, it was) and bought a trick out hi-cap 1911 (STI). Looking back, I should have spent the money on reloading instead, so I can shoot a lot and become truely competitive. I learned that like most other sports, expensive equipment doesn't buy skill, skill comes from practice and dedication. So, my advice is, instead of a new blaster, get a reloading set-up (if you haven't yet) and practice a lot! just my .02 cents

I hope to see you there tommorow! (I drive a Honda civic with Il. license plate) Good luck and safe shooting!

September 3, 2002, 08:09 PM	#1
p3ordie Member Join Date: November 18, 2001 Location: SE WI Posts: 49	9mm for IPSC Production div. Hello, I will be going to a IPSC orientation class this weekend. I have a Beretta 96FS and a Ruger P89. I feel my Beretta grip is just a little too big for my hand, and as far a the Ruger goes I can't see compeating with it but I am more acurite with it than my Beretta. So I have been looking for another to start shooting with. Question: Do all rookies start in the production division? If so what would be a good production (9mm) pistol to start off with? I have approx. 600~700 to spend. I was looking at a springfield loaded, but would that put me up against people with 10 times the experience? Any advise would be greatly appreceiated. p3ordie

September 3, 2002, 08:34 PM	#2
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	STOP! Don't buy nothin'....yet. Take your Ruger, go shootin', have fun, and look around. Ask questions (but take it easy). Help out with break-down. Watch what others use and do. Do that for at least three matches. Then, maybe, buy a different gun. Okay, if you gotta spend some money buy an ultra-high-quality gun belt, probably 1.5" wide. And good 'ears', and maybe some cool glasses. What club? __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 3, 2002, 08:37 PM	#3
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	I am no IPSC expert, but I have shot some IPSC and have been in your shoes. First of all, have fun. For me, every time I shoot any competitive sport, I am out to win. However, keep in mind that this probably isn't going to happen until you gain more experience; point being, don't worry about having to shoot against people with 10x the experience. Just learn the rules, pay attention, and jump in the mix. If you keep at it, you will definitely get better. And who knows, you might surprise everybody and win the first time out ? My opinion is, shoot what you got. At least for awhile. There are several reasons for this. One is that you may not even like IPSC. No sense in spending money until you decide this is something you are going to really enjoy. Then there is that experence thing again. Why not shoot a few matches, talk to the guys there, observe what they are shooting, maybe try some different stuff and then you can make a much more informed decision as to what you might want to buy. I know several times I have jumped into something like this with both feet only to discover I didn't have enough information to spend my money wisely. I am not sure if most people start off in the production class or not. Again, I would imagine most people start off shooting something they already own. I think you have two guns that are ideal for starting out. I personally shoot a Ruger P89 in both IPSC and IDPA. I got my P89 when a guy owed me money and didn't have it; he gave me a couple guns instead. I was never really attracted to the P89, but after shooting it for awhile I had to admit that what it lacked in looks, it made up for in reliability, and ruggedness. I had shot IPSC before with a 1911 and knew from my previous experience that I would be shooting a lot of ammo for practice. I wanted something that would take a beating and keep on ticking. I also wasn't using the P89 for anything else, so I figured, here is a good use for it. In it's class, I wouldn't say I am giving up much, if anything to the other shooters by using the P89. This offends many people, and that isn't my intention. You can't buy a win. Winning is the result of lots of skill aquired by shooting a lot of matches and shooting a lot of practice. As you gain skill, you can certainly take advantage of features offered by the higher end guns, but for a long time, the guns you have will gain you the experience nessessary to become a competitive shooter. __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.

September 3, 2002, 09:06 PM	#5
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	YEP Gotta whole box full'a "itch". Have fun. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 3, 2002, 10:16 PM	#6
mcrog Member Join Date: August 9, 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 45	IPSC Itch p3ordie, You got itch? Wait till your done with the match! The Hook will be set! Enjoy and be safe # 1 "load em Hot" __________________ McRog "Allways dbl. tap"

September 3, 2002, 08:46 PM	#4
p3ordie Member Join Date: November 18, 2001 Location: SE WI Posts: 49	WESHOOT2, 444, Thanks for the advise. I just hope I can follow it. You know how the itch is when you have some money set aside for your next purchase . The oreintation class is at SCHULTZ RESORT ROD AND GUN CLUB in WI. Thanks again, p3ordie

September 4, 2002, 06:38 PM	#8
p3ordie Member Join Date: November 18, 2001 Location: SE WI Posts: 49	kbear38S, Thank you for the info! I feel a little better now. p3ordie

September 4, 2002, 06:40 PM	#9
another okie Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2001 Posts: 273	I have shot only three IPSC matches and hence am also a newbie. The advice above is absolutely correct - shoot what you've got a few times. There are probably two or three IPSC clubs within driving range, so you can shoot a lot if you want. That said, and to answer your question, if I were buying one gun to use as much as possible in IPSC and IDPA it would be a Glock 35, the long-barrelled competition model in .40. You can make major with it, load it down for a soft-shooting minor, use in it Production or Limited 10 as it stands, or get some high caps and use it in Limited. And it works great for IDPA, too. If you really want a 9mm, the glock 34 will also work great for Production IPSC and SSP IPDA.

September 5, 2002, 04:52 AM	#10
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	EVEN THOUGH............ .....Glocks aren't for me another okie's advice is very sound advice. The long Glocks are good choices both for games and carry (shudder). __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 7, 2002, 11:34 PM	#11
Labuyo Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: somewhere in occupied Il. Posts: 223	p3ordie, I shoot IPSC at that club regularly! in fact I'm going there tommorow for the monthly match. Like what other's said stick with what you got and decide later. If you like production class, what you have is adequate/competitve enough. I for one, I f I had known that production class and limited 10 is coming, I would have stick with my Ruger p89 and Springfield P9 (my first guns). When I started IPSC(1994) there were no limited 10 and prod. class, just open and limited. I too plunked out some serious dough (for me at least, it was) and bought a trick out hi-cap 1911 (STI). Looking back, I should have spent the money on reloading instead, so I can shoot a lot and become truely competitive. I learned that like most other sports, expensive equipment doesn't buy skill, skill comes from practice and dedication. So, my advice is, instead of a new blaster, get a reloading set-up (if you haven't yet) and practice a lot! just my .02 cents I hope to see you there tommorow! (I drive a Honda civic with Il. license plate) Good luck and safe shooting!

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