National Bullet Company --- Problems and news

[kestak]

Greetings,

+1 here victims of that company. I ordered 3 weeks ago, was just able to reach them last Wednesday after having tried twice each day. They said it will ship friday. did not receive yet the package.

I guess Friday afternoon I'll place a call to my credit card to reverse the charges + to my state General Attorney via the Sherriff department Internet fraud squad.

Thank you

[oldbummer]

Wished I would have read these posts before I ordered from them.
Thanks

[GASCHECK]

NBC Customers:

Whatever you do, DO NOT wait too long to contact your credut card company about getting a chargeback. VISA and others have a time limit on making a claim, one or two months, I think.
BUT, if you go beyond that, you still may be able to get help. I called my bank that issued the card, (don't call VISA) and got a rep that flatly said I was out of luck. She was totaly uninterested. So I wrote a letter. I told them I charged a lot to VISA and " . . .I hope to continue to do so." That got results. A veiled threat actually. Was well worth the trouble to get almost $100 back! So WRITE, if necessary. It worked for me.
Gascheck

[DarrenG]

Man, I wish I had found this thread 3 weeks ago. No replies to phone calls or e-mails. NBC sure is fast to charge your credit card though. Looks like its time to call Visa.

DarrenG

[DarrenG]

Well, this company is a real piece of work. 4 e-mails and 3 phone calls and they still refuse to reply. Is there any legal action that can be taken?
DarrenG

[kestak]

Greetings,

Do a complaint to the Ohio State Attorney. There are already over 60 complains.

I printed the pages and sent them to my credit card company when I disputed the charges. I got a call from their dept of frauds and they asked me more informations. I gave them here and THR where there are more complaints.

Best legal actions is to dispute the charges with your credit card. Call them right away and told them you did not get the delivered material as promised.

Thank you

[byronw999]

Wish I had seen this post also before ordering from these toads.. I placed my 1st order with them 6-8 months ago and it went fine. Got the stuff in about a week.

Placed a 2nd order on 11/1 for 500 45/70 lead bullets. Called 2 weeks later when they didnt arrive and person said they were out of stock and should be shipped in a week... Here it is over a month later and still no bullets. I've called 4-6 times a day for the last 2 days. No answer..Just the machine.

Meanwhile they got paid right away from PayPal on 11/1 Just got off the phone with paypal and am disputing the charges. I'm also gonna file a complaint with the Ohio BBB and attorney general .:barf:

[DarrenG]

I notified the Cleveland BBB last week. They replied they will get to work on it. Anyone have # for PayPal without going through all the options?
DarrenG

[zap]

No....I'm going through all the options. I think that is all you can do with Paypal. Dispute then follow it with a claim.

[brickeyee]

"VISA and others have a time limit on making a claim, one or two months, I think."

federal law gives you 60 days after the charge forst appears on your bill.

[tripwire-inc]

i ordered from national on laborday in 06 i just took them to small claims court and won they didnt even show or write the court now i have to have the sherifs deparment reposes my bullets the court awarded me 2 times what i ordered for my troubles lets see if this works i also called BBB

[zap]

I went through the claims process with PayPal and they awarded in my favor...and I was refunded in full two days ago.

[kestak]

Greetings,

Got refunded by VISA with no problem. I wonder how many complaints it takes for a credit card company to revoke a merchant account...

Thank you

[jjohnson]

Yes, me too on wishing I'd seen this thread before. Mine went through Paypal a couple weeks ago.

Zap - or anybody - tips on how to go through the claims process? I'd appreciate any help, don't want to go to small claims court, just want my money back and NEVER AGAIN to do business with these folks.

Thanks in advance.

jjohnson

[Mac Truck]

Meet Mac Sanford. Latest Victim. I sure wish I would have seen this thread before placing our order. We just opened an indoor shooting range in Houston, and I was going to use NBC as our sole source for ammo. They bent me over royally, and I'm NOT going to take it sitting still. I've worked too hard in my life to have some scoundrel sucker me out of my livelihood. This thread has some great info, thanks, fellas!

[Mac Truck]

Just filed a written complaint with the BATF, Ohio State Attorney General's Office, FBI, and BBB...you know, for good measure.

[Nevadajim775]

I recently ordered 230 grain LRN from National and soon afterwards learned about all the problems people have had with them. They refused to return my phone calls and/or my emails. I checked with the BBB in Cleveland Ohio and learned about all the numerous complaints filed. I also filed a complaint. I then contacted the Eastlake Police Department in Ohio to file a criminal complaint against the company based on what I believe to be criminal fraud. The officer who I spoke with advised that his agency no longer did business with NBC because of their very poor quality products. He agreed to contact the owner(s) to try and work out a solution for me. In a very short time I received a call from "ken" who told me that the particular bullet I ordered was out of stock and asked if I would like to wait about a week, or wanted a refund. I asked for an immediate refund to which he agreed. In checking my bank card shortly afterwards I found that a complete refund had been wired to my bank.

Someone asked about a source of copper plated bullets. Shooters here in Northern Nevada have had very good results with the products from Xtreme Bullets located in Carson City/Moundhouse Nevada. Check out their site at www.Xtremebullets.com One of the owners is a very active shooter up here with plates and pins.

[DarrenG]

Well, I spoke with a rep from PayPal yesterday afternoon and filed a complaint. I get home today and find that PayPal had gotten a full refund from NBC. Damn, that was fast. NBC must be afraid of PP. They got results quick. My guess is PP is about to cut them off.

DarrenG

[BluesBear]

We just opened an indoor shooting range in Houston, and I was going to use NBC as our sole source for ammo.

Be thankful, very thankful you didn't get your ammo.
I can't imagine any range offering it's customers amo that looked like the craptastic junk I have gotten from NBC.
What I got looked like that yard sale ammo you always find at a gunshow. You know, the ammo that looks like it was loaded by a first time reloader in 1960 and stored in a coffee can ever since. Someone needs to inform NBC that primers are NOT supposed to be above the case head!
And that a box of 50 should contain FIFTY rounds!
not 49.
not 48.

What I don't understand is why they are still sending out e'mail sale advertisements THREE times a week???
They seem to think it's okay to offer 20% off on products they DON'T HAVE!

How in the hell are these guys still in business?


Oh yeah one more thing NBC needs to learn...
You can not nickel plate LEAD!!!

[Schiltkraut]

National Bullet's articles of incorporation were revoked by the Ohio Secretary of State on January 4, 2007 for failure to file tax reports or pay taxes. [Document ID no. 200700580048].

The Ohio Attorney General's Office has logged nearly 80 complaints in just the last 18 months against this business. (New cases coming in 1 or 2 a day.) Virtually all of them for "failure to deliver product or service."

The Cleveland office of the Better Business Bureau lists about 75 complaints going back over the last three years.

In April 2007 Ken Bayko, the owner of National Bullet, transferred title to his home out of his own name and solely into the name of his wife, Norma Bayko. That residence is located at 34971 Glen Drive, Eastlake, Ohio 44095. Home phone (440) 951-7111.

All of the above is public record.

There could be other reasons for the title transfer on Bayko's house, but the one that comes to mind is he's trying to shield his assets from creditors.

Although Bayko's website displays the Visa and MasterCard logos, he does not accept such credit card payments. Instead, he does everything through PayPal. Maybe they should take notice and quit enabling this ongoing fraud.

If you Google "Ken Bayko," "National Bullet," or "nbcmfg.com" (more about this last one below), you'll find dozens, if not hundreds, of victims who paid for goods which were never received. The story is always the same: No answer to repeated phone calls or emails. Eventually, when you do hear from Ken, you are stalled with promises of refunds, checks in the mail, or products which never appear. After 45 days of this you find out it's too late to pursue a refund through PayPal.

On August 11, 2007 Bayko registered a new domain name - NBC Manufacturing - as nbcmfg.com. Once again, the website makes it appear that he accepts bank credit cards and even Google Checkout. Guess again -- he is still pulling his con with the assistance of PayPal.

Unfortunately, I didn't learn about National Bullet before I placed my order and paid through PayPal. I have gotten only one response to my numerous calls and emails to Bayko. In a brief email he said my order will ship out "around this coming Thursday," which is today, December 20, 2007. What do you think my chances are of ever seeing the merchandise?

I'm not overly optimistic about seeking a refund from PayPal. You see, their Buyer Complaint Policy reads in part: "If we find the complaint in your favor, the amount of the payment, if available from the seller, will be transferred back to your account." The increasing rate of incoming complaints at the AG's office leads me to suspect that Bayko's trying to take in as much as he can before he cleans out his PayPal account. That would mean that the funds "available from the seller" would be zero. Since Bayko no longer has real estate in his name, you'd have to literally find his assets in order to get anything through a civil action.

As you can see, in this case the PayPal buyer protection we hear so much about is actually only about as good as a used condom.

Tune in later to see how this turns out.

[DarrenG]

I was wondering why I never saw a charge back on my credit card......
DarrenG

[zxcvbob]

How about making this a sticky?

[ludwig1138]

34971 Glen Drive, Eastlake, Ohio 44095

Google Earth shows the guy has got a nice big house as a result of his scams.

[kestak]

Greetings,

That guy is playing a dangerous and losing game:
1 - If it is bemonstrated he transfered his house to the name of his wife to avoid to pay damages because of criminal activities, he may still loses the house because she is his wife (the closest familly you can have). If he would have sold to a non familly member, the house could not have been ceized.
2 - He'll certainly go to prison because fraud is a felony.
3 - She'll go to prison because she'll be an accomplice by accepting the transfer of the goods.
4 - I know shooters (CCW holders) are the most non criminal statistically citizens. But guys, seriously, I don't know you, but I would not want to piss off anybody who has a gun. And ALL his customers have a gun. hehehehehehehe

Thank you

[Schiltkraut]

Not much of a surprise -- National Bullet didn't ship my order yesterday. Ken Bayko didn't return my emails or the phone message I left with his wife at his home number.

While checking out nationalbullet.com this morning, I was amused to see that Bayko is offering 20% off and free shipping for orders over $100 from now until Christmas. How can he afford such a deal, given current lead and copper costs? Simple: You send the money and he doesn't send anything.

In looking around on the other forums, I was amazed at how many people have been cheated and how long this has been going on. He not only bones internet buyers, stiffs the Ohio Tax Department, but now also has a lien recorded against him by the Ohio Workers' Compensation Bureau on 11/20/2007. This cloacal parasite needs to be educated.

Since National Bullet's articles of incorporation were revoked, Bayko is no longer shielded by the corporate veil. This means that he is personally liable for any damages awarded. Somebody needs to take this guy to court and spank him a little bit. Maybe if we rounded up documentation from all the people who've been cheated (on all the different forums), we could interest a local attorney to file multiple actions against Bayko/National Bullet. I'm sure the total dollar amount is considerable. In order to satisfy any judgments obtained, the court could seize Bayko's inventory, equipment, fixtures, personal cars/vessels/furniture, bank/savings/investment accounts, and even the jewelry he's wearing.

While we're on the topic, there are more than enough victims to make up a class action where PayPal, Inc. is concerned. One thing that's clear from the various forum posts is that a LOT of people have already complained to PayPal about National Bullet. Given this information, how can they justify their continued complicity and involvement with this scam?