About to Buy a Heavy Duty Handgun - Page 3

Reloadron · March 22, 2021, 04:15 PM

I see a black bear as the least of your worries while out and about in wooded areas. Deer hunting in West Virginia seeing bear scat was common. So one day I am sitting on a rock just maybe 100 feet above the river. Just beyond a grove of heavy shrubbery. I had my Ruger 44 Carbine across my legs. Heard something so here I sit expecting my venison and out walks a large black bear. I look at bear and bear gets up on his hinds and looks at me. Bear drops down to all fours and walks down towards the river.

Black bear attacks are rare and very rare. Maybe one per year on the North American continent. Fact is black bears will go out of their way to avoid human contact. If you happen to be walking with a dog just keep the dog calm. Obviously you may have an issue if you manage to place yourself between a mother and her cubs. Anyway, again maybe one black bear attack on the North American continent per year.

Black bear attacks on humans are rare but often begin as scuffles with dogs, experts say.

Educate yourself on the behavior of black bears.

Mountain lions are thin skinned so it really does not take a heavy cartridge to bring one down. A .223 Remington in a rifle is more than adequate or in a handgun a .357 Magnum is more than adequate. Any shot you take is likely well within 50 yards so I see no need for anything above a .357 Magnum revolver for a thin skinned mountain lion, cougar, puma or choose a name.

You may want to check with your local fish and game people.

This poor black bear showed up literally up the block from me in the Cleveland, Ohio suburbs. The fish and game wildlife guys put him at about 400 pounds and it's pretty apparent this bear wanted nothing to do with humans.

Ron

Desmosedici · March 23, 2021, 12:19 PM

Excellent point, JohnKsa. Unless you hit the brain or spine, which in an animal facing you is probably impossible (at least the spine), it's going to continue a little bit even though death is imminent.

Further to your point, there is a very easily-found up-close and graphic video of a police officer shooting a citizen who attacked him a few weeks ago in Maryland, and said individual soaked up 12 rounds of 9mm, many which went in his chest, and he kept charging for a little bit of time. Long enough that if he had a lethal weapon, he could have still caused injury or death.

Reinforces the thought that all handguns, regardless of caliber...are handguns. If I were to be in bear country or the woods, etc., if I were bringing a firearm, I would try and bring a rifle. And EVEN THEN, I would still have substantial respect and awareness of the wilderness.
Short of a a Ma Deuce, I'm not sure any weapon is foolproof. And none of us are hiking with Ma Dueces. Of course I'm sure many here are far more experienced than I in hiking/hunting/camping outdoors where dangerous animals roam, so I yield to those with that knowledge.

**JohnKSa** · March 24, 2021, 12:30 AM

Handguns are, indeed, handguns, but if the rounds are placed haphazardly, even rifle bullets can fail to stop after multiple shots.

The key is hitting something important--if that doesn't happen, the results will be disappointing regardless of caliber, or even regardless of whether it's a rifle or pistol.

jetinteriorguy · March 24, 2021, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reloadron

I see a black bear as the least of your worries while out and about in wooded areas. Deer hunting in West Virginia seeing bear scat was common. So one day I am sitting on a rock just maybe 100 feet above the river. Just beyond a grove of heavy shrubbery. I had my Ruger 44 Carbine across my legs. Heard something so here I sit expecting my venison and out walks a large black bear. I look at bear and bear gets up on his hinds and looks at me. Bear drops down to all fours and walks down towards the river.

Black bear attacks are rare and very rare. Maybe one per year on the North American continent. Fact is black bears will go out of their way to avoid human contact. If you happen to be walking with a dog just keep the dog calm. Obviously you may have an issue if you manage to place yourself between a mother and her cubs. Anyway, again maybe one black bear attack on the North American continent per year.

Black bear attacks on humans are rare but often begin as scuffles with dogs, experts say.

Educate yourself on the behavior of black bears.

Mountain lions are thin skinned so it really does not take a heavy cartridge to bring one down. A .223 Remington in a rifle is more than adequate or in a handgun a .357 Magnum is more than adequate. Any shot you take is likely well within 50 yards so I see no need for anything above a .357 Magnum revolver for a thin skinned mountain lion, cougar, puma or choose a name.

You may want to check with your local fish and game people.

This poor black bear showed up literally up the block from me in the Cleveland, Ohio suburbs. The fish and game wildlife guys put him at about 400 pounds and it's pretty apparent this bear wanted nothing to do with humans.

Ron

Not too long ago a woman in Maryland was attacked by a black bear while walking her two German Shepherds. Apparently the bear didn’t like her dogs and they were off a leash.

Ruger45LC · March 24, 2021, 04:10 PM

To me you're going to want something that isn't cumbersome to carry around but also has enough steam to put a hurting on a black bear and mountain lion. Personally I would go with either Glock 27 or the slightly bigger but still manageable Glock 23. You get good power, reliability, good capacity and the guns don't weigh a ton so they're not going to bother you while out in the woods.

I'm a fan of the .40, it's got enough power for a semi auto handgun. It's no 44 Magnum but it's much lighter with better capacity. It moves around steel better than 9mm and 357, and does just as well as the .45 in a smaller package.

hub1home · March 24, 2021, 05:55 PM

I would go with the Ruger Super Redhawk ALASKAN in .44 magnum. There are a couple for sale on Gunbroker. Although I love the 10mm, please don't let anyone talk you into getting one for the purposes that you mentioned. It just ain't always enough unless you get lucky.

Sgt127 · April 10, 2021, 10:25 PM

A have a great 3” S&W model 65. It’s just a good solid gun.

Around town, I carry 158 GR Hollow Points. Or, slightly downloaded Lead Semiwadcutters.

If I head out in the Wild, I load it with Grizzly Hardcast 158 Gr.

If I’m out where snakes are an issue, I can toss a couple rat shots in my pocket.

It may not be “The” best for everything. But, for me, in my environments, it’s a decent compromise.

Reasonably compact. Not exceptionally heavy. Stainless. Double action (I know the SA guys may balk, I don’t shoot SA enough to be fast with it)

I live in Nevada. Really, my only threats would be: Bobcat. Mountain lion. A bad coyote. Very remote chance of bear. And. Rattlesnakes.

I’m better served with a lighter gun and extra water.

JustJake · April 11, 2021, 09:02 AM

Quote:

But I live in the country and many days I am in the forest. I have been doing this for 30 years and never had a problem but if I am going to get a handgun I want it to handle and potential problems.
There is always a lot of talk about handguns that will stop a grizzly. This is not a pleasant thought for me. We don't have grizzly bears here, only black bears but we do have mountain lions.
So if I get a handgun I want it to have a chance of stopping the aforementioned creatures. If it will do that, a human should be no problem.

I really don't care if it is a revolver or semi-auto.

What would you recommend?

For the critters and conditions you've described, the 10mm AUTO is never a mistake.

It's hands-down the most versatile semi-auto cartridge for an outdoor/"woods" gun of reasonable size and weight, without getting into "boat-anchor" territory with one of the weighty Desert Eagles in .357 or .44mag. Or worse, a low capacity mega-magnum wheelgun which typically weighs the same or even more.

Fortunately, the 10mm is chambered in the extremely versatile Glock 20, or if you want to pump-up the round's ballistic output a bit more, there's the 6.2" longslide G40.

If the Glock platform doesn't appeal to you, there are any number of makes of 1911s chambered in 10mm as well.

603Country · April 11, 2021, 10:29 AM

Have a look at the S&W 329PD. Lightest 44 mag available (I think) at 25 ounces. Looks like just what the OP needs.

As for use on bears or whatever, my one close quarters experience (large feral boar) scared the poo out of me. Fast...that thing was fast, and if he had wanted a chunk of me, I don’t think I could have prevented it. Based on that experience, I think I’d go for a revolver in 44 or 41 or 357. Having a mag with 17 rounds or so probably wouldn’t have been much use in the brief frantic moment.

Armybrat · April 11, 2021, 05:55 PM

What Ike said almost two months ago:
“5 1/2" stainless .44 Mag Ruger Redhawk”.

Ruger4Life · April 11, 2021, 09:13 PM

ANY Ruger .44 magnum, except the Vaquero (t’s a bit light and not quite as strong as the others), is more than adequate to take any large game on the planet (with appropriate loads and proper shot placement). Larry Kelly (Magnaport founder) did so decades ago with a .44 custom Super Blackhawk (including Kodiak Grizzly, Polar Bear, and the African Big Five). It’s a good read if you check out the articles. Of course, using a .454 Casull, .475 Linebaugh, and .500 S&W and such calibers are more efficient, but the recoil can be punishing

Forte S+W · April 11, 2021, 10:58 PM

A Heavy Duty Handgun that can drop a Grizzly, you say?

You just described the H&K USP45!

The H&K USP45 is one of the most Heavy Duty semiautomatic polymer-framed pistols in current production. Designed based on the stringent specifications of the US Navy SOCOM, the USP45 is an evolution of the Mk23, a handgun intended to fire the absolute hottest .45 ACP loads for the purpose of serving as a primary weapon for USMC SpecOps. Both the Mk23 and USP share an almost legendary lineage of surviving some of the most grueling torture tests ever performed, as well as holding up to extreme conditions on the field.

The H&K USP is one of the very few pistols in current production that can handle .45 Super and even its hotter cousin the .450 SMC right out of the box without any need for modifications. In terms of ballistics performance, .45 Super/.450 SMC are roughly on par with 10mm Auto, but with larger diameter bullets and substantially lower peak operational chamber pressures.
Sure, it's no .44 Magnum, let alone a .500 Magnum, but it's substantially lighter in weight and therefore easier to carry in the field at 33oz with substantially less recoil as well.

Ruger4Life · April 12, 2021, 12:14 AM

I understand the appeal of the semi-autos in.40 and 10mm, but you would be hard-pressed to find any dangerous game hunters that use them when hunting deadly animals. Most go for .44 cal and up

2wheelwander · April 12, 2021, 08:02 AM

My first thought was a .357 mag. Get a GP100 4" barrel and smile all day long.

Of course a matt finished Taurus or other vaiant would be cheaper, but the mountain lions wouldn't think you are as stylish.

JustJake · April 12, 2021, 08:02 AM

Quote:

I understand the appeal of the semi-autos in.40 and 10mm, but you would be hard-pressed to find any dangerous game hunters that use them when hunting deadly animals. Most go for .44 cal and up

Reading comprehension?

The OP wasn't talking about the handgun hunting of dangerous game. He's wanting a sidearm for personal protection in the great outdoors.

As far as the 10mm, and specifically as chambered in the Glock model 20, it's currently the military sidearm of Denmark's Sirius Sledge Patrol soldiers. They patrol the arctic regions of Greenland where occasionally they run into aggressive Polar bears.

The Sledge soldiers are not out there hunting Polar bears. Their G20s are carried for immediate personal protection to stop or turn a charge when they can't get to their 30-06 rifles in time.

More here: https://www.guns.com/news/2019/11/06...eenland-patrol

Forte S+W · April 12, 2021, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruger4Life

I understand the appeal of the semi-autos in.40 and 10mm, but you would be hard-pressed to find any dangerous game hunters that use them when hunting deadly animals. Most go for .44 cal and up

According to Elmer Keith, an accomplished hunter, rancher, and the man responsible for the creation of Magnum Cartridges, any game in North America can be taken with a 255gr bullet @ 1000fps. In fact, that was what his original load for .44 Magnum called for, but cartridge companies decided that they could do better, so they spiced it up significantly. Obviously, 255grs @ 1000fps isn't exactly a tall order, in fact .45 Long Colt Black Powder loads accomplish that kind of performance, as do full SAAMI Spec .45LC Smokeless Powder loads or .44 Special +P.

Don't get me wrong, I'm generally of the opinion that if one anticipates a Grizzly Bear encounter, then they ought to carry the biggest, most powerful firearm that they can possibly carry. (My first choice would be my Mossberg 590 Shockwave loaded with Brenneke Black Magic Magnum Slugs.) However, not everyone can shoot .44 Magnum let alone more powerful Magnum Cartridges efficiently, and with proper loads a wide variety of cartridges will get the job done.

Drm50 · April 15, 2021, 05:51 PM

I think the guy with mountain lion record kills used a 7.63mm C96 Mauser. A 357mg would be my choice for both. 357 is not my favorite but will do the job, and lighter to carry than my favorite a m25 S&W 45Colt.

Jack19 · April 16, 2021, 09:15 AM

Read this.

Carry what you can shoot well and hit with.

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/upd...#axzz6sCxRXwI6

totaldla · April 16, 2021, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Ok, I know I'm going to get flamed here. But as an option a G19, loaded with Lehigh extreme penetrators.

2nd choice would be a 44 wheel gun, probably a super redhawk

3rd choice, Glock 10mm with full power loads (underwood)

Extreme penetrators don't - much better off with 147gr hardcast.
https://general-cartridge.com/2019/0...allistics-gel/
https://general-cartridge.com/2019/0...allistics-gel/

RETG · April 16, 2021, 01:04 PM

Old thread, but I'll jump in...
Since you are worried about black bears and mountain lions, I would ask the size of your black bears.
Example, when I lived in SE UT, the blacks up in the Lasal Mountains were small, the .40 I carried loaded with 200 gr Buffalo would take one down; however, never had a problem with them; they would rather run than stand their ground.

As for mountain lions, the ones I KNEW OF that I ran across, were easily chased away with three rounds in the ground just in front of them.

However, I'm pretty sure a 200 gr .40 would take them down with no problem. However, it's their home, I prefer to get them running vs. shooting them.

osbornk · April 17, 2021, 08:39 PM

A few years ago, I asked the president of the local bear hunting club what they used to hunt bears with. They use dogs to chase them up trees and then use Ruger 357 Magnums to shoot the bears out (a few use 30-30s) I figure if it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me so I carry a 3576 Magnum snubby (they use longer barrels). It onlu holds 5 but I'm not sure I could shoot more than that with the recoil I get. We have black bears here.

March 24, 2021, 12:30 AM	#53
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,972	Handguns are, indeed, handguns, but if the rounds are placed haphazardly, even rifle bullets can fail to stop after multiple shots. The key is hitting something important--if that doesn't happen, the results will be disappointing regardless of caliber, or even regardless of whether it's a rifle or pistol. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

April 11, 2021, 09:13 PM	#61
Ruger4Life Member Join Date: November 6, 2010 Posts: 71	ANY Ruger .44 magnum, except the Vaquero (t’s a bit light and not quite as strong as the others), is more than adequate to take any large game on the planet (with appropriate loads and proper shot placement). Larry Kelly (Magnaport founder) did so decades ago with a .44 custom Super Blackhawk (including Kodiak Grizzly, Polar Bear, and the African Big Five). It’s a good read if you check out the articles. Of course, using a .454 Casull, .475 Linebaugh, and .500 S&W and such calibers are more efficient, but the recoil can be punishing __________________ "Smith and Wessons are Thoroughbreds, Rugers are Clydesdales" --John Taffin

April 11, 2021, 10:58 PM	#62
Forte S+W Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2019 Posts: 819	A Heavy Duty Handgun that can drop a Grizzly, you say? You just described the H&K USP45! The H&K USP45 is one of the most Heavy Duty semiautomatic polymer-framed pistols in current production. Designed based on the stringent specifications of the US Navy SOCOM, the USP45 is an evolution of the Mk23, a handgun intended to fire the absolute hottest .45 ACP loads for the purpose of serving as a primary weapon for USMC SpecOps. Both the Mk23 and USP share an almost legendary lineage of surviving some of the most grueling torture tests ever performed, as well as holding up to extreme conditions on the field. The H&K USP is one of the very few pistols in current production that can handle .45 Super and even its hotter cousin the .450 SMC right out of the box without any need for modifications. In terms of ballistics performance, .45 Super/.450 SMC are roughly on par with 10mm Auto, but with larger diameter bullets and substantially lower peak operational chamber pressures. Sure, it's no .44 Magnum, let alone a .500 Magnum, but it's substantially lighter in weight and therefore easier to carry in the field at 33oz with substantially less recoil as well. __________________ Conspiracy theorists are the greatest political spin-doctors of all time. Only they can make the absolute worst political blunders sound like spectacular feats of ingenuity.

April 12, 2021, 12:14 AM	#63
Ruger4Life Member Join Date: November 6, 2010 Posts: 71	I understand the appeal of the semi-autos in.40 and 10mm, but you would be hard-pressed to find any dangerous game hunters that use them when hunting deadly animals. Most go for .44 cal and up __________________ "Smith and Wessons are Thoroughbreds, Rugers are Clydesdales" --John Taffin

April 16, 2021, 09:15 AM	#68
Jack19 Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2001 Location: Somewhere in the Ford Galaxy Posts: 713	Read this. Carry what you can shoot well and hit with. https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/upd...#axzz6sCxRXwI6 __________________ Liberty will not long survive the total extinction of morals. Samuel Adams

March 22, 2021, 04:15 PM	#51
Reloadron Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2016 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs Posts: 1,750	I see a black bear as the least of your worries while out and about in wooded areas. Deer hunting in West Virginia seeing bear scat was common. So one day I am sitting on a rock just maybe 100 feet above the river. Just beyond a grove of heavy shrubbery. I had my Ruger 44 Carbine across my legs. Heard something so here I sit expecting my venison and out walks a large black bear. I look at bear and bear gets up on his hinds and looks at me. Bear drops down to all fours and walks down towards the river. Black bear attacks are rare and very rare. Maybe one per year on the North American continent. Fact is black bears will go out of their way to avoid human contact. If you happen to be walking with a dog just keep the dog calm. Obviously you may have an issue if you manage to place yourself between a mother and her cubs. Anyway, again maybe one black bear attack on the North American continent per year. *Black bear attacks on humans are rare but often begin as scuffles with dogs, experts say.* Educate yourself on the behavior of black bears. Mountain lions are thin skinned so it really does not take a heavy cartridge to bring one down. A .223 Remington in a rifle is more than adequate or in a handgun a .357 Magnum is more than adequate. Any shot you take is likely well within 50 yards so I see no need for anything above a .357 Magnum revolver for a thin skinned mountain lion, cougar, puma or choose a name. You may want to check with your local fish and game people. *This poor black bear showed up literally up the block from me* in the Cleveland, Ohio suburbs. The fish and game wildlife guys put him at about 400 pounds and it's pretty apparent this bear wanted nothing to do with humans. Ron

March 23, 2021, 12:19 PM	#52
Desmosedici Member Join Date: April 1, 2016 Location: North Texas Posts: 72	Excellent point, JohnKsa. Unless you hit the brain or spine, which in an animal facing you is probably impossible (at least the spine), it's going to continue a little bit even though death is imminent. Further to your point, there is a very easily-found up-close and graphic video of a police officer shooting a citizen who attacked him a few weeks ago in Maryland, and said individual soaked up 12 rounds of 9mm, many which went in his chest, and he kept charging for a little bit of time. Long enough that if he had a lethal weapon, he could have still caused injury or death. Reinforces the thought that all handguns, regardless of caliber...are handguns. If I were to be in bear country or the woods, etc., if I were bringing a firearm, I would try and bring a rifle. And EVEN THEN, I would still have substantial respect and awareness of the wilderness. Short of a a Ma Deuce, I'm not sure any weapon is foolproof. And none of us are hiking with Ma Dueces. Of course I'm sure many here are far more experienced than I in hiking/hunting/camping outdoors where dangerous animals roam, so I yield to those with that knowledge.

March 24, 2021, 04:10 PM	#55
Ruger45LC Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 768	To me you're going to want something that isn't cumbersome to carry around but also has enough steam to put a hurting on a black bear and mountain lion. Personally I would go with either Glock 27 or the slightly bigger but still manageable Glock 23. You get good power, reliability, good capacity and the guns don't weigh a ton so they're not going to bother you while out in the woods. I'm a fan of the .40, it's got enough power for a semi auto handgun. It's no 44 Magnum but it's much lighter with better capacity. It moves around steel better than 9mm and 357, and does just as well as the .45 in a smaller package.

March 24, 2021, 05:55 PM	#56
hub1home Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2014 Posts: 182	I would go with the Ruger Super Redhawk ALASKAN in .44 magnum. There are a couple for sale on Gunbroker. Although I love the 10mm, please don't let anyone talk you into getting one for the purposes that you mentioned. It just ain't always enough unless you get lucky.

April 10, 2021, 10:25 PM	#57
Sgt127 Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2002 Posts: 1,053	A have a great 3” S&W model 65. It’s just a good solid gun. Around town, I carry 158 GR Hollow Points. Or, slightly downloaded Lead Semiwadcutters. If I head out in the Wild, I load it with Grizzly Hardcast 158 Gr. If I’m out where snakes are an issue, I can toss a couple rat shots in my pocket. It may not be “The” best for everything. But, for me, in my environments, it’s a decent compromise. Reasonably compact. Not exceptionally heavy. Stainless. Double action (I know the SA guys may balk, I don’t shoot SA enough to be fast with it) I live in Nevada. Really, my only threats would be: Bobcat. Mountain lion. A bad coyote. Very remote chance of bear. And. Rattlesnakes. I’m better served with a lighter gun and extra water.

April 11, 2021, 10:29 AM	#59
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Have a look at the S&W 329PD. Lightest 44 mag available (I think) at 25 ounces. Looks like just what the OP needs. As for use on bears or whatever, my one close quarters experience (large feral boar) scared the poo out of me. Fast...that thing was fast, and if he had wanted a chunk of me, I don’t think I could have prevented it. Based on that experience, I think I’d go for a revolver in 44 or 41 or 357. Having a mag with 17 rounds or so probably wouldn’t have been much use in the brief frantic moment.

April 11, 2021, 05:55 PM	#60
Armybrat Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2009 Location: Round Rock, Texas Posts: 976	What Ike said almost two months ago: “5 1/2" stainless .44 Mag Ruger Redhawk”.

April 12, 2021, 08:02 AM	#64
2wheelwander Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2018 Posts: 539	My first thought was a .357 mag. Get a GP100 4" barrel and smile all day long. Of course a matt finished Taurus or other vaiant would be cheaper, but the mountain lions wouldn't think you are as stylish.

April 15, 2021, 05:51 PM	#67
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,378	I think the guy with mountain lion record kills used a 7.63mm C96 Mauser. A 357mg would be my choice for both. 357 is not my favorite but will do the job, and lighter to carry than my favorite a m25 S&W 45Colt.

April 16, 2021, 01:04 PM	#70
RETG Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2009 Location: Somewhere in Idaho, near WY Posts: 507	Old thread, but I'll jump in... Since you are worried about black bears and mountain lions, I would ask the size of your black bears. Example, when I lived in SE UT, the blacks up in the Lasal Mountains were small, the .40 I carried loaded with 200 gr Buffalo would take one down; however, never had a problem with them; they would rather run than stand their ground. As for mountain lions, the ones I KNEW OF that I ran across, were easily chased away with three rounds in the ground just in front of them. However, I'm pretty sure a 200 gr .40 would take them down with no problem. However, it's their home, I prefer to get them running vs. shooting them. __________________ I give MY OPINION (not often) based on many years shooting at, other than paper targets. I will not debate my experience vs. your experience based on dreams and "what ifs." I'm 73; I'm too damn old to care.

April 17, 2021, 08:39 PM	#71
osbornk Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2012 Location: Mountains of Appalachia Posts: 1,598	A few years ago, I asked the president of the local bear hunting club what they used to hunt bears with. They use dogs to chase them up trees and then use Ruger 357 Magnums to shoot the bears out (a few use 30-30s) I figure if it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me so I carry a 3576 Magnum snubby (they use longer barrels). It onlu holds 5 but I'm not sure I could shoot more than that with the recoil I get. We have black bears here.