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Old December 4, 2018, 11:28 PM   #51
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I figgered a 230 gr. bullet at bout 1,000-1,100 fps from a 45 ACP will do quite well...
ok, now I have to ask, what .45acp gun and load is giving you a 230gr at 1,000-1,100fps???

inquiring minds want to know...
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Old December 4, 2018, 11:53 PM   #52
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1000 fps is not difficult with the right powder, even at standard operating pressure.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...e-45-acp/99214
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Old December 5, 2018, 08:00 AM   #53
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keep in mind barrel length is going to play a substantial role in your actual measured fps velocities. I load 9mm 124 gr for my 16" bbl Uzi carbine and my near max handgun loads yield about 1310 fps. Uzi's need a robust load to cycle the heavy bolt . I strongly suggest a chronograph if testing handgun caliber loads in rifle barrel lengths.
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Old December 5, 2018, 09:37 AM   #54
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ok, now I have to ask, what .45acp gun and load is giving you a 230gr at 1,000-1,100fps???

inquiring minds want to know...
Quote:
1000 fps is not difficult with the right powder, even at standard operating pressure.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...e-45-acp/99214
If you note the article you quoted, even the author there ceded that fast loads of that 230 gn bullet gives some stout recoil that should be managed with upgrades to the firearm. He used a 1911 with a compensator for his testing.

Which is fine, if you set up a pistol to handle the load all is well. But don't be fooled into thinking that a "super powder" that will give you that velocity in safe pressure limits is perfectly fine for your standard pistol. Pressure is dangerous and can blow up firearms. Recoil impulse, even when the pressure is safe, can beat up firearms and shorten their lifespan (sometimes by a great deal). This is why I gave up my .45 super aspirations. I like good triggers. A prudent upgrade to shoot .45 super is a heavier mainspring to help slow the slide down. Heavier mainsprings invariably adds to trigger pull weigh, like it or not. So I decided I liked my sweet trigger more than an extra 100 fps.


Further, there are many loads that will safely give you 900fps with a 230gn .45 projectile... especially if you shoot lead. This loading range is a good balance of power and firearm longevity, IMO.
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Old December 5, 2018, 10:41 AM   #55
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Plus, the author of that article is not good with numbers. He's claiming that going from a load of 13.0 grains to 14.2 grains will increase velocity 10.3% and pressure by only about 6%. So either he has harnessed free energy or he's way off. Basically, with the same 5" standard 45 Auto test barrel length, the dead minimum the pressure will increase is as the square of the ratio of the velocities, which would put it at 22,485 psi. It goes up in proportion to the square of velocity because when you double velocity you halve the barrel time, to the pressure has to accelerate the bullet to twice the velocity in half the time, and that takes four times as much pressure, and four is the square of two. But that simple calculation assumes the ratio of the peak pressure to the muzzle pressure is constant, but in reality, peak pressure climbs faster than muzzle pressure. QuickLOAD, after adjusting the powder parameters and seating depth to meet Ramshot's measured pressure and velocity, and then raising the charge weight to 14.2 grains, does, in fact, come very close to 1078 fps (it gets 1083 fps), and puts the pressure at 23,957 psi. That's probably about right.

The recoil calculation is off, too. QuickLOAD puts it at a whopping 15 ft-lbs and change. I don't think the author used correct muzzle gas velocity. By way of comparison, a 9 lb rifle in 30-06 firing a 150-grain bullet at 2870 fps using IMR4320 has that same recoil energy. Great fun one-handed, I expect.
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Old December 5, 2018, 11:57 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
ok, now I have to ask, what .45acp gun and load is giving you a 230gr at 1,000-1,100fps???

inquiring minds want to know...
My load of CFE for Pistol under a RMR 230 FMJ, and not max, will give me that velocity in my pistol caliber carbine. We were talking about a pistol caliber carbine, weren't we?
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Old December 5, 2018, 01:52 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Unclenick View Post
The recoil calculation is off, too. QuickLOAD puts it at a whopping 15 ft-lbs and change. I don't think the author used correct muzzle gas velocity. By way of comparison, a 9 lb rifle in 30-06 firing a 150-grain bullet at 2870 fps using IMR4320 has that same recoil energy. Great fun one-handed, I expect.
If you use 4000 fps for the gas velocity you get 14.7 ft lbs of recoil.

If you use 1.5 times the bullet velocity for the gas velocity, you get 11.6 ft lbs of recoil. SAAMI uses the 1.5X factor for handgun ammo.
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Old December 5, 2018, 02:04 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Unclenick View Post
Plus, the author of that article is not good with numbers. He's claiming that going from a load of 13.0 grains to 14.2 grains will increase velocity 10.3% and pressure by only about 6%. So either he has harnessed free energy or he's way off. Basically, with the same 5" standard 45 Auto test barrel length, the dead minimum the pressure will increase is as the square of the ratio of the velocities, which would put it at 22,485 psi. It goes up in proportion to the square of velocity because when you double velocity you halve the barrel time, to the pressure has to accelerate the bullet to twice the velocity in half the time, and that takes four times as much pressure, and four is the square of two. But that simple calculation assumes the ratio of the peak pressure to the muzzle pressure is constant, but in reality, peak pressure climbs faster than muzzle pressure. QuickLOAD, after adjusting the powder parameters and seating depth to meet Ramshot's measured pressure and velocity, and then raising the charge weight to 14.2 grains, does, in fact, come very close to 1078 fps (it gets 1083 fps), and puts the pressure at 23,957 psi. That's probably about right.
I don't see any claim of the pressure at 14.2 grains.

Here are some old manuals with pressure listed with Enforcer at different charge weights in the 45 Auto that you might find useful for your calculations. They suggest that your Quickload calculations are off quite a bit.

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre.../Ramshot_2.pdf

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre.../Ramshot_3.pdf
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Old December 6, 2018, 07:53 PM   #59
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I considered a 9mm carbine, but after some thought I figgered a 230 gr. bullet at bout 1,000-1,100 fps from a 45 ACP will do quite well...
Quote:
. We were talking about a pistol caliber carbine, weren't we?
He didn't say carbine, so that was why I asked.
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Old December 7, 2018, 01:58 PM   #60
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I believe the OP stated a 9mm AR15. All/most of the 45 ACP data I see is tested in a 5" bbl. My carbine has a 17 1/2" bbl so I figger 1,000-1,100 fps is reachable without going over max., but I haven't shot any over my chrony yet...
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Old December 7, 2018, 09:21 PM   #61
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My carbine has a 17 1/2" bbl so I figger 1,000-1,100 fps is reachable without going over max., but I haven't shot any over my chrony yet
Who makes a 45acp AR upper ? I've wanted a 9mm upper for awhile but a 45acp sounds even better . If I were to build one would I need a 458 socom upper receiver to have a large enough ejection port ?
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Old December 8, 2018, 10:25 AM   #62
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I have a Hi-Point 45 ACP carbine. Appears crude, but it gets excellent reviews and has been flawless in it's performance. I have a "Just in Case" load of a 230 gr. FMJ over an upper charge of Bullseye that gives me approx 825-850 fps and will feed in any 45 ACP I have. Works quite well in the HP carbine...
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Old December 8, 2018, 08:46 PM   #63
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Who makes a 45acp AR upper ? I've wanted a 9mm upper for awhile but a 45acp sounds even better
https://www.maconarmory.com/
Give Rudy a call at Macon Armory. He put together a DI 45ACP upper for me with magwell adapter and magazines with last round bolt hold open. Plus he did a 9mm blowback for me as well.

CMMG does complete guns with radial delayed blowback in both 45ACP and 9mm as well. Not just uppers though. my 9mm pistol from CMMG is an awesome range toy.
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