The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 26, 2011, 09:22 PM   #1
tomykay12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2010
Posts: 12
1851 confederate navy from taylors

Hi. Just ran across this deal at Taylors for 160.00 w/ xtra cylinder. Probably old news, but wondering if anyone has one of these. Are they seconds, or something like that? I totally get the brass frame limitations, and thought this might be an inexpensive light load shooter for friends that would like to try handgun arts, old style. What do you folks think of this piece, thanx, tk
tomykay12 is offline  
Old June 26, 2011, 11:18 PM   #2
arcticap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2005
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 3,076
If they were truly factory seconds with known defects then they would be obligated to reveal it just the same as if they were "refurb's".

Maybe there was an over stock or they're old stock and they want to move them out.
Being .36's, the brass frames aren't quite as susceptible to as much wear & tear as the .44's brassers.
It's a price rollback and the current price of the extra cylinder alone is $55 at Cabela's.
They probably ordered more then they could sell, or they're competing with Cabela's, or Pietta gave them a special deal for buying quantity and/or for being a large distributor that's trying to compete. So Pietta wants them to continue ordering and selling their guns. The U.S. is Pietta's biggest market, the world economy is slow and Pietta wants to keep their people working.
Maybe Pietta is trying to make up for some of the other defective guns that they pass along as 1st quality due to poor inspection and quality control.
That doesn't mean that these guns have any more defects than average.
Buying any gun, any brand at any price carries a risk of receiving some kind of defect no matter how small. And we all know that some expensive guns include their share of real lemons.
AFAIK Taylor's accepts returns at the buyer's expense. So the buyer loses the cost of shipping both ways if he doesn't like it.
But as far as the price goes, I don't think that anyone is selling a current brass model any cheaper considering the value of the extra cylinder.
The offering is a good deal and a way for them to round up some new customers.

Last edited by arcticap; June 28, 2011 at 11:34 PM.
arcticap is offline  
Old June 27, 2011, 11:22 AM   #3
DG45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 904
I bought one. I like it. Mine locks up nice and tight. I've only shot it 12 times though, so, maybe I'm like the guy who jumped off the bridge said, "so far so good".

Whatever else it is, the gun is seriously good looking. Nothing's as cool looking as an old cap and ball Colt, and IMHO the brass frame adds to those looks.

However, all the Italian Colt replicas have their issues, and I think having a brass frame is the least of them. Read some of the stuff written by Larsen E. Pettifogger, and stuff written by a poster on this forum named "enyaw". (See enyaw's posts of June 12, 13, and 16 on a thread in this section of the forum entitled "1860 Army Tight Cylinder" and you'll get my drift.)

I figure the free extra cylinder that came with my gun will cover a lot of these sins.

Right out of the box, the only problem I've had with the $160 Pietta 1851 Model Colt "Reb" I got from Taylor's and Co. is getting the wedge out so I could clean the gun. I had the impression that I'd be able to push that wedge out with my thumb. WRONG! That wedge was almost impossible to dislodge. I finally beat it out with the plastic handle of a screwdriver to where I could get vicegrips on it on the other side and by pushing on the gun with both feet while pulling on the vice grip, it finally popped out. (I used a paper towel folded up for several thicknesses to protect the wedge from the teeth of the Vise Grip).

Getting the wedge back in wasn't a piece of cake either, but I was finally able to get it started by hand, and then to tap it back in with the screwdriver handle to where the spring caught on the other side.

I've done this twice now. Just as difficult the second time. So much for my idea of using a second cylinder as a 19th century style speedloader.

All in all though, I think I got a great looking Colt replica for the money and I expect to get a thousand dollars of fun out of it. I think it's certainly worth what I paid for it.

Last edited by DG45; June 27, 2011 at 11:27 AM.
DG45 is offline  
Old June 27, 2011, 11:30 AM   #4
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,947
You're driving the wedge in too far. It should just be flush on the back side on a new gun.
Hawg is offline  
Old June 27, 2011, 11:46 AM   #5
tomykay12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2010
Posts: 12
taylors

Hi. Spoke with them on the phone, and these are not seconds or refurb, just overstock. The cylinders are NOT engraved, as shown on the website. Inexpensive way to add a .36 to the collection.... Maybe..... Kinda like the 1858 5 1/2 .44 at cabelas though. It 's moving down the page, uh oh, seems like Sunday nite they change the ad. Torn, torn....best, tk
tomykay12 is offline  
Old June 27, 2011, 01:40 PM   #6
DG45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 904
I don't think I could have done a lot better than a $160 Colt replica that came with a spare cylinder, however, its not my only gun or my only BP gun. I also have a 44 cal Pietta version of a 1858 Remington New Model Army.

Of the two guns, I don't think there's any doubt (then or now) that the Remington 1858 was a better, more advanced weapon than an open top Colt, and despite all that I've read about Colt's being better balanced, the grips being more ergonomic, etc. I can't see it myself.

The handle of a .44 cal. 1858 Remington NMA fits my hand much better than the handle of a 36. cal. Pietta replica of a 1851 Colt Navy model does. (My little finger goes right under the butt of an 1851 Navy model.) Don't know how the 1860 Colt Army might feel, but I think they have larger handles.

The Pietta replica of the .44 cal. Remington 1858 New Model Army (with an 8 inch barrel) weighs a couple of ounces more than the Pietta replica of a 1851 Colt Navy Model does, but the Rem NMA actually feels lighter to me.

Best of all, the Pietta Remington 1858 model points to target better than any revolver or pistol I've ever owned, black powder or otherwise. That may not be true for everybody, but an 8" barrel Remington NMA is the perfect point and shoot gun for me. It sounds crazy to say an 8 inch barrel feels "handy", but it does. And of course the top strap makes the Remington a much stronger gun than the Colt,and unlike the 1851 Colt navy, it's relatively easy to change cylinders in the remington gun. All around better.

However, the 1858 Remington was pretty much a Yankee gun (except for those that were "liberated" by Rebs) so if you're interested in Confederate authentics, the Colt models are probably what you want.

Besides, the Colt Navy model has an allure all its own (no more beautiful gun ever made than a Colt Navy), and really reflects an earlier generation of gun design than the 1858 Remington.
DG45 is offline  
Old June 27, 2011, 02:42 PM   #7
ZVP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2009
Posts: 1,102
I'm sure this revolver is just an overstock item aqnd actually a great deal with the extra cylinder!
Far as the gun being a .36 caliber, chances are that your propellant loads will be lower due to the caqliber and you probablly could get by wit 15 to 18gr charges and get good power.
I have a .44 caliber, Brass framed Colt copy that has held up to quite a bit of shooting with 20 gr charges.It's still tight and shows no signs of weaqr.
ZVP
ZVP is offline  
Old July 3, 2011, 02:23 PM   #8
Hardy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 709
8 months ago+/- Taylors offered dealers an 1851 steel 36/c traditional style Navy w/spare cylinder. It was pristine and action/balance was near perfect. It came in a Pietta box (w/ Patterson photo on box). It sold. I called them back to order another but they discontinued The prices are going up now. Look at Cabellas site for rems--they are up at least $20.00. OK -back to the brasser---I bet it came in a Traditions box or Pietta? You did the right thing---Italy is about to go on vacation for a month. Most 99.9% of my friends here don't care about the box these guns come in. Pietta guns that come in Pietta boxes and Traditions normally will cost more than if they come in Cabella box. You probally know why.

WBH






WBH
Hardy is offline  
Old July 3, 2011, 09:09 PM   #9
DG45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 904
I don't understand the box thing. Is that significant? The 1851 brass-framed Pietta replica of a .36 cal. 1851 Colt Navy model that I bought for $160 from Taylors & Co. a month or so ago came in a Pietta box with a picture of a Colt patterson on it. The spare cylinder that was part of the deal came in a small white Pietta box that was inside the other box. Significance?
DG45 is offline  
Old July 3, 2011, 09:49 PM   #10
arcticap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2005
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 3,076
Traditions is an independent Pietta importer that offers their very own 1 year limited warranty on their revolvers. They sell to the general public as well as supply many large gun distributors and gun shops across the country. Other sellers may have their own return and satisfaction policy but do not offer any one year warranty even though they sell many of the same Pietta models that Traditions sells. If a retailer sells a Traditions revolver then it comes with the 1 year warranty. But if it's not from Traditions then it's simply not covered.

Quote:
One Year Limited Warranty
Traditions warrants this product to be free of defects in material or
craftsmanship for one year from the date of purchase and will repair or
replace, at its option, without charge, our product which is returned at
the owner’s expense to Traditions. Please enclose a full explanation of
the specific problem with the returned item.
Traditions will not be responsible for damage to the finished gun or
to any of its parts, as a result of careless handling, improper loading,
corrosion, neglect, misuse, alteration or damage to parts. Incidental or
consequential damages and those caused by improper packaging for
shipping, are not covered by this warranty. Damage to metal or wood is
not covered due to the inability of Traditions to control its use and
storage conditions.
This warranty will remain in force unless any of the following is
determined by the Traditions Customer Service Department:
1. Use of any propellant other than black powder or Pyrodex®.
2. Use of any propellant charges in excess of those recommended in
these Traditions shooting instructions.
3. Modification of component parts from their original configuration
as they were shipped from the factory.

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/cm...ver_manual.pdf

Last edited by arcticap; July 3, 2011 at 09:58 PM.
arcticap is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 01:07 AM   #11
DG45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 904
Got it! Thanks very much. DG
DG45 is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 05:41 AM   #12
mykeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,772
Piettas are not collectable so the box has no significance.
mykeal is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 05:54 AM   #13
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,947
Quote:
Piettas are not collectable
Hardy seems to be of the opinion that they are and that Traditions gets better guns than Cabela's. At least that's the way it seems to me.
Hawg is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 05:57 AM   #14
mykeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,772
Yeah, I think maybe you're right. But to answer DG45's question, the boxes are not significant. To most of us.
mykeal is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 01:15 PM   #15
joyrock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2008
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 153
I just ordered one. I hope it will be here later this week. I don't live very far from them. When I was at the ShotShow, they had a booth and were selling them for 175~. So I'm guessing thats really close to there cost? I need to get a mold for the 36 cal. Any good ideas? What size is the 36 anyway?
__________________
Oleg Volk is my hero!
joyrock is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 01:19 PM   #16
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 5,175
I like...

...The Lee .375 mold. It is an aluminum mold which means two things.

1. It comes up to temperature very quick
2. It casts a spruless ball

It is also about the least expensive mold on the market.

Some folks like a .380 ball. .375s work for me but I am very limited in the way I shoot.
__________________
Doc

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 02:00 PM   #17
joyrock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2008
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 153
What do you mean, `I am very limited in the way I shoot.', if I might ask?
__________________
Oleg Volk is my hero!
joyrock is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 02:24 PM   #18
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 5,175
JR

I never shoot for competition...In fact since I left the Navy (1994) I have never once shot with another person present. I had a deputy sheriff walk up one day and I just stopped shooting until he left.

This limits me in two ways.

1. Shooters learn a lot from one another during the process. The fact that I shoot alone means that I have cut myself off from that form of learning.

2. This also means that I shoot a good bit less than most of guys one the forum. I try to get about a hundred rounds every two weeks.

I also have about thirty two revolvers and I try to shoot several each time I go out. So I don't really get accustomed to one revolver. That is not important since I don't do competitions shoots. I also don't do re-enactments. Just not interested.

So shooting just a little means that I can't really say that I work up loads.

I shoot consistently but I have a tough time making changes in this or that and watching the effect of the change.

I have taken a new job which will give me more time and I have found a place to shoot which is only forty minutes away. I think I might be able to get out more often, but I will still seek deliberately to shoot alone.
__________________
Doc

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 02:34 PM   #19
krazykat
Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2011
Location: central florida
Posts: 44
like you doc, i like to shoot alone...i think i learn more that way.

too many distractions at the range.

but since i live in a congested area here in st. petersburg i can't just go
out to the backyard and let 'em fly.

have to do the range thing.

i envy all those who can just go out in their own yard and shoot when
ever they like.

one of these days i'll have my own little place out in the country
where i can shoot as much as i like.
krazykat is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 03:48 PM   #20
Hardy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 709
Well, I don't think I'm wrong since I'm a retailer that sells these. The boxes do make a difference. Of course Cabella sells good guns but they buy them in bulk to afford a cheaper price. The guns in Pietta/traditions box were not bought by Cabella and most serious bp shooters (that come in shop know) assume they are better quality. Not always though. No, Piettas are not collectibles. Anyway not yet but who knows down the road. The ones in Pietta box/w Patterson pic might be if they ever will be. I heard some guys from uberti went to Pietta and the last few years they are much better. I used to order the 199 Pietta Rem from Cabella and had a conversion cylinder for it. bWe sell 2 a month and the cylinder costs more than the gun. Now Cabella offers them for 20+/- more. They have gone up. Most of our guns are bought from individuals and or ordered thru Taylor and Ellett Bros. And some of the wholesale price on some are as much as Cabella. Not defending buying from Cabella. But in my dealings, if Taylor has one -it will be better
Hardy is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 04:04 PM   #21
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 5,175
KK

In point of fact, my new job is just up the road from you. I am a department Chair for Saint Leo University. I will be staying in Virginia with an office here but will travel to Saint Leo about once per month. Have an office in the School of Business in FL as well.

We are looking for property too.
__________________
Doc

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 09:17 PM   #22
Hardy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 709
I've bought a few guns on this thread and anyone that bought from me got a fair deal. I hope!?

OK, in 1985 I saw an ad for an American Flyer train set. I had one and it was all packed away w/tracks and all /perfect almost/ The buyer asked me if I had my original box. Well-no. He didn't want it:barf:

Since Pietta is selling so many guns--the guns w/Pietta box will be in more demand. I almost guarantee unless our country keeps going like its going and not somehow rescued:mad

WBH
Hardy is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 09:26 PM   #23
bprevolver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 141
Schneider & Glassick replica

The brass frame revolver that Taylor's & Co. has (as long as they last) for $160 is made by Pietta. They are a special run in .36cal. since Pietta usually only makes these in .44cal. with a rebated cylinder. This .36cal. with a plain cylinder is a very accurate replica of the Confederate Schneider & Glassick. If you are interested in collecting replica revolvers this is the best deal I have seen in several years, and probably the only replica Schneider & Glassick available on the new market today.

The Schneider & Glassick is a very interesting revolver, both the originals and the replicas. I am posting an article about this revolver on the RPRCA web site later this week. Collectors might find it interesting.
bprevolver is offline  
Old July 5, 2011, 07:37 AM   #24
joyrock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2008
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 153
I would love to shoot by-myself. The stuff I could do. Most..., all the time I go shooting with friends. That means I have to look out for them, and hope they don't shoot somebody. If I can shoot by-myself, then I can get some long-range in, like 500 yards with a 22LR.

Kat: I used to live in Largo........all those years ago.
__________________
Oleg Volk is my hero!
joyrock is offline  
Old July 5, 2011, 08:28 PM   #25
Hardy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 709
You are right BP

And, no, you can't shoot a box except the gun it came in.

Pietta box #1/ Traditions box #2 Cabella box#3

I think I'm gonna get that special 36 for 160 Taylors is offering.

WBH
Hardy is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08868 seconds with 8 queries