Starting a high volume and large scale bullet manufacturing business

[Machineguntony]

Ah, that guy has appeared. The ‘don’t do it, can’t be done’ guy. I’m familiar with that type of guy. I’ve run across him several times. They never add anything constructive, but are more than happy to tell you that it can’t be done.

[USSR]

Never said it couldn't be done or even that you shouldn't do it, so don't put words in my mouth. But, if you have no idea on how to go about manufacturing a product, I certainly wouldn't invest in your business venture, and I took a few upper level Business/Economics courses and own my own business.

Don

[SHR970]

Have to add: I believe it was Dardas that offered a buy out due to retirement. If you want to go into the cast business; there is your opportunity. My recollection may be wrong on whom but the info is on this forum within the last year. You have an opportunity to turn key an operation if cast is the way you wish to go.

[USSR]

Have to add: I believe it was Dardas that offered a buy out due to retirement. If you want to go into the cast business; there is your opportunity.

Now, something like that would make sense.

Don

[50 shooter]

Hell, I hope he gets the business up and running and offers deals to TFL'ers!

Besides doing all the lead, copper and other stuff, don't forget a good CNC machine shop. Hire a great machinist and also run solids for those of us that like them.

Don't listen to the haters, you can find them on every corner of the interwebs. Sounds like you already know how to run a business and what it takes to get it off the ground.

Just don't forget us little people when you start making quality bullets. If you need a lot of heavy stuff delivered and you have a train branch line next to your business, let me know. I work for a RR company and if you have enough business, might be able to hook you up.

[Mike38]

Sorry, Mike, but for every Henry Ford, there are 10's of thousands who fail miserably.

Very true. But if it wasn't for those 10's of thousands trying, again, technology would still be stuck in the 1800's. I wish him luck. Who knows, 10 years from now he may be producing the most accurate bullets known to man, a multi millionaire laughing all the way to the bank.

[BJung]

I've always wondered how rewarding it is to run a business by being the visionary or being the pragmatists. It takes a little of both I think.

I had a small mail-order business once. I always was working. If I wasn't in my shop, my mind was there. I slept in my warehouse. My diet was poor. No toys. But was it worth it, yes. And, once you do it, it get's in your blood and you'll want to do it again. At least that's my experience.

You need to find a niche to give you an edge. No one's going to buy your widget if there are other competitors making the same thing. Low prices can keep you poor. High prices means high quality which is high expense.

I suggest that you ask people online who they are buying their bullets from and what that company lacks. Get a list of them and find the right niche product to add to your widget list. People who buy your niche product will probably buy your product too if the quality and price is about the same. Your competitors won't be able to react quickly because their production is tied down to current expenses. Few would have a lot of extra cash laying around to invest. And, if so, most will be conservative about the choice. Making the wrong financial investment is very damaging to a business. Those few cents that added up to dollars over a length of time is damaging financially and spiritually. Heck, you worked a lot of hours squirreling away that money. Move fast, work hard, listen to wise advice, and make the best choice you can. At worse, you'll crash, get back up, and be even better the next time.

[Bart B.]

Where does one find employees who are familiar with running, maintaining, and operating these machines?

Put a help wanted ad in newspapers located in cities where bullet company plants are.

[Bart B.]

You will also need things to test your products quality. A hundred yard indoor range with stuff to load and shoot them.

[jetinteriorguy]

I would talk to the company that manufactures the machines. They may have a lot of answers for your questions. I’ve looked into this very idea myself and the two things that gave me second thoughts were a good reliable supply of lead at a decent price, and dealing with the EPA. I came to the conclusion that the margins were so small as a start up that I couldn’t see carrying the business until it became profitable enough to provide a livable income. But, I was also mainly considering it from a part time business as a semi retired person and I just did not want to put the time and effort into it that would be required to be successful.

[Bart B.]

Some bullet makers use rebuilt machines from arsenal surplus sales:

http://www.mfgammunition.com/

Others use commercial dies in heavy duty reloading presses and J4 commercial jackets from Berger Bullets.

https://bergerbullets.com/products/j...ision-jackets/

http://www.corbins.com/

[TBM900]

Originally Posted by USSR

Quote:
Starting a business in something that you know little to nothing about, what could possibly go wrong?



Sorry, Mike, but for every Henry Ford, there are 10's of thousands who fail miserably. Besides, he's not creating any new technology, he's talking about trying to go toe-to-toe with the big boys in an already competitive market.

Don

Not only competitive but shrinking rapidly
And under the ever increasing burden of massive regulation
Not to mention in an area that is soon to be devastated by our rapidly expanding marxist environment
All things an actual diverse business person would already know

[BJung]

As I had mentioned, talk to the retired old timers from the Industry, they will give you a realistic idea of what the business is like and can be. Ask them what options there are.

[44 AMP]

Tapping the wisdom of the ancients is a useful thing, But always take into consideration their wisdom is also dated.

I can tell you how to run a certain chemical process, with equipment and systems made in the late 50s, and updated last in the late 80s, but I couldn't tell you anything about how to run the stuff in a plant made 10 years ago...without first learning it for myself...

A lot of what I could tell you is still valid, important useful stuff, but a lot no longer applies...

talk to the guys who did it, see what they'll share. Just keep in mind, that's only part of what you'll need to know, to do it, today....


Good Luck!

[cw308]

Machinegun
If you made it in the food business you can make it in any business . I started my own business , I didn't just jump in , I did my homework , asked a million questions and finally went with it . Sold it after 31 years . You have to love what you do and I did. Once the new guy opens up everyone's going to give you a try so be ready . Tony , Good luck on your venture . I for sure will give you a try , 45acp 230 grain FMJ , 308 168gr. HPBT and .223 55gr. fmj.

Chris

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Machineguntony

During this COVID shut down, I have time on my hands and I’m looking into starting a bullet manufacturing business.

First, please don’t go into the typical, ‘it’s a tough business, don’t do it blah blah blah’. It’s not a constructive line of dialogue because every successful business is tough.

Start up cost is NOT an issue. I’m looking at starting with something like Waterburyfarrel machines (website says 240 bullets per minute).

http://www.waterburyfarrel.com/bulle...sembly-machine

Where does one find employees who are familiar with running, maintaining, and operating these machines?

How easy or difficult is it nowadays to find the supplies like lead and copper to manufacture the bullets? I’m guessing this is the main impediment right now.

Anyone have experience with these machines?

Anyone have resources about the business they would care to share?

I’m in the exploration phase.

A friend of mine and me had all the bullet making equipment. I bought it cheap. Great equipment. We could make TMJ, round nose, hollow point, or solids. To be profitable, you would have to make a lot, and I do mean a lot, of bullets. You are also going to have to direct sale to the public. You involve middle men, your profit evaporated. There is no shortage of lead or Copper.
We got an offer we couldnt refuse for the equipment and sold it.
If you want to turn a better profit, hook up with a direct importer and import you a couple hundred thousand dollars of bullets at a time from South America. You can buy them cheaper than you can make them unless you scale up massive.

[Tony Z]

I started (in 1989) a powder metal parts manufacturing business. I'm still here/there in 2020. In 1990 I explored making bullets from powder metal (frangible, before that term was coined!), but couldn't produce volumes sufficient to warrant the venture. Alas, after 9/11, I wish I had! Point is, sometimes you just need to follow your first instincts.

I've never heard of Waterbury - am interested in seeing more about them. However, a well known maker is Corbin Mfg. They might be an excellent resource. I would also suggest getting details on the tooling used by the presses to do the forming, that is the money hole of this sort of industry.

Also, I suggest you contact the BATF and learn if you need a license. If so, better start sooner rather than later.

PM me if you want.

[44 AMP]

In 1990 I explored making bullets from powder metal (frangible, before that term was coined!),

The term "frangible" goes back waaay before 1990. It just wasn't widely used outside the military for a long time.

[lll Otto lll]

Originally Posted by Machineguntony

Maybe nothing comes of this.

That's what I think too.

[stinkeypete]

To get a good reputation, ingratiate yourself with a chat group that will talk you up online.

Mike talked about those swaged .314 wadcutters... I would buy a box of 500 right now and then post pictures of the groups for you!

Then you want to get a good design for your website. I don't mean the build, anyone can do that.. but the architecture of your presentation and products that will be easy to navigate, use and maintain. THEN do the art and coding.

The workers you want to hire will also need to be trained in working with lead and you'll need to train them so your "dirty" areas do not spread and contaminate your entire building.

Now.. those .314's... very hard to come by and they are not 9mm so kids today don't want em.

[Tony Z]

I'm aware of the history of powder metal in bullets, dating back to experiments by Remington, starting as early as the very late 40's. Frangible was applied to the need of bullets after the airline highjackings of 9/11. Though a few companies (one about 30 miles from me) tried to pass on that they invented the concept, credit needs to go to Remington.

In any case, from owning a conventional processing plant, it is a poor application of the process, though powder metal can be used in a different process.

[Catchabullet]

Odds are that the company you buy the machine from will offer a class upon purchase if "new in box". In every industry I've worked in,this has been the case. Coffee shops..buy an espresso machine? They'll give you tutorial on maintenance and such. Indoor Shooting range... Buy a target carrier system? Do the same as above. Laboratory? Buy any piece of expensive analytical equipment? They'll do similar things. You just make whoever gets sent, The SME (subject matter expert),and make sure they're very well compensated. IMHO, I'd try to secure component streams before getting machinery. I wish you the best and hope you succeed at this. It's something I've entertained as I own land in the Philippines.

[MSD Mike]

As catchabullet said, I would recommend talking to the folks Waterbury Farrel and see if they can assist in training on the equipment. It seems like you have the re$ource$ so offer to fly one of their guys out to train you and your employees and show them some Texas hospitality. Lol, maybe in October to beat the heat. Also, they would certainly know where to buy raw materials.

[Unclenick]

…or see if you can go to them, assuming they keep a copy on hand for training.

Have your list of questions ready for them. Tooling costs and lead times for the machine and tooling changes and replacement are obvious questions to ask, as are space and power requirements. Others would include cost to have them serve as the millwrights to install the machinery and do your first set up at your location is another. You want to know average annual maintenance downtime and costs. Learn the scrap levels so you can figure your raw materials throughput and gauge your supply line needs. Also find out how scrap is separated out so you can plan recycling or reprocessing and safe handling costs. See if you can find out what the resale value of the equipment is and other factors that will affect your ROI and your insurance costs. Go over your list with your accountant and, if its someone other than you, your business manager before deciding the list of questions is complete.

[Prof Young]

Machineguntony:

I hope you make it. It would be fun to buy "Machineguntony" bullets for reloading.

In my "business" we say "break a leg" instead of "good luck" so . . .

Break a leg.

Life is good.
Prof Young