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Old February 18, 2019, 07:47 PM   #1
ReloadKy
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Need help with accuracy problems Rem 700 .270

I have an early 80's Remington Model 700 ADL in .270 Win. This rifle was my fathers and was passed down to me when he passed when I was 9 years old. I hunted with it for years until I decided to buy a synthetic stock rifle for hunting when the weather conditions were not ideal for abusing a family heirloom. I can remember when I was in my teens and early 20's getting sub moa accuracy using Remington 140 gr Core Lokt Ultra's. Since I have started reloading for this rifle I have tried at least 4 different bullets at different weights and probably 6 different powders to try and find a load for this rifle. I can get the gun to shoot a sub moa group then when I try to repeat the same load I will get a 3 inch group and then try it again and get a 2 inch group. I know the most common answer is going to be that I can't shoot. I do not claim to be an expert by any means but with other reloads I can commonly get repeatable sub moa groups with several different rifles. Any suggestions on things that I might should try to do with this rifle? Again it is a Rem model 700 ADL wood stock .270 Win. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old February 18, 2019, 09:41 PM   #2
big al hunter
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Is the barrel free floating, or does it have a pressure point at the end of the fore stock? Has the stock dried out due to being in a moisture controlled environment, ( safe with dehumidifier)? Are the stock screws tight? Is the scope loose?
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Old February 18, 2019, 10:38 PM   #3
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If it has a scope it maybe walking around and need a new one or this scope sent in to get rebuilt .
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Old February 19, 2019, 04:46 AM   #4
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accuracy

As the rifle has some age to it, first thing I'd do is clean that bore down to bare metal with some type of serious copper cutter and maybe even some mild bore polish like JB bore paste. My ADL/.270 from the late 80's (poly stock 22" barrel, parkerized finish) has a very coarse bore and copper fouls heavily. Accuracy is very good, even with factory ammo, to about 20 rds, then degrades quickly. I should have traded it away, but have hunted it enough that I developed an attachment. A really pretty walnut ADL stock I got in a trade has added to that attraction. Next I'd check the tightness of my action screws. I might even tighten them down with a torque wrench so as to be even, say to 45 lbs or so for a start. I'd dismount the scope and check my scope base screws, remount the scope and check my ring screws as well. Then I'd go and shoot some groups. If still wonky......

I'd slap a scope on there that I trust that is performing well on another rifle, and shoot some more. If still wonky........

I'd put some additional "up" tension on the tip forend where the factory normally has a bump in the barrel channel to effect same. I'd do that by shimming with a piece of credit card. If the rifle responds, I'd epoxy that shim in place. If still wonky.........

I'd "redneck free float" by shimming the front action screw with a bread wrapper tab and re-torque. That should create the temporary effect of free floating the barrel. The forend shim should no longer have any tension on it, nor the factory speed bump in the barrel channel. I'd shoot more groups, if the rifle responds , I'd explore free floating the barrel by opening the barrel channel, and bedding the action. As I KNOW I would screw that up, I'd have somebody that knows what they're doing handle that.

Good luck with it. No way would I trade or sell my Dad's rifle.
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Old February 19, 2019, 05:42 AM   #5
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Another factor could be parallax. If you cheek weld is not the same after each shot your target or cross hairs will move along with your head.
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Old February 19, 2019, 05:44 AM   #6
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Have you tried imr7828 in it?
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Old February 19, 2019, 07:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Another factor could be parallax. If you cheek weld is not the same after each shot your target or cross hairs will move along with your head.
Parallax won't cause more than 1/4" difference in POI at 100 yards


I'd try some factory loads in it just for reference and to eliminate the possibility that your hand loads aren't the problem. A good barrel cleaning would be next and it never hurts to double check that all scope mounting and action screws are tight. Sometimes the magazine box is installed incorrectly and binds the action, especially on ADL's.

Moving a PROVEN scope from another rifle and trying that will also tell you if the problem is the scope.
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Old February 19, 2019, 10:20 AM   #8
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I think I’d swap out the scope first thing, but cleaning the barrel sure can’t hurt. My experiences with bad scopes sounded like the OP’s, with decent groups followed by bad groups - just random grouping.
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Old February 19, 2019, 12:49 PM   #9
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You have a mechanical issue of some kind.

Receiver screws, bad scope/loose , bedding chaning, mount loose, or the barrel fouled.

The best cleaner for Carbon is Carbon Killer 2000. Shoot the gun a few rounds, drizzle (eye dropper) said product on a nylon brush, put it through, drizzle again when it comes out the bore, 5 strokes, drizzle at the bore and then pull back through.

Follow by a patch, then repeat until it comes out very pale or light bluish.

Which it is? Could be any (the wild groups tend to indicate loose screws bad scope)

I had a family 270 dating back to the 60s that while cleaned never was cleaned with new products.

Reloads helped it, cleaning helped it. Likely yours needs cleaning but the wild stuff is most likely the other areas.

You might also try Bore Tech Eliminator, that is a copper cleaner (same drill as the CK2k procedure wise) but it also has a good carbon cleaner (not as good as CK2k)

While not the main problem after all those years it will benefit from the above two.,
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Old February 19, 2019, 01:26 PM   #10
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I had a .270 BDL mfg'd around the same time this one was. My rifle started doing the same thing yours is doing. It suddenly started shooting poor groups. It ended up being a bedding problem where the stock was touching. I ended up putting a small amount of bedding compound back near the receiver (about 6" worth) and inletted the rest to allow no contact. It went right back to shooting good again. That may or may not be your problem, so I'd at least do as mentioned above and try some factory loads in it. If you have another scope to put on there that's also a "free" test to see if it's the scope or not. I'd suggest as a first step you try changing the scope and shooting some factory rounds in it. If that doesn't bring it around, then do the bedding as described. Since it's alternating between good and poor groups with the same load, I strongly suspect a bedding problem which can be effected by temp and humidity as each changes. Good luck.
Note: as mentioned above, parallax is very minor at 100yds if your heads on the stock. Very minor. Having the problem on an intermittent bases is the clue here.
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Old February 19, 2019, 01:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Parallax won't cause more than 1/4" difference in POI at 100 yards
jmr40, how do you come to this conclusion? When I get a new scope, I put it on a lead sled and aim at something 100 yards away so I can determine at what setting the scope has no parralax (farthest off I've seen was at 100 yards, the dial had to be set at 360 yards to get rid of all paralax! ). Without touching the rifle at all, i move my face around and see if the crosshairs move or stay in place. When it's off, I've seen the crosshairs move around on the target by much more than a 1/4".
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Old February 19, 2019, 02:17 PM   #12
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Sounds like a bedding issue. Most likely too. The receiver is moving in the stock on each shot.
Had a Tasco scope that through a bore sighter I could watch the reticle bounce back and forth horizontally. No scope will cause a change in group size, but if the scope is damaged the POI will change or you won't be able to shoot any kind of group.
Start tightening all the stock screws. Then the scope's screws, including the bases. Be an idea to glass bed the receiver and moisture seal the barrel channel too. Then try the Remington 140 gr Core Lokt Ultra's again.
Free floating a barrel guarantees nothing.
"...tried at least 4 different bullets at different weights..." Pick one and work up a load.
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Old February 19, 2019, 05:16 PM   #13
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ReloadKy, I have a model 700 in 270 Win, made at about the some time as yours. A few years ago, I started seeing larger groups, groups moving around, and a few flyers. I found that the scope mounting screws were loose. These are the screws that attach the scope mounts to the receiver. Tightening them back up solved the problem. Good Luck.
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Old February 19, 2019, 07:16 PM   #14
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To add in, our 270 was doing 1.5 inch groups with hand-loads and consistently.

After the cleaning sub 1 MOA by an 1/8 and will do that for 5 shot groups.

If its erratic, another cause. It can be any of the mechanical issue but you can eliminate the loose actions screw, loose scope rings screws, loose mount screws easily.

Bad scope swap out.

If all those produce no results then the bedding or receiver fit become the target.

No once can say with any certainly exactly which one. Process of elimination.
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Old February 19, 2019, 07:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
I'd try some factory loads in it just for reference
Absolutely! I see this a lot. Customer comes in, rifle won't shoot worth beans. First question: what ammo are you shooting? Handloads? Try factory ammo. No matter what else you find out, factory ammo will give you a reference point. Shoots factory ammo well but not handloads? Well, sorry, you aren't loading ammo properly. Shoots factory ammo poorly? OK, now we know we have an issue. So first thing, clean the rifle, make sure the screws are tight, then shoot some factory ammo for groups.
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Old February 19, 2019, 08:13 PM   #16
ReloadKy
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Thanks for all of the advice. i have checked all of the stock screws with my FAT wrench and they are plenty tight. So I am going to take scope off and check base screws (leupold bases). The scope is a 15 year old Nikon Prostaff. I plan to give it another super good cleaning after checking all screws and then attempt to swap scopes or check bedding. I have never messed with bedding a rifle, so if any of you could point me to a reliable resource I would appreciate it.
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Old February 19, 2019, 08:42 PM   #17
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The social regressive on YouTube has a decent video on glass bedding a stock. Also I think that there are probably a wealth of videos and reading material to be had for free out there for that.
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Old February 19, 2019, 08:50 PM   #18
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I also bedded a Remington 700 and floated the barrel about ten years ago. In 300 RUM.

I used a Dremel to get rid of the pressure point in the end of the stock. Then I used a wooden dowel that closely fitted the Barrel channel and wrapped it in Sand paper. I used that back and forth to open the Bartel channel evenly on both sides.

I used Brownells Acraglass. Back then you could buy the cleaning, release agent and epoxy resin all in one kit. It's not really all that complicated. But it's kind of anpaun in the but to seal up every nook and cranny. Making sure you don't permanently epoxy the barreled action into the stock. It worked out well for me..

I went from shooting 1.25 inch groups with that rifle to shooting consistently sub 1 inch with that 300 RUM. With 180 grain Nosler BT and IMR 4350
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Old February 21, 2019, 05:49 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ReloadKy View Post
Thanks for all of the advice. i have checked all of the stock screws with my FAT wrench and they are plenty tight. So I am going to take scope off and check base screws (leupold bases). The scope is a 15 year old Nikon Prostaff. I plan to give it another super good cleaning after checking all screws and then attempt to swap scopes or check bedding. I have never messed with bedding a rifle, so if any of you could point me to a reliable resource I would appreciate it.
Glad to see you're using your Fat Wrench and not just cranking down the screws. More stocks have been ruined from people cranking down on the screws and crushing the wood. I think 35 inch pounds should be correct. 15 inch pounds on the scope mount screws.

As was mentioned, give the gun a good cleaning. If you are using a copper removal cleaner and have a brass jag, you will get false positives so try to find a non reactive jag. Bore Tech Eliminator is what I use and they also sell the non-reactive jags.

Finally, if the Core Lokt's were shooting sub moa then go get a box of them and try again. If it shoots well then you have your baseline and you can stop trying to fix a rifle that isn't broke.
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Old February 21, 2019, 07:51 AM   #20
ReloadKy
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I think I have found my problem. I tried to slide a dollar bill under between the barrel and the stock. On one side of the rifle the dollar will slide between the two just fine. On the other side the I can not even get a dollar bill between the stock and the rifle barrel. Stock is contacting the barrel at the end of the fore end.
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Old February 21, 2019, 08:15 AM   #21
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One group "sub-MOA" + one group "3 MOA" + one group "2 MOA". 1 + 3+2= You have 6 divided by 3 equals 2 MOA.
Your best hope is to shoot some of the previously accurate ammo to get a muzzle velocity range and then try to replicate the load with your handloading. You may find that the previous load is now a 2MOA shooter vs what you had before. If so, you may have something going on mechanically with the rifle/optic/operator.
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Old February 21, 2019, 09:02 AM   #22
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On the other side the I can not even get a dollar bill between the stock and the rifle barrel. Stock is contacting the barrel at the end of the fore end.
Sounds like some sandpaper and a wood dowel are in your future. If there is a built in bump at the tip of the forend of the stock, leave it. Sometimes a little up pressure there helps accuracy. Remove a little wood from the sides until the dollar bill slides easily except at the bump in the forend. Shoot it with factory and hand loads. If the problem is solved, sand a little more out and seal the barrel channel and other hidden areas. If that doesn't work, take the factory pressure point out and try it free floated. If accuracy improves you may want to glass bed the action and take a little more wood out of the barrel channel.
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Old February 21, 2019, 09:22 AM   #23
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Uneven barrel contact in a wood stock can certainly cause erratic shooting.
Glass or pillar bed and free float would be the treatment there.

Anecdote Alert
A guy here experienced erratic shooting. His mentor asked him if he were sure his action and scope screws were tight.
He replied "They're tight, it doesn't rattle at all when I shake it."
His scope base screws were indeed loose.
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Old February 22, 2019, 12:23 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReloadKy View Post
I think I have found my problem. I tried to slide a dollar bill under between the barrel and the stock. On one side of the rifle the dollar will slide between the two just fine. On the other side the I can not even get a dollar bill between the stock and the rifle barrel. Stock is contacting the barrel at the end of the fore end.
There may be an easy fix. Loosen the action screws, briskly tap the butt of the rifle on the floor a couple of times and with the rifle still vertical, tighten the screws back up to 35 inch lbs. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You might get lucky.
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Old February 23, 2019, 07:58 AM   #25
ms6852
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"Parallax won't cause more than 1/4" difference in POI at 100 yards"

@JMR40 normally I would agree with your statement, accept this time. First, the OP does not state what distance he is shooting at, and secondly parallax does become an issue if he is using a rifle scope with a magnification of 10X or higher.
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Last edited by ms6852; February 23, 2019 at 08:05 AM.
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