Was I at Fault?

[Sharkbite]

If you are demanded to hand over your CCW without being given a practicable reason have your attorney come to the scene.

That is horrible advice.

As a former LEO, i can tell you emphatically, that will not work out well for you.
Here’s why. If i, as a LEO, stop you for a legal reason (say a traffic violation) and have a reasonable suspicion you are armed, i can search you for weapons (Terry vs. Ohio). It would be reasonable (if i chose) to remove that firearm from you until the stop is concluded. That falls under officer safety and the courts have given LEO’s great latitude in that regard.

So, on the side of the road, you plan on telling a LEO “ Nope, im not giving you my gun. We are going to sit here until my attny gets here”.

From the LEO’s point of view, he now has an armed individual refusing to comply with simple commands. That could get dicey.

How about you just be polite and comply with lawful orders.

Ive been stopped a few times after leaving the Sheriffs office. My hands go to 10 and 2 on the wheel. When they are at the window and ask for DL, Reg and ins, i say “Absolutely, but i have a permit and im carrying. What would you like me to do?”

This puts the stop on a more friendly basis and we usually end up chatting about guns and stuff. The one time i was asked to step out and the PO wanted to take my gun from me ( a crappy area, at night by a young female officer) i cooperated and things went smoothly from there.

Nothing good will come from being argumentative on the side of the road. Just be rational and allow the officer to do his/her job.

[ammo.crafter]

This is not argumentative, merely my right.

States differ greatly and in my state this is accepted.

My statement was pointed to the author advising handing over a handgun for an LEO to check out may create a dangerous condition and that the badge does not qualify a LEO as a firearm's expert and can lead to a potentially dangerous condition.

Would never disrespect any LEO as if I did I would have no friends.

[JohnKSa]

I don't know the law in PA, but in TX, an officer may legally temporarily disarm a permit holder during an interaction pretty much at the officer's discretion.

It would not, in my opinion, be smart to refuse to comply with an officer's lawful commands in the event that the officer decides to disarm you during an interaction.

State laws vary, but even where an officer doesn't have the right to disarm (which seems sort of unlikely), it would probably be smarter, in my opinion, not to get into an argument with an officer on the side of the road and try to put him off until your lawyer arrives on the scene.

My general advice to people as to how they should behave during traffic stops, is as follows:

1. Both of you are armed. Think about what you are doing and be smart.
2. Be polite. You will not win a "Who is the biggest jerk?" contest with a cop. They have a lot more experience and a lot more resources than you do.
3. Remember that a traffic stop is not a trial. You do NOT have the right to try your case by the side of the road. Take the ticket and collect any evidence that makes sense and then deal with it in court. Trying to argue your case by the side of the road as if it is a courtroom is a waste of your time and a waste of the cop's time.
4. If you don't want to answer questions, don't answer questions, but don't lie either. Keep rule #2 in mind, however.
5. Remember Wheaton's Law. The cop is at work performing a job that society has decided is necessary. Think about how you want to be treated when you are working and behave accordingly.

[zukiphile]

State laws vary, but even where an officer doesn't have the right to disarm (which seems sort of unlikely), it would probably be smarter, in my opinion, not to get into an argument with an officer on the side of the road and try to put him off until your lawyer arrives on the scene.

I don't know every lawyer, or how this works in every state.

However, I don't know any lawyer who would respond to a call from a client being detained with "Don't do what he says! I'll be right there!". Generally, lawyers argue against prosecutors, judges and other lawyers about how courts apply law and facts, not with POs.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by ammo.crafter

Adhere to the law in your state. If you are demanded to hand over your CCW without being given a practicable reason have your attorney come to the scene.

Many people assume LEOs have a greater knowledge of guns.....they absolutely do not. They do know their duty weapon without doubt.

Some know their duty weapon. As former department armorer, I would argue that most dont.