The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 21, 2021, 06:38 PM   #1
baddarryl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2011
Location: Cape Fear!
Posts: 1,680
Hand Guards for AR?

Hi all. I get the dummy of the day reward yet again! I can no longer see the A2 front sight on my carbine length AR so I ordered a Green Dot for it and took it to my Smith for a low profile gas block. I did not think about having to replace the hand guards for it as I have never built an AR. For some reason he never asked me about guards and I didn't know any better. So when I picked it up I asked if my old guards would work and they said they won't and the Delta ring will have to be replaced too. I guess I am just going to have to eat some crow, order them and take it back. Lesson learned.

My question is what sized guards do I need? The ones that came off are 6 3/4 inches long. Everything else about the rifle is standard Del Ton AR. As far as the guards I really don't care or need anything fancy. Just so I can add flip up sights and possibly a light underneath etc. Let me add that I want to be able to mount the front sight as far forward as possible. Thanks.
baddarryl is offline  
Old January 21, 2021, 07:25 PM   #2
Chipperman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2000
Location: Live Free or Die, Baby!
Posts: 1,550
Those would be carbine length. Sounds like you will need free float, if the gas block has no provision for handguards to lock into it.
Chipperman is offline  
Old January 21, 2021, 07:31 PM   #3
GarandTd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2016
Location: Rural PA
Posts: 1,639
The longer the guard, the longer the sight radius and more room for attachments. Also, the longer they are, the more expensive they are, typically. You'll also have to decide what accessory mounting system you want.
__________________
22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp
GarandTd is offline  
Old January 21, 2021, 07:33 PM   #4
GarandTd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2016
Location: Rural PA
Posts: 1,639
Personally, I like to see a little bit of barrel. If I were assembling one, I'd go with 12"-14" handguard over a 16" barrel.
__________________
22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp
GarandTd is offline  
Old January 21, 2021, 07:36 PM   #5
GarandTd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2016
Location: Rural PA
Posts: 1,639
Also consider some handguards use a proprietary barrel nut and some utilize the "standard" or Mil-Spec nut.
__________________
22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp
GarandTd is offline  
Old January 21, 2021, 08:43 PM   #6
GarandTd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2016
Location: Rural PA
Posts: 1,639
I was looking into modifying my carbine's handguards, but I then decided I like my carbine just the way it is. If I mess with handguards it'll be while assembling a new upper. One with a free-float handguard, low pro gas block and rifle length gas. There are quite a few options out there for handguards and lots to consider.
__________________
22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp
GarandTd is offline  
Old January 22, 2021, 07:28 AM   #7
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,274
Generally,putting on a green dot/red dot sight can be quite compatible with the original iron sights.Its the "cowitness" thing. All you have to do is put the dot sight on

Was the original front sight/gas block the pinned on GI type? If it was,be sure to keep your original sight. You may want to go back to it over time. You would need two new taper pins.

At this point.your front sight location is determined by the length of your carbine gas system. The gas port location. You can't move that.
What you can do is order and install a free float handguard. Those come in (at least) 3 different lengths. Carbine,"mid length" and Rifle length.

Those generally start in the $150 range. Talk with your smith ,study up at Aero,Yankee Hill,Midwest Industries,and wherever else fellow TFL members send you.

These forends come with a different,robust barrel nut designed to be the foundation of the free float tube. The tube will then thread or clamp onto the barrel nut.
There are various systems to attach the forend. You may watch videos probably at Brownells,YouTube,Midway,and the forend maufacturer sites.

As it seems you have learned,educate yourself about compatibilty before you spend money

Forends can be had with picatinny rail,M-Loc,Q-Mod.etc for attaching sights,lights,and any other Barbie Doll accessories you desire..
Check into the price of sights.The more moderately priced sights are generally plastic. Steel sights cost $. For a free float forend and steel front and rear sights,expect $300 or so for the moderately priced ones.
Make your own choices.but some prefer 45 degree offset sights to go with a top mount dot sight. You can search all this on youtube.

For a forend to rotate over your gas block to thread on,it must have large enough ID for clearance over the gas block. This is not a slender forend.

The slimmer ones slip over the barrel nut without rotation for threads. They clamp on.
HiBC is offline  
Old January 22, 2021, 07:59 AM   #8
imashooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 395
Google "free float hand guards" and decide for yourself.
imashooter is offline  
Old January 22, 2021, 08:47 AM   #9
9x19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 15, 1998
Location: Sherman, TX USA
Posts: 3,750
This all started because you could "no longer see the A2 front sight", and now you want to mount flip-up sights?

If the upper has already been dis-assembled, just choose a hand guard which you like the looks, length and price of. My preference is not longer than 12" over a 16" barrel.

Good luck
__________________
Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
9x19 is offline  
Old January 22, 2021, 10:35 AM   #10
baddarryl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2011
Location: Cape Fear!
Posts: 1,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9x19 View Post
This all started because you could "no longer see the A2 front sight", and now you want to mount flip-up sights?

If the upper has already been dis-assembled, just choose a hand guard which you like the looks, length and price of. My preference is not longer than 12" over a 16" barrel.

Good luck
Yes it was a regular A2 sight. Yes I want flip up for two reasons, one if the green dot fails and for anyone else that wants to shoot it with irons. This is not my primary rifle so I want it to be flexible depending on the situation.
baddarryl is offline  
Old January 22, 2021, 01:38 PM   #11
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,274
My self,(and this is preference), removing the A-2 front sight/gas block and pins presents the issue of the two transverse 1/2 hole notches across the barrel where the pins were.
Those may complicate some of your options.
Yankee Hill makes a folding clamp on front sight/gas block. I'm pretty sure other outfits do,too. You might look at Troy ,etc. I'm not sure how the above mentioned pin cuts will work out with those.
MagPul makes a couple of versions of a non-free float polymer forend in carbine or mid length. IIRC,the top half of the mid length has a cutout for the carbine sight.You gain a little forend length but but you are still stuck with the gas port locating the gas block.Gaining sight radius...might not come easy.

If you look around you might find an upper assembly you can pin on your lower,keeping your original that you can switch out.
Yes,it costs money,but a free float tube and sights costs money,too.

Browse Aero.And look at the 45 deg offset sights to supplement your dot. Its an option.
HiBC is offline  
Old January 22, 2021, 01:48 PM   #12
dyl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,310
Quote:
Yes I want flip up for two reasons, one if the green dot fails and for anyone else that wants to shoot it with irons. This is not my primary rifle so I want it to be flexible depending on the situation.
I think 9x19's quote about how you can't see the front sight and the was because after you put on the flip up sights... you still wouldn't be able to see them right? Because they're far away. And that was the nature of the problem with the A2 sight. But I'm sure you didn't mean *literally* can't see them at all.

The only free float handguards I've ever used were Aero precision. Aero is a solid choice as far as machining quality goes (hopefully Coronavirus hasn't changed that) without paying Geissele or BCM prices. I like their Atlas R-one and Atlas S-one series. The S-one has a smooth top surface and is slim and gives you a lot of control if you like the modern "C-clamp" grip where you wrap your thumb around the top of the barrel. But without a rail running along the top, there are less places for pressure pad switch for a light. There is still a small section of rail at the muzzle end for a back up front sight.

The Atlas R-one has a continuous rail along the top which is less comfortable for people using the "C-clamp" grip but if you're going to mount gizmos, you might look into that. Both have M-lok slots running down 3, 6, 9 o'clock.

The rails come with their proprietary barrel nut, taper lock (rather than screws) and the Torx wrench to tighten it.

I also have another Aero free float handguard but it attaches directly to the upper, rather than the barrel nut, for the ultimate free floating goodness. But that would involve getting a whole upper receiver which I don't think you're trying to do. And who knows, in practice having zero pressure on the barrel nut might only make a difference if someone has a barrel costing $1000.

On a 10.5 inch barrel, I tried a 9 inch S-one and switched it to a 9 inch R-one because I wanted to mount a pressure switch. At 5 foot 7, it's enough rail to stretch my arm out far enough. I don't think I'd have anywhere to grip safely with a completely locked out arm. These days what's in stock will probably have a big part of what you end up getting.

I hear good things about Midwest Industries too, at about the same price point.

Last edited by dyl; January 22, 2021 at 06:00 PM.
dyl is offline  
Old January 22, 2021, 03:29 PM   #13
Chipperman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2000
Location: Live Free or Die, Baby!
Posts: 1,550
I love my Midwest handguards, but they are not the cheapest by any means.
Chipperman is offline  
Old January 22, 2021, 10:35 PM   #14
gaseousclay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 4, 2010
Posts: 1,210
+1 for Midwest handguards. I’ve got an mlok drop in handguard from Midwest and it’s well made and didn’t cost much compared to other brands
gaseousclay is offline  
Old February 11, 2021, 01:13 AM   #15
HWS
Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2018
Posts: 90
OP, you mentioned Del-ton. I really like those people. They sell all sorts of rails and will give you all the free advice you need.

i personally like the M4 dual heat shield mil spec hand guards. After dumping a lot of money after market rails that overheated with hard firing and/or having the attachments, light mounts, sling mounts, etc., wiggle loose with heat and hard use, I came back to the M4, fat, dual heat shield rails. They never fail. You have to find other ways to attach things but if you do, they will never wiggle loose again. If you want a SHTF or HD AR, this is important to you.
HWS is offline  
Old February 12, 2021, 02:39 PM   #16
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
I'm curious as to why you removed the A2 sight?
Hawg is offline  
Old February 12, 2021, 04:26 PM   #17
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,235
If you put a different gas block on, you should be able to use the original hand-guards if all the remaining hardware was reinstalled, I’ve installed low profile gas blocks and put original guards back on.

Did the smith put the old barrel nut on the barrel or something new?
rickyrick is offline  
Old February 12, 2021, 04:40 PM   #18
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,248
Quote:
So when I picked it up I asked if my old guards would work and they said they won't and the Delta ring will have to be replaced too.
Not so. You can still use the same handguards. The gas block holds the retainer in place at thefront, and the delta ring will still hold the back of the handguard. If your gunsmith doesn't know this, he shouldn't be gunsmithing.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Scorch is offline  
Old February 12, 2021, 04:49 PM   #19
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,274
I'm with Hawg on this one. The dot sights work fine with the A2 sights in place

There is "cowitness" and "lower 1/3 cowitness" The difference is in the mount height. With "Cowitness" You just bring the rifle to your face ,looking through the larger aperture
.The dot will be there just fine. Sitting on tje front sight post.At least,mine is.No change in sights needed. I have one setup that way. I'm 68. I've had cataract surgery.

IF you just need a lopro gas block and you are commited to using a rail forend and flip sights,I can tell you a way...but there is no coming back. If you have a cross pinned GI type A2 front sight base/gas block those pins are cut in and you have an assembly.Its pretty much a one shot deal. Do-overs with another sight base and drilling/reaming 1/2 hole is not easily done.

But if you are sure and commited,within your A-2 front sight block is a fine lo=pro gas block. You just cut off what you don't need. Cut the sight risers just above where the gas tube goes and then shape it so it looks like a lo-pro gas block. Install the gas tube to your "new" gas block. Tighten your barrel nut.Align the tube portal. Now pin the gas block/tube assy onto its original place with the taper pins.

Install your rail forend over it.
HiBC is offline  
Old February 12, 2021, 05:05 PM   #20
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
Both of ours have A2 sights. One has a lower 1/3 witness red dot. The dot sits a little above the front sight. If something happens to the red dot you can still use the irons with it installed. The other one has a 3-9X40 scope on medium QD mounts. The scope can't see the front sight post. If something happens to the scope it only takes a second to remove it.
Hawg is offline  
Old February 16, 2021, 02:24 PM   #21
Sweet Shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2011
Posts: 672
When OP says they can no longer see the front sight, I suspect it's because it's too close. As eyes age we oldies need a longer sight radius with an aperture in the back. A free float hand rail would allow this, however I have found it's still not enough. Mounting a red dot closer in isn't going to fix the issue either. Mounting a prism with an adjustable diopter will fix it.

The new Vortex Gen II Spitfire prism sights look very interesting. I have the older models on my AR's. Which are awesome, but maybe a little bulky... but then so is the Rolls Royce—Elcan Specter.
Sweet Shooter is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.05937 seconds with 8 queries