.45ACP 230 LRN & Power Pistol

Carmady · February 10, 2019, 08:00 PM

I have a bunch of Power Pistol and I reload with lead bullets. Not the ideal combination, but that's how it is.

Found something that said 6.5gr of PP and a 230gr LRN is around 850 fps and close to the hardball load, so I want to make 100 and try them out.

Has anyone loaded something close to this, and what were your results?

Marco Califo · February 10, 2019, 11:08 PM

No. Don't. You can download Alliant's (maker of Power Pistol) load data booklet here:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/resourc...er_Catalog.pdf

They do not list any 45 ACP Powder Pistol data for cast bullets of any weight. On the other hand, they list lead bullet loads for all other powders (Unique, Bullseye, Herco, BE-86, Red and Green Dot for 45 ACP. Obviously Alliant has a reason. I think it is because Power Pistol is a high energy, performance handgun powder, used for heavy bullets and upper velocities. That is the opposite of what you want with lead.

You can ask Alliant: http://www.alliantpowder.com/questions/default.aspx
They do answer emails, and will send you loads if appropriate.

kmw1954 · February 10, 2019, 11:38 PM

2 suggestions, if you know another loader maybe you can swap that powder otherwise pick up some plated bullets or RMR jacketed bullets are also inexpensive and use it up.

Nick_C_S · February 11, 2019, 10:33 AM

Carmandy, I agree with both previous posts. At least, in principle. As you stated yourself, Power Pistol and lead bullets is "not the ideal combination." And if you can somehow change the combination, do so.

For whatever reason, if you can't change your bullet/powder combination - and here's where I deviate a little - it may be possible to load decent ammo with your combo. Yes, Power Pistol is a high energy, high performance propellant (I love the stuff - one of my favorites); and that doesn't bode well for what you're doing. But one of its positive characteristics is that you can turn it down and it still seems to run consistent and clean - at least, better than most of its intermediate burn rate contemporaries.

Do your own research, but it appears from what I have gleaned, starting in about the 5.5 grain range should be a decent starting point. QuickLoad yields very modest pressure numbers at 5.5.

That said, I'd still recommend - like the others - to make a change; either the propellant or the projectile.

Carmady · February 11, 2019, 05:55 PM

I have searched on this, and here's what I've saved. Note that one is "Alliant per TFL." These are all for 230LRN and Power Pistol.

PP/6.0 Start Alliant per TFL
PP/6.5 MAX Alliant per TFL
PP/6.1 Start 829 fps per Lee #TL-452-230-TC
PP/6.7 MAX 927 fps ditto
6.3-7.0 Lyman 49 per net
PP/6.5 = hardball per net

T. O'Heir · February 12, 2019, 02:40 PM

"...close to the hardball load..." You do not want that. Said 'hardball load' uses a jacketed bullet. What you need is a cast bullet load. Alliant doesn't put those on line for some reason. Might be one in their manual though.
"...pick up some plated bullets..." Those are not jacketed bullets. Plated bullets use cast bullet data.

Carmady · February 12, 2019, 06:30 PM

Quote:

"...close to the hardball load..." You do not want that. Said 'hardball load' uses a jacketed bullet. What you need is a cast bullet load.

The PP/6.5gr "close to hardball" load was for a 230gr LRN.

kmw1954 · February 12, 2019, 07:10 PM

"...pick up some plated bullets..." Those are not jacketed bullets. Plated bullets use cast bullet data.

Interesting in that I always seem to get the response quoting Berry's FAQ or Xtreme which states to use lead or jacketed data of the same weight with the implication that bullet material is irrelevant and you can use either one.. Some of those arguments have become pretty heated over the past few years.

pete2 · February 14, 2019, 12:06 PM

My 2 cents-----------I like faster powders in the .45. WST, Bullseye, 700X, etc. I normally shoot 200 gr cast RN. RN because I also shoot a 625 revolver. 200 gr cast SWC in Bullseye. I have shot 230 RN ans 225 TC cast, the faster powders always seemed more accurate to me. You may not get 850 with WST but I think you can with Bullseye.

Dufus · February 14, 2019, 12:57 PM

Quote:

They do not list any 45 ACP Powder Pistol data for cast bullets of any weight. On the other hand, they list lead bullet loads for all other powders (Unique, Bullseye, Herco, BE-86, Red and Green Dot for 45 ACP. Obviously Alliant has a reason. I think it is because Power Pistol is a high energy, performance handgun powder, used for heavy bullets and upper velocities. That is the opposite of what you want with lead.

Alliant doesn't list PP with 45 ACP & cast, but Lyman sure are hell does in the "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition". Alliant prolly didn't test it because Speer doesn't make one.

Heavy bullets and "upper" velocities won't go into the 45 ACP.

Use the right lube and you can shoot almost any velocity you want provided the alloy is suited to it. I don't shoot anything above 18 BHN.

res45 · February 15, 2019, 05:43 AM

If you want to shoot cast lead in handguns and have options for powders not listed on the powder mfg. website with cast lead bullets get yourself a copy of the Lyman Cast bullet manual #4, there are loads using Power Pistol for 200 up to 230 gr. loads in the manual. I picked up 4 lbs. of Power Pistol a couple years ago for $30 at a sale and have used it in my cast lead 45 ACP loads with Lee and NOE cast lead bullets with excellent results in both my Hi Point 45 carbine and Ruger P90 handgun. Below is one of my targets from the carbine using the NOE 220 gr. RN HP bullet I cast from 50/50 and PC, the other is the Lee 200 gr. SWC. The bullet will actually run around 230 grs. without the HP pins installed but I much prefer the HP version.

8 shots at 30 yds.

10 shots at 30 yds.

As far as plated bullets you can run the Berry's plated bullets at normal 45 ACP velocity as they are rated to 1250 fps.

J.G. Terry · February 18, 2019, 07:48 AM

Call Alliant: I kinda got curious about Power Pistol and 230gr. cast bullets. Personally, I'd go with something on the order of Unique. I cannot see any benefit of using PP with 230 cast bullets. My favorite for 200 and 230gr. bullets is Bullseye for target loads.

Also, I'd check out Lyman's data in recent editions of their loading manual.

I have called Alliant and gotten help for their powders. Guy spent some time but came up with the data. Give them a call. If the combination of PP and 230gr. bullets won't work it will come from the source.

dogdoc · February 19, 2019, 03:13 PM

Power pistol is my pistol powder for lead bullets in 44 spy and 44 mag(midrange loads). Tons of data out there. Just look. Much data in handloader magazine . Great publication. You can buy single issues in digital form. Just find a recent one handloader number 310 October 2017 has much data with power pistol and 230 lead. Google it!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

February 10, 2019, 08:00 PM	#1
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	.45ACP 230 LRN & Power Pistol I have a bunch of Power Pistol and I reload with lead bullets. Not the ideal combination, but that's how it is. Found something that said 6.5gr of PP and a 230gr LRN is around 850 fps and close to the hardball load, so I want to make 100 and try them out. Has anyone loaded something close to this, and what were your results?

February 10, 2019, 11:08 PM	#2
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	Alliant says Don't. Ask them why No. Don't. You can download Alliant's (maker of Power Pistol) load data booklet here: http://www.alliantpowder.com/resourc...er_Catalog.pdf They do not list any 45 ACP Powder Pistol data for cast bullets of any weight. On the other hand, they list lead bullet loads for all other powders (Unique, Bullseye, Herco, BE-86, Red and Green Dot for 45 ACP. Obviously Alliant has a reason. I think it is because Power Pistol is a high energy, performance handgun powder, used for heavy bullets and upper velocities. That is the opposite of what you want with lead. You can ask Alliant: http://www.alliantpowder.com/questions/default.aspx They do answer emails, and will send you loads if appropriate. __________________ ............

February 12, 2019, 02:40 PM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...close to the hardball load..." You do not want that. Said 'hardball load' uses a jacketed bullet. What you need is a cast bullet load. Alliant doesn't put those on line for some reason. Might be one in their manual though. "...pick up some plated bullets..." Those are not jacketed bullets. Plated bullets use cast bullet data. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 15, 2019, 05:43 AM	#11
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	If you want to shoot cast lead in handguns and have options for powders not listed on the powder mfg. website with cast lead bullets get yourself a copy of the Lyman Cast bullet manual #4, there are loads using Power Pistol for 200 up to 230 gr. loads in the manual. I picked up 4 lbs. of Power Pistol a couple years ago for $30 at a sale and have used it in my cast lead 45 ACP loads with Lee and NOE cast lead bullets with excellent results in both my Hi Point 45 carbine and Ruger P90 handgun. Below is one of my targets from the carbine using the NOE 220 gr. RN HP bullet I cast from 50/50 and PC, the other is the Lee 200 gr. SWC. The bullet will actually run around 230 grs. without the HP pins installed but I much prefer the HP version. 8 shots at 30 yds. 10 shots at 30 yds. As far as plated bullets you can run the Berry's plated bullets at normal 45 ACP velocity as they are rated to 1250 fps. __________________ The Reloaders Network discord Channel https://discord.gg/Nafuzht

February 18, 2019, 07:48 AM	#12
J.G. Terry Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2014 Posts: 577	Call Alliant also check out Lyman Call Alliant: I kinda got curious about Power Pistol and 230gr. cast bullets. Personally, I'd go with something on the order of Unique. I cannot see any benefit of using PP with 230 cast bullets. My favorite for 200 and 230gr. bullets is Bullseye for target loads. Also, I'd check out Lyman's data in recent editions of their loading manual. I have called Alliant and gotten help for their powders. Guy spent some time but came up with the data. Give them a call. If the combination of PP and 230gr. bullets won't work it will come from the source. __________________ Intentionally Antagonizing Another MemberInsults and Ad Hominems Last edited by J.G. Terry; February 18, 2019 at 07:49 AM. Reason: SOS+P

February 10, 2019, 11:38 PM	#3
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	2 suggestions, if you know another loader maybe you can swap that powder otherwise pick up some plated bullets or RMR jacketed bullets are also inexpensive and use it up.

February 11, 2019, 10:33 AM	#4
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Carmandy, I agree with both previous posts. At least, in principle. As you stated yourself, Power Pistol and lead bullets is "not the ideal combination." And if you can somehow change the combination, do so. For whatever reason, if you can't change your bullet/powder combination - and here's where I deviate a little - it may be possible to load decent ammo with your combo. Yes, Power Pistol is a high energy, high performance propellant (I love the stuff - one of my favorites); and that doesn't bode well for what you're doing. But one of its positive characteristics is that you can turn it down and it still seems to run consistent and clean - at least, better than most of its intermediate burn rate contemporaries. Do your own research, but it appears from what I have gleaned, starting in about the 5.5 grain range should be a decent starting point. QuickLoad yields very modest pressure numbers at 5.5. That said, I'd still recommend - like the others - to make a change; either the propellant or the projectile. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

February 11, 2019, 05:55 PM	#5
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	I have searched on this, and here's what I've saved. Note that one is "Alliant per TFL." These are all for 230LRN and Power Pistol. PP/6.0 Start Alliant per TFL PP/6.5 MAX Alliant per TFL PP/6.1 Start 829 fps per Lee #TL-452-230-TC PP/6.7 MAX 927 fps ditto 6.3-7.0 Lyman 49 per net PP/6.5 = hardball per net

February 12, 2019, 07:10 PM	#8
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	*"...pick up some plated bullets..." Those are not jacketed bullets. Plated bullets use cast bullet data.* Interesting in that I always seem to get the response quoting Berry's FAQ or Xtreme which states to use lead or jacketed data of the same weight with the implication that bullet material is irrelevant and you can use either one.. Some of those arguments have become pretty heated over the past few years.

February 14, 2019, 12:06 PM	#9
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	My 2 cents-----------I like faster powders in the .45. WST, Bullseye, 700X, etc. I normally shoot 200 gr cast RN. RN because I also shoot a 625 revolver. 200 gr cast SWC in Bullseye. I have shot 230 RN ans 225 TC cast, the faster powders always seemed more accurate to me. You may not get 850 with WST but I think you can with Bullseye.

February 19, 2019, 03:13 PM	#13
dogdoc Junior Member Join Date: May 24, 2004 Posts: 14	Power pistol is my pistol powder for lead bullets in 44 spy and 44 mag(midrange loads). Tons of data out there. Just look. Much data in handloader magazine . Great publication. You can buy single issues in digital form. Just find a recent one handloader number 310 October 2017 has much data with power pistol and 230 lead. Google it! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk