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Old June 23, 2013, 01:31 AM   #1
Join Date: August 19, 2011
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Ruger American rifle, sniper?

I picked up a ruger american rifle in 30-06 a while ago for a good general purpose rifle. I plan to use it for hunting deer and elk but after having it and carrying it around a while I'm really starting to like the idea of using it for my primary (glock 23 backup) when confronting trespassers on the property when distances in field of view can be as much as 800-900 yards.

I've fitted it with a redfield "revenge hunter" 4-12 scope with mil dots out to 600 yards that have proven to be very accurately placed. Ordinarily I'd be on the side of people saying "how can you justify self defence at 600 yards?" but on the last day of deer season 2 years ago I learned how, on very well posted private property mind you, even while wearing more than the required square yardage of hunter orange in a well lit open area my father and I were fired upon by two trespassers with semi automatic rifles. 4 rounds were fired at us all landing within 10 feet of us over the course of about 30 seconds. The closest whizzed past my fathers ear. We didn't have a visual but I fired my .300 savage into the dirt to communicate that we were human beings after the first shot and STILL got 3 more. We didn't see them until they fled over a hill and out of view. I genuinely believe that our lives were deliberately being put in danger and I feel confident in my ability to convey that to a jury if ever put into the situation again so 600 yards can and sometimes is a distance at which one could justify a self defence application of a firearm.

Getting back to the point however, I confront trespassers on a fairly regular basis, maybe about 1 or 2 a month. Currently I carry a Ruger mini-14 with american eagle .223 in 20 round magazines. It's fitted with a 2.5-10 simmons. My question is as follows; for life threatening situations requiring the use of lawful lethal force between point blank ranges and 800 yards (keep in mind for the ranges of 0 to 50 yards I have the glock 23 so don't let those ranges alter your decision too much) would I be better off with the scoped ruger mini-14 in .223 or the ruger american in 30-06? Thanks in advance
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Old June 23, 2013, 03:31 AM   #2
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Me thinks you're walking a fine line.
Get in touch with the authorities.
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Old June 23, 2013, 05:53 AM   #3
Pond, James Pond
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Seconded. Potentially, very thin ice and very cold water.

If you have not let the police know yet, do so:

Firstly, a crime has been committed: there is definitely trespassing at the very least and, more importantly, the way you described it, attempted murder!! Especially when they shot again, after your initial warning shot.

Secondly, if you plan to act as you do, this event on record could go a long way to setting out the grounds of your defence for why you might eventually decide to shoot at someone half a klick away!

Personally, I think it a bad idea, but it is your land and your hide: at least CYA by telling the police exactly what happened and ask for their input.

If they say "if it happens again, shoot back...." well, you know more or less where you stand...
When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic.
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Old June 23, 2013, 06:21 AM   #4
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There is no way in hades can you justify 600-800 yards as self defense anywhere in this country.

No where in this country is deadly force condoned for trespassing.

If something was to happen, you can bet both in civil and criminal proceedings this "Ruger American Rifle, sniper" post will some how show up at trial.

Just thought I'd get this in before the close.
Kraig Stuart
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
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Old June 23, 2013, 06:39 AM   #5
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if you use a " Hunting" rifle for self defense the lawyers are going to use that against you saying you went out "Hunting" for trespassers to shoot at, from your post it sounds as though you have a real bad problem with trespassers and Im going to guess poaching as well, id first suggest getting in contact with your local game warden and tell him/her what is going on and give them your permission to set up stings on your property, once word gets out that violators are getting busted on your property it is likely you will see a decline in the amount of trespassing on your land.
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Old June 23, 2013, 07:36 AM   #6
Spats McGee
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I have some serious doubts about anyone's ability to convince a jury that a someone 600-800 yards out from the Defendant (because that's what the shooter will be) posed an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm. I'm not sure how you plan to "confront" trespassers at that distance, but long and careful thought about this plan is warranted, to say the least. This plan sounds like a short trip to prison, maybe even death row.

Now let me put on my Moderator Hat for a moment. We do not advocate illegal activity at TFL. The odds of "confronting a trespasser" at 600 yards in a legal manner are vastly outweighed by the odds of such a confrontation happening in an illegal manner.

Accordingly, closed.
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.
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