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Old February 15, 2019, 04:07 PM   #51
reddog81
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Originally Posted by rural12 View Post
Duh...that is not too deep...but if you push it further down in the case, it increases pressure.

Y'all can think it was a double charge all you want...I really don't care what you think as I know it was not. There was another issue present...I suspect that he seated that bullet too deep...might have been a residual chunk of lead in the die that pushed it deeper and he did not notice it...not sure..but that case was not double charged. There were 2 experienced reloader's present when the cases were charged...both of us did not miss a double charge when only 5rds were loaded. As I said, I was not really paying attention when he seated the bullets...consequently, I cannot attest to that...only suspect what might have gone wrong. BTW, these were not "target" wadcutter loads...these were pretty stout loaded. First 3 shot fine...4th one, not so much...5th round powder charge was correct when pulled down after incident.
If the bullet was seated that far below the case rim it would be very obvious. A double charge of a fast pistol powder such as Bullseye or anything similar is not easily detectable by looking into the case or any other method other than weighing the charge.
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Old February 15, 2019, 05:14 PM   #52
F. Guffey
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Y'all can think it was a double charge all you want...I really don't care what you think as I know it was not.
rural12, I am the only reloader that weighs his cases, bullets, powder and primers. I am the only reloaders that knows the gross weight of the loaded round when I finish. I am the one that is not entertained by not knowing what is going to happen when I pull the trigger.

The one thing I do know is I did not chamber a round with a double charge. I have enough cases to match the weight of the cases even if I loaded 1,000+ cases. The very last chance a reloader has to protect himself from himself happens just before he chambers the round.

It reminds me of a famous poem that ended with a quote that that went something like "OH what might have been". I can not imagine what it would be like to render one of my pistols scrap. And then there are rifles, I have test fired rifles that I purchased with the understanding they were suspect. It took me a whole to determine what they considered suspect. I used risky loads to test the suspect receivers;

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Old February 16, 2019, 04:26 PM   #53
J.G. Terry
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Dillon 550, for example

My experience is that it is much easier to get squib loads with a 550. Hand indexing is not foolproof. Also, lube in a seating die will alter the COA. I really think this is less so with Dillon dies. Personally, I'd see if it were possible to make a round with double charge using AAC-7 powder. With the mechanical advantage of a press all kinds of stuff can happen. Break down the test cartridge at the end.
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Old February 17, 2019, 11:18 AM   #54
F. Guffey
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Is it possible that some snarky folks go through life with full Huggies trying to enlighten others?
I have had reloaders standing at the next shooting table with revolvers locked up because of a bullet that almost made it out of the cylinder and almost into the barrel. The shooter could not pull the trigger, he could not pull the hammer back, he could not rotate the cylinder nor could he move the cylinder out. Again: I put my stuff up, I offered to help. In an effort to him I drove the bullet back into the case/cylinder and then emptied his unfired rounds.

I gave him his pistol back!

And then? He immediately started shoving 6 more 357 Magnum rounds into his cylinder. He did not know if he had powder in each of the 6 rounds, he did not know if he had too much powder nor did he know if he had enough powder.

I could not convince him, with discipline, he could have determined how much powder was in each loaded round. We offered to help him with his reloading, we offered to loan and or give him equipment necessary to improve his reloading,

We offered him all the ammo he could shoot at no cost to him; he was convinced there is no way a reloader could determine the amount powder in a loaded round.

My neighbor/most disciplined reloaders made it very clear to him he was not going to stand next to him and shoot reloades that were loaded that carelessly. As expected the shooter with the locked up pistol got mad and then left the range.

We went to the range bosses to explain what happened. My neighbor started by saying "if he tells you we said this and or that or he tells you we did this and or that, do not argue with him because we did say this and that and we did this and that'.

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Last edited by F. Guffey; February 17, 2019 at 11:21 AM. Reason: rearranging
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Old February 17, 2019, 05:36 PM   #55
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One of the best decisions a person can make is to use a low density powder that takes up a lot of space and still reaches velocity figures that are acceptable.

9mm is a case that would really be hard to double charge, but it can probably be done with the densest powders available. By using lower density powders an equivalent charge will actually spill over, and a bullet couldn't seat.

Revolver cases are harder to deal with, IIRC I once put three charges into a .357 case to see how much it could hold. If a high density powder is used on a normal to light load a double charge may not be noticable to some people. Using a low density, large flake powder, the double charge would be obvious, and maybe even impossible.

Safety is my number one concern when reloading. It would break my heart to blow up a gun. OTOH, I knew a guy who used to brag about the guns he has blown up, and he always used them in a sermon for us other guys.

Quote:
man, you shouldn't ever use bullseye in a .44 magnum. I just blew up a super blackhawk with bullseye. I was really careful, I used load data from the 1971 reloading specs. All of those other ones had lower maximum charges.

Stupid sierra bullets were probably too hard. That's why you shouldn't ever use anything but hornady.
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Old February 17, 2019, 05:44 PM   #56
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I would expect that this kind of event could induce a bad case of flinching.
You would think so. but think about all of the guns that rob leatham blew up trying to make major in his small bores.

I had a case head fail in a glock and it vented into the grip. Left my hand tingling for a while. Nahh, didn't develop a flinch. But that certainly isn't the same thing as having a gun go to pieces.
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Old February 18, 2019, 11:10 AM   #57
F. Guffey
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Safety is my number one concern when reloading. It would break my heart to blow up a gun. OTOH, I knew a guy who used to brag about the guns he has blown up, and he always used them in a sermon for us other guys.
We have members that exalt Sisk of Iowa Park, Texas for sheading barrels as if it was an accomplishment. When Sisk blew the end of the barrel up he should have stopped.

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Old February 18, 2019, 08:09 PM   #58
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I think that I remember hearing about him. The same issue, pushing, pushing, gotta go past the limits.

Making a mistake and blowing up a gun is one thing. Being reckless is another. Then there is just stupid behavior, and there is poor control of the process.

I can't really fault a guy for making a costly mistake because he something didn't work just right. Mistakes happen. I hate plumbing and wiring because mistakes happen.

I don't allow for mistakes in my reloading. I have done everything that I possibly can to ensure that the process is double or even quadruple checked before that round goes in the box. I do everything that I can. If I have to say 'no, i'm not feeling right today, maybe tomorrow' I will.

When someone fools around with load data, tries to make miracle velocities, or even worse, just works in a thoughtless and careless manner, I'm not so willing to pay the guy the respect and admiration that he thinks that he deserves.

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don't tell me what to do to be safe. I'm the one who still has all of his fingers.
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Old February 18, 2019, 08:15 PM   #59
Savvy_Jack
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Yeap, it makes for a bad day. This is one reason I use rifle powders (44-40), or a powder where a double charge will over flow the case (other calibers). I'd rather spend extra money on powder than to lose a gun!!!
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