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Old November 17, 2018, 04:33 PM   #1
Roland Thunder
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Need a new powder

I have been using Win 231 and HP-38 for 45acp. I also have used Bulls Eye quite a bit. Went to the store where I get most of my reloading supplies and the guy that orders all the powders doesn't work there anymore. So, they didn't have any of the powders I mentioned above and don't plan on getting any, anytime soon. They did however have Winchester WST and Auto Comp. They also had Universal and some other ones I have never heard of. Which, if any, of the 3 I just mentioned would be most similar to Win 231 or Bullseye
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Old November 17, 2018, 05:26 PM   #2
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For .45ACP you cannot beat WST. I am and have been using it for years to load midrange .44mag, .45ACP to whatever I want and getting by on 9mm but there is darn little data on 9mm.

So far I have found nothing cleaner for any of those 3. I like W231 and have BE but IMO WST can't be beat for .45ACP.

I am trying W244 to see how it does on the 3 calibers above but that is still a work in progress. So far, so good tho.
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Old November 17, 2018, 06:11 PM   #3
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There are some combinations for which WST beats 231 and some for which 231 beat WST for top velocity. So, purpose-wise, they seem to be a good match. For economy, WST appears better as you use less of it for each foot per second achieved. I've not tried it myself, so I can't speak from experience.
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Old November 17, 2018, 06:26 PM   #4
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The only one of your three that I have shot is WST. As k4swb says, WST is great with 45ACP, but no way would I consider it similar to W231. I use HP-38, the same powder as W231, and I also use WST...sometimes. I like the smell of burning WST, very peppery, but it is much faster than W231 in my experience. It needs to run closer to full charge, at least in my guns, as anytime I try to load lighter I leave a lot of unburned powder. I’m still testing it out...somewhat. Since I like my other powders better I tend to use them, instead.
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Old November 17, 2018, 06:44 PM   #5
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I should add that I using loadon the lighter end of the posted range for 231/HP38
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Old November 17, 2018, 07:36 PM   #6
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I'm a big fan of WST for 45acp. Pushing the 230 RN's to about 845 fps out of my FNX45T
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Old November 17, 2018, 07:44 PM   #7
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WST and Universal are both good powders.

Of course, you could always order some in in the powder you really want to use. Just buy 8# jugs in 2/case quantities, add in some primers so the hazmat/freight bill is spread out.
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Old November 17, 2018, 08:36 PM   #8
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I have no personal experience with WST, Auto Comp, or Universal. But from a burn rate standpoint, WST is clearly the best choice of the three. It is the most similar to W231. Auto Comp and Universal are more in the intermediate burn rate range - like Unique or HS-6. It would seem they are likely better suited for the more modern (and higher pressure) semi-autos - 40 S&W, 9mm, etc.

If I was in your situation, I would focus on how I am going to get more W231 or Bullseye. Both are thoroughly proven for working great in 45 ACP; and you'd be hard pressed to find a better propellant than those two.

On the other hand, I have discovered some excellent propellants out of desperation . Speaking of which: By chance, did they have AA#2?
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Old November 17, 2018, 11:08 PM   #9
Roland Thunder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_C_S
Speaking of which: By chance, did they have AA#2?
In fact, they did. I have used it before for 9mm and really liked it. I've never tried it for 45acp, maybe I will.
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Old November 17, 2018, 11:26 PM   #10
74A95
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Roland, what bullets are you using?

If you're into light loads with light weight JHPs, here's an article on loads used by Bullseye shooters:

http://www.shootingtimes.com/editori...-shooter/99418
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Old November 18, 2018, 12:17 AM   #11
Roland Thunder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 74A95
Roland, what bullets are you using?
I normally use plated (Xtreme) 230gr RN or 200gr SWC
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Old November 18, 2018, 08:43 AM   #12
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For your stated bullets, and i'm guessing for range use mostly, i've done good with Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, Vitavhouri 340 (i think it was).
For my 185gr carry ammo i'm using Silhouette.
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Old November 18, 2018, 03:41 PM   #13
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Just an observation from the article and usage by many here. It is interesting to note how the powder brand name Bullseye, has come to be substituted for noun, bull's-eye (which is how Webster's dictionary spells the name for round scoring ring targets and, by inference, for the type of competition that uses them). Methinks some clever marketer at Hercules back in 1913 foresaw the inevitable confusion of the name of the powder with the name of the sport, forever linking the two. It seems to have worked, as Unique is the only older smokeless powder I can think of that is still around after more than a century.
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Old November 18, 2018, 05:01 PM   #14
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Personally, I didn't have very good luck with WST and 230grn bullets, compared to Unique. I recently switched some of my pistols to a 200grn bullet, and I test-drove WST, again, with them... and was impressed. It's a fight, now, between WST and BE-86... but I still have over 2.5# of WST to burn up, first.
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Old November 18, 2018, 06:33 PM   #15
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When Bullseye disappeared during the great powder depression I made a list of all the powders that might could be used to load 45 acp and other handgun rounds with cast bullets , I put it in my wallet and every time found one ...bought it. All the following can be used and work well.

Bullseye....nothing really better than Bullsye but :

Red Dot
Promo
Accurate #2 (I like this one)
Tite Group
Titewad
HP-38
W231
Clays
IMR700X
N312

Keep the list with you and buy what you can .
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Old November 18, 2018, 06:49 PM   #16
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I can't help you with the original list.


BUT: I just boght my second 8 pound jug of Alliant Promo. Its Red Dot economy version. Red Dot load data is used by weight.

Gets 45 200 grain lead up to cronographed 929 fps. I use it in 38, 44 special, and 9mm. Works for all. Similar but not the same as Bullseye.

Not super velocity. Just look up some Red Dot recipes in older manuals.

8 lbs purchased loaclly for $129.00. Can be procoured from th big powder distributors.

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Old November 18, 2018, 09:23 PM   #17
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WST would be most similar to HP-38 and Bullseye being right in between them on the burn rate chart.

I'm new to WST but I like it so far. Very bulky and it meters great. It seemed a bit slow for light loads with the 185 grain bullets, but still did better than HP-38, not quite as good as Bullseye. Should be perfect for 200's.

I'm not a fan of Titegroup anymore because it burns so hot and the tiny charges, but I never had a bad load in 45 auto with it, always accurate.

Universal did not perform well for me in light loads, but does fine in full power 230 ball.

Vihtavuori powders are my favorites. N310 is a superb powder for light loads with 185's and 200's. N340 is great with 230's, both are super clean burning (no leftovers) and meter perfectly.
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Old November 18, 2018, 09:27 PM   #18
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Lets add Ramshot Zip, and Competition to the list..

Vitavhouri makes great powder too, just a little pricey($38) when compared to $25 for anyone else.
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Old November 18, 2018, 10:29 PM   #19
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I'm an advocate of VV N340. Powder Valley Inc sells the 4 lb for $104 when I bought it last. I think it is maybe $10 more now. Does great in 45 ACP, 9mm, 38 Spec and others.
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Old November 19, 2018, 12:11 AM   #20
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I explicitly use HP38 (basically 231) and Titegroup. 4.9 for 230 gr cast or FMJ, 5.2 in both powders for Hornady XTP hp, Nosler and cast 185gr.. All shot from an ol P90 Ruger but 4 inch groups all day long freehand at 10 yards.
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Old November 20, 2018, 06:44 AM   #21
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VV 320 or WST.
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Old November 22, 2018, 11:54 PM   #22
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I'm a huge fan of titegroup and Clays for 45 ACP. Both are great powder and shoot lights out.
One caveat to Titegroup, you can double charge it super easy so have your reloading skills up to snuff and look close at every load.
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Old November 23, 2018, 01:11 AM   #23
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When powders started getting expensive and/or scarce, I burned a pound of WST as a potential replacement for my favorite .45 powder.
It worked OK, though I thought it was pretty dirty compared to either N320, or the powder I subsequently adopted, Hodgdon Clays.
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Old November 23, 2018, 09:21 AM   #24
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Check out the Vectan line of powders sold from Graf and Sons
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Old November 23, 2018, 10:04 AM   #25
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Quote:
Accurate #2 (I like this one)
Ditto.

Don
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