Invincible gun safe?

dyl · December 7, 2020, 03:22 PM

10+ years ago, I remember being at someone's unattached garage where they were talking about their trusty gun safe. If i remember correctly, they said that before they had an alarm system installed, someone had broken in and tried to open it with a cutting torch and gave up and left. The owner pointed to some hinges at the front, and one seemed a little deformed, and he later had to repaint the front of the safe.

I know just a little about metal working but knew even less back then, so I just accepted it.

These days my inclination is to believe that any commercially available safe for home owners could be defeated through the sides with an angle grinder. It might take a couple blades, it might not. Back then perhaps the 20V Lithium ion cordless tools weren't available and so they used a torch. Which would be quieter I suppose.
I'm inclined to think the steel side panels aren't hardened / heat treated, they just gauge strength by thickness alone. Mild steel.

So would someone have really given up? Maybe ran out of fuel for the torch? Arms got tired? Spooked? Tried using a Propane torch?

cslinger · December 7, 2020, 03:48 PM

The only invincible gun safe is the invisible gun safe.

FITASC · December 7, 2020, 03:50 PM

Or the one you get when you buy an abandoned bank building.........those would make great walk-in vaults..........

unclenunzie · December 7, 2020, 05:05 PM

Safes buy time, not invincibility. Did a lot of reading about safes years ago and it kind of comes down to a minimum of steel thickness, properly bolted down, with other layers like alarms, lights, toothy critters, insurance riders, etc. Really depends on what value you place on what you want to protect, and how much money you wish to spend on that.

Others know a great deal more than me, the average gun accumulator. Even the finest jeweler's safe can be cut open but the time it takes is the protection you buy.

About the only direct recommendation I can make is pay for quality, bolt it down with proper hardware in a corner, arranged so the non-hinge side is against a wall. This makes using a pry bar almost impossible, no room to lever it.

Ed4032 · December 7, 2020, 08:15 PM

The idea of a safe is that it is just one more barrier to slow the thieves down. Hopefully they give up and move to an easier target.

rc · December 7, 2020, 10:01 PM

The invincible gun safe has an autonomous defensive system such as the owner with a loaded weapon ready to defend it. If you can build a hide out for your safe and conceal it in your house it would add an extra layer of security. Crooks can't steal what they cant find and they can't steal what they don't have time to deal with if your house has an alarm.

dyl · December 7, 2020, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Or the one you get when you buy an abandoned bank building.........those would make great walk-in vaults..........

Now one of THOSE safes I could see someone actually giving up on

TXAZ · December 7, 2020, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyl

Now one of THOSE safes I could see someone actually giving up on

A few people notably didn’t give up (cracking) on bank safes and gained substantial fortune...

BJung · December 8, 2020, 11:10 AM

The best safe for me - and for the money - are government surplus safes. I had one at my oldest brother's house for extra guns. To make the story short, his house caught on fire. It was so hot that steel beams bent and aluminum engine parts melted into a puddle. Everything was ashes except for "that" safe. I looked it up on the internet and apparently, there was one in Hiroshima that survived the atomic bomb. That's good enough for me.

Shadow9mm · December 8, 2020, 11:19 AM

no gun safe is invincible, but some are better than others. This video is older but explains a LOT about safes, very good info. basically, the more steel the better, and know exactly how much steel you are getting. I actually purchased a safe from the guy in the vid, CE Safes a year or 2 ago. Great service, great safe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK-bDbADa8&t=214s

On another note, People spend big money on safes, but skimp on basic home security. Find a local locksmith, not just google, make sure they have a brick and mortar store. Make sure your entry doors have reinforced latches and hinges, and good quality locks with uncommon keys. Protect everything in your house, including yourself and your family, make it hard to even get in the door.

Pahoo · December 8, 2020, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Now one of THOSE safes I could see someone actually giving up on

A number of years ago, I was offered a safe that came out of a post office. On the outside, it was rather large. On the inside, the useable space was limited. The walls and door were lined with about a foot of of concrete. I seldom pass on a freebee and this is one of those times.

You have to weigh the odds of someone wanting to break in. First off, very few people know that I have one and what's in it. I don't worry about a pro breaking in; I worry about some dumb kids making a big mistake .....

Be Safe !!!

T. O'Heir · December 10, 2020, 02:07 PM

Like Shadow9mm says, no safe is invincible. Any of 'em can be opened with enough time. Even a bank vault.
"...with a cutting torch..." The criminal take that with him or was it the safe owner's? Just curious, but if it's the former there was serious planning and transport involved.
"...except for "that" safe..." The contents would be, um, toasted. Al, depending on the actual alloy, melts at 655 ° C (1215 ° F). Steel loses temper at about 200 to 500 C. Wood starts to burn at 300 C.

December 7, 2020, 03:22 PM	#1
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	Invincible gun safe? 10+ years ago, I remember being at someone's unattached garage where they were talking about their trusty gun safe. If i remember correctly, they said that before they had an alarm system installed, someone had broken in and tried to open it with a cutting torch and gave up and left. The owner pointed to some hinges at the front, and one seemed a little deformed, and he later had to repaint the front of the safe. I know just a little about metal working but knew even less back then, so I just accepted it. These days my inclination is to believe that any commercially available safe for home owners could be defeated through the sides with an angle grinder. It might take a couple blades, it might not. Back then perhaps the 20V Lithium ion cordless tools weren't available and so they used a torch. Which would be quieter I suppose. I'm inclined to think the steel side panels aren't hardened / heat treated, they just gauge strength by thickness alone. Mild steel. So would someone have really given up? Maybe ran out of fuel for the torch? Arms got tired? Spooked? Tried using a Propane torch? Last edited by dyl; December 7, 2020 at 03:33 PM. Reason: more descriptive title

December 7, 2020, 03:48 PM	#2
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,045	The only invincible gun safe is the invisible gun safe. __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"

December 7, 2020, 03:50 PM	#3
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	Or the one you get when you buy an abandoned bank building.........those would make great walk-in vaults.......... __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

December 7, 2020, 05:05 PM	#4
unclenunzie Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2016 Location: Texas. Posts: 140	Safes buy time, not invincibility. Did a lot of reading about safes years ago and it kind of comes down to a minimum of steel thickness, properly bolted down, with other layers like alarms, lights, toothy critters, insurance riders, etc. Really depends on what value you place on what you want to protect, and how much money you wish to spend on that. Others know a great deal more than me, the average gun accumulator. Even the finest jeweler's safe can be cut open but the time it takes is the protection you buy. About the only direct recommendation I can make is pay for quality, bolt it down with proper hardware in a corner, arranged so the non-hinge side is against a wall. This makes using a pry bar almost impossible, no room to lever it. __________________ I reject your reality and substitute my own! this space for rent

December 7, 2020, 08:15 PM	#5
Ed4032 Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 306	The idea of a safe is that it is just one more barrier to slow the thieves down. Hopefully they give up and move to an easier target. __________________ Gun control is like stopping drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to drive.

December 7, 2020, 10:01 PM	#6
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,765	The invincible gun safe has an autonomous defensive system such as the owner with a loaded weapon ready to defend it. If you can build a hide out for your safe and conceal it in your house it would add an extra layer of security. Crooks can't steal what they cant find and they can't steal what they don't have time to deal with if your house has an alarm.

December 8, 2020, 11:10 AM	#9
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 773	The best safe for me - and for the money - are government surplus safes. I had one at my oldest brother's house for extra guns. To make the story short, his house caught on fire. It was so hot that steel beams bent and aluminum engine parts melted into a puddle. Everything was ashes except for "that" safe. I looked it up on the internet and apparently, there was one in Hiroshima that survived the atomic bomb. That's good enough for me.

December 8, 2020, 11:19 AM	#10
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	no gun safe is invincible, but some are better than others. This video is older but explains a LOT about safes, very good info. basically, the more steel the better, and know exactly how much steel you are getting. I actually purchased a safe from the guy in the vid, CE Safes a year or 2 ago. Great service, great safe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK-bDbADa8&t=214s On another note, People spend big money on safes, but skimp on basic home security. Find a local locksmith, not just google, make sure they have a brick and mortar store. Make sure your entry doors have reinforced latches and hinges, and good quality locks with uncommon keys. Protect everything in your house, including yourself and your family, make it hard to even get in the door. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload. Last edited by Shadow9mm; December 8, 2020 at 11:27 AM.

December 10, 2020, 02:07 PM	#12
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Like Shadow9mm says, no safe is invincible. Any of 'em can be opened with enough time. Even a bank vault. "...with a cutting torch..." The criminal take that with him or was it the safe owner's? Just curious, but if it's the former there was serious planning and transport involved. "...except for "that" safe..." The contents would be, um, toasted. Al, depending on the actual alloy, melts at 655 ° C (1215 ° F). Steel loses temper at about 200 to 500 C. Wood starts to burn at 300 C. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!